I know it's not really about the phone, but I'm curious what you think of Zune Pass. I have it for my Zune HD and I love it, and my friend has it and he's a voracious music listener. There are some holes in the selection, but on the most part I think it's a nice service.

I agree about the software whole-heartedly, though. I hate it. It's very pretty for the most part, but it's entirely form over function. I'm constantly running into little things that bug me.

I also know from using the Zune HD that the wireless syncing is pretty damn cool. I wish Google would do that for their music content, but I suspect they haven't because they're waiting to launch their music service. I bet Apple beats them to the punch, though...

It would be great if Apple addressed this. However there is already a solution on iOS for syncing podcasts on the move, the Podcaster app. It even has scheduled downloads and push alerts when new episodes are available.

It isn't the most stable app though, it does crash on me occasionally.

The downside of Podcaster for me is lack of integration. I just checked their latest version, and it still seems to silo the podcasts in it's own storage area instead of using the iPod area (not sure if it even can). It's also lacking AirPlay support, so I can't play a podcast on my home audio setup easily. With my short commute these days, I've been more dependent on the ability to play a podcast at home for a bit before heading out the door, and the iTunes syncing including playback position makes this convenient.

I do like the app concept though, as it's similar to the Google Listen that I used on the Captivate.

Microsoft has just announced it's killing Zune-specific hardware to concentrate solely on software...

Yikes! I wonder what this is going to mean for me down the road. I'm sure my Zune will remain supported (or at least I HOPE).

It's too bad, too. I think the Zune is flat-out the best MP3 player out there (I'm talking dedicated devices). It's quite beautiful hardware. Too bad MS was just too far behind in the category and the category simply died.

Heretic.

Empeg FTW!

It's a shame that with so much effort put into the Zune, it seems that promoting it and advancing it as a viable music platform was done so half-assed, like MS has done with everything else in recent memory. They seem to really be trying with WIndows Phone, and I think that's where the Zune software component will live from now on. If they're smart, they'll release new hardware down the road with the same software - it will be more than the Zune ever was since it will support all the same native apps the current phone platform does.

They have a fantastic opportunity right now that it's shame they're missing out. There doesn't seem to be anything worthwhile with Android on it in the non-phone portable media player game. At least nothing that can touch (no pun intended) the iPod.

My apologies! Of course I meant portable players. (Sorry, Rio)

Yeah, MS really put almost no effort into this one. They finally released incredible hardware, then didn't back it up with much marketing.

But really, the star in the Zune ecosystem is the Zune Pass. I'm hoping that lives on for a long time, I really can't think of consuming music any other way...

Did you ever try a Rio Karma? The iPod hardware is (IMHO) better, but for software the Karma beats any iPod hands down. Yes, the Touch has far more capabilities, but for playing music the Karma was as much better than any other portable MP3 player as the empeg was better than other in-car players.

tanstaafl.

Yeah the Karma was the only one that had insert and append. Why can't anyone get this right ?

I thought that would be brought up. I suppose it's hard for me to argue, not having owned one. No, the Zune does not have things like insert, but sadly the Karma is a little outdated at this point, and hardware-wise you can't tell me the Karma stacks up with anything today.

For the time, I'll agree that the Karma was great, but I stand by my assertion that when it comes to dedicated [portable] MP3 players, the Zune is hard to beat. It has its problems, but it's a great device.

But nobody wants dedicated MP3 players anymore, and that's understandable. I think MS is going the right route here, and it was only a matter of time before they killed this thing off.

Tell that to iPod Touch customers, which is as dedicated an MP3 player as Zune could have been.

I disagree. It is not a device dedicated to playing MP3s. Just because you take the phone out of the iPhone doesn't mean that you're left with JUST an MP3 player. The iPod Touch does a lot of things really well, and it's a great device, but I completely disagree that it's a better music player.

The Zune was technically designed to do some of the same things as the Touch, I admit. It has a browser and it technically has "apps," but these were never the forethought of Microsoft or the people buying the devices. I know that sounds like an excuse, and I guess it is, but I still feel like for an MP3 player, the Zune is pretty much as good as it gets because music was the first thing that was thought about, and it does this better than anything I've used. The hardware is also a lot more compact than the Touch.

That is why I said "as dedicated an MP3 player as Zune could have been" rather than "as dedicated an MP3 player as Zune".

Hadn't realised that the Zune HD was smaller and lighter than the iPod Touch, but then I've never seen one in person, which says a lot about how many they sold in the UK !

Very true. I'm certainly not defending how well it was marketed, just how good the device its self is.

I'm not sure I understand the distinction you're making, though.

You connected Zune's end with people not wanting dedicated MP3 players anymore.

I was suggesting that they could easily (relatively) have made the Zune HD less of a dedicated MP3, like the iPod Touch that still sells well.

I agree with Andy. They could have back-ported the rest of the Windows Phone OS to Zune, turning it into a full-fledged PMP and current app platform.

The announcement hasn't been made officially yet, so who knows, maybe they'll spin something new. There's likely a lot going on behind the curtain to influence this decision as well.

Do they keep pouring money into a brand that's not making the required returns? Do they keep this non-phone version of the platform out of the hands of their OEMs?

I can see MS moving to a more traditional (for them) software and spec model for the PMP market. Simply not having a PMP is a very foolish move. The iPod has helped the iPhone gain traction and it plays a large part in the overall iOS landscape.

... I see the "Zune" name deisappear in the future. I think MS will simply incorporate the software Zune concept into WP7 completely, and rename Zune Software into something more related to Windows Phone 7.
And, I don't see this necessarily as a bad thing, provided GUI and effectiveness of Zune PC software (which I do prefer to iTunes in most respects) and Zune device software (which I too consider better than its iPod conunterparts) is preserved/improved.

I just hope that by moving entirely into the WP ecosystem, hardware remains good enough in terms of audio quality - because yes, even there I find my Zune 120GB better than my iPod Classic, and so does a Zune HD I've been using for a while.

I have not listened to any of the WP7 devices currently in the market, and I don't know how they sound. Maybe they're good, maybe not. I hope some good hardware is out there, now or at some point in the future, especially by Nokia or Sony-Ericsson. Or whoever, provided it sounds good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqTYI55K1eo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

The guy at work with a Zune thought this bit was really funny.

It is.

Haha, yeah, I remember laughing at that when it aired. Though the iPod they're using appears to be an old black and white one

Well, that too, alone, indeed sold more than the Zune, I suppose

I was always impressed by that. While the physical size isn't all that different, the weight is. I'm guessing the difference is due to the OLED screen and lack of dedicated separate backlight, along with a lower capacity battery from having a more power efficient display. The fact that Microsoft could make a device with the industrial design quality normally associated with Apple was impressive.

Even the newest iPod Touch 4th gen is heavier at 3.56 ounces. Thinness has dropped to 0.28 inches (7.2mm), though height increased to 4.4 inches. Makes me wonder what a newer Zune HD would have looked like.

It's really a shame Microsoft is slow on some of these things. They do still have the ability to compete, but by the time they arrive, the party has moved on.

On the initial topic of the thread, I'll try and compile a bit of a summary soon. I ended up only using the phone as my primary device for a week before needing to return to my iPhone. I knew up front it wouldn't replace my iPhone, but I did appreciate a fresh look at another platform, and do see promise for people who don't currently have smart phones.

Still no official statement, but this comment on a forum.



Translated to English: The Zune hardware is dead.

In my opinion, the Zune was dead on arrival when the featured color was brown. And not a nice chocolate brown, either. More like '70s rec-room fake wood paneling brown.

Sorry, I have to always counter this stuff. OLED is *not* power efficient in many scenarios - in fact, it's ONLY a win when it's mostly off (ie, lots of dark pixels). I've no idea how the OLED marketing guys managed to get this one into the collective consciousness, but it's a total lie.

If you're displaying white content (eg web pages), then you'll find OLEDs are up to 2x higher power than an LCM. That likely accounts for why the Zune UI (and actually, a lot of android UIs) use black backgrounds.

I've found battery life to be pretty darn good, and if you've seen shots of the Zune/Window 7 interface, you can see how heavy it is on the black pixels Perhaps that's the reason?


I'll just point out that the Zune HD was a pretty different device.

I think initially it was touted as a big win due to the lack of backlights back when CCFL was still the primary LCD backlight mechanism. CCFL backlights were made even more efficient since the initial OLED hype, and LED backlighting and regional dimming (on TVs) helped too. Of course the OLED side won't point that out.

Wikipedia has this to say about it:

I'm sure the marketing teams have always glossed over that white part, leading to many (including myself) to only remember the general power efficiency argument without quantifying when.

From my experience, The Zune HD hardware did try and keep things black as much as possible. Windows Phone 7 does too, but to a more limited extent. It's probably much like Android where a mixture of LCD and OLED screens are out there, so there isn't as much focus on optimizing just for OLED.

Battery wise, looks like the Zune HD does indeed have a smaller battery then the iPod Touch 3rd gen.

... which is why I actually think they do not really WANTED to, sadly (and "Insanely" :)) enough.

As I was saying before, I have used the ZuneHD for a while and I've been impressed on how light it is, among other things. Unlike any mobile device I've owned, with the exception of the Nokia 6310i, it is something you can put in your jacket pocket and completely forget about. My current, old and almost dead, Palm Treo 750 is a brick compared to that. Also the Zune 120 previous generation is a brick compared to that. As is my iPod Classic, or as is the iPhone 4 (which at least is a remarkably beautiful and beautifully done piece of hardware).But yes, the Zune HD beats them all in that regard.

Interesting... I too always assumed oled meand lower consumption, always.