To me it would seem like a good move to standardize (at least for the US) on the UK layout with minor keycap changes.

...

I really can't stand that janky return/enter key on the Apple US keyboard.

You do know that I wasn't trying to single out all UK keyboards in general. I'm talking about production for other countries in Europe as well and Apple products mostly. As you can see from the attached image, their UK keyboard isn't very much like the UK keyboards elsewhere and in fact doesn't contain so many changes from the US keyboard that they couldn't use it as a base for that country.

Besides, you can't call a rectangle janky. It's next to as simple a shape as you can make. Clean.

I normally wouldn't recommend US-anything, but the standard Mac keyboard is quite clean in line. No key spans more than a single row. Like-modifiers are the same size on the left as they are on the right. The physical number of keycaps is suitable to be relabeled for multiple locales.

I do notice that Apple are using the same key layout as found on the UK keyboard for most European countries. I thought there was even more key variation here (not keycap labeling, but physical key placement). I hope I'm not offending anyone by considering the UK as part of Europe.

Not paragraph (¶), but section(§). Also, FYI, '¶' is known as a pilcrow.

You're correct, of course.

Been looking into this a little more, seems the modern setup is mostly a difference in standards organizations. The full keyboard layout article had quite a bit more information on the differences. US layout is an ANSI standard, while the UK one is an ISO standard. I'm not finding much on the history though. The ANSI layout seems to be derived from the common typewriters, but I'm not finding a similar link for the ISO side.

The Apple differences are also strange. In the US, a PC and Mac keyboard is nearly identical, with the main difference being a swap of where the alt and command/windows keys are.

I definitely prefer the larger enter/return key on UK keyboards as I tend to hit that with the side of my little finger as opposed to pressing it straight on with the tip. Not sure it would be as easy for me if it was only on one row of keys.

This is the kind of huge return key I used to use back in the day... Although my keyboard didn't look like it had been recently run through a mud pit like the one in the picture.

I think that style enter key is a hold over from certain electric typewriter keyboards.



Here is something google found.
http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/kyb03.htm

I expect that the key layout is largely based on IBM's PC, XT, AT, and Extended AT keyboard layouts. For whatever reason, they designed the UK Extended AT keyboards (in '86) to have the same basic layout that UK PC keyboards have now, and the same is true with US keyboards.

Interestingly, having a backslash/vertical-bar key between 'Z' and Shift was a feature of the PC and XT keyboards.

Makes sense - if there is an American (US) National Standard, and an International Standards Organisation worldwide global standard, of course the American national one wins...

Umm, but the keyboard being used in Europe (whether or not it is an ISO standard) was created in the US for US computers. It's on Wikipedia in the link Tom posted and it's in the vast document Glenn linked, multiple times.

What we have here are simply multiple iterations that at some point maintained divergent paths. Because IBM and others weren't above ping-ponging back and forth between the various designs over the course of the early years.

Looks like this may be it Glenn, mostly appears to be IBM trying different layouts. Makes sense to me, with how involved they were with the early personal computer market, along with the electronic typewriters.

(and sorry about the thread derail, origins of certain keyboard setups have interested me for a while, mostly due to appreciating the modern Mac setup of modifier keys.)

For Roger's initial question, still not really sure what to suggest. The main issue seems to be full sized function keys. The closest seems to be the Logitech UK offerings.

Here's hitting all your points except for a variation on the PgUp/PgDn cluster.

http://www.wireless-computing.com/products/wireless-desktop-keyboardmouse-R18/

But it's US-style layout.

I point out the lip just under the cursor keys. A good palm rest would be needed.

You might want to try the GeekHack forums. They are keyboard aficionados. While the site is mostly geared towards mechanical keyboards, I bet there's someone there that will know about what you want.

Oh, also, how about a previous-generation Apple wireless keyboard? There are going to be some minor variations in the layout, but it might work for you.

Bitt, the keyboard is the Apple Wireless Keyboard Pro and I believe it's three generations back. It seems like you can still get it through third-party resellers. At least the US layout version. It also appears to be the only thing I've seen that actually hits every single point. Which is surprising.

Look at that... Here's a UK version on eBay UK (@ £23 plus postage):

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Apple-Bluetooth-Wi...c#ht_1291wt_907

I still use mine, it's the best keyboard I've ever had, although before I had this I was still using an old Cherry one that came with a 1989 Olivetti server.

Cheers

Cris

Cherry, good you mentioned that, it made me remember this.

Google for G83-6104 Business Keyboard Wait that has a cord, never mind.

But this is wireless. Still has the smaller function keys though.

What you want is available. The trick is to find someone who will sell just one.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/332323783/wireless_keyboard.html
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/345365836/2_4G_Wireless_Keyboard.html
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/407736367/2_4G_wireless_standard_keyboard.html
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/342342489/Hottest_wireless_keyboard_mouse_combo_SY.html

Damn, if I had made that Hong Kong trip I could have probably scored a few samples.

http://www.dinodirect.com/vol-2-4ghz-wir...&DinoDirect

Here it is.

Really? The Apple keyboard has pretty lousy tactility. It's like pushing your finger into wet mush. At least there's a decent amount of travel, and there's a curve to the key layout.

None of those has a UK layout.

Somehow I missed that UK layout was a requirement.

Suggest googling images for "wireless keyboard uk layout" Scan the images and checking web pages to see if a lead can be found.

http://www.priceinspector.co.uk/d/349813...-compare-prices

ok?


http://cpc.farnell.com/trust/16594/wireless-keyboard-mouse/dp/CS18107

You didn't read the fine print... Those keyboards are shown actual size. You have to type on them with toothpicks.

Nice google-fu, not only did you pull up UK wireless keyboards, but they seem to be the same brand (ODM/OEM) as the previous US versions.

Searching google images was the trick.

Still not UK layout.

Here's a wireless keyboard with proper UK layout. It even has media keys. I suspect that it might not meet your "doesn't suck" requirement, though.