The hard disk just went bad in my Rio Central for, I think, the third time. I've actually got two centrals, one of which was an alpha prototype, and I've been doing parts-swapping and replacing hard disks as needed, but I think it's reached its last legs, and now, I want a replacement solution for a streaming household media server. And since the Rio Receivers only could ever connect to the Central, if that's going out, I'm going to have to throw those babies out with the bathwater too. It's a sad day, I know. But I figure this would be a great time to get a thread started about how I could go about replacing this system that served me well for many years. I think there has to be something that exists that can do more capabilities these days.

Here's some ideas about what I *think* I'd like to do in this area, all are open for discussion. Does anyone make a solution that does all these things or a subset of these things?

1. I'm thinking that, whatever I do, I want to do a server/client solution, where I'm buying both ends of the equation.

2. I want it to stream not just MP3s, but many types of audio/video media to the clients.

3. The head-end does not have to rip CDs nor output video or audio. The head end could just be a dedicated file server, with some caveats as listed below.

4. I tried going the "Dedicate an old PC to the task" route, and did not like that. The PC turned out to be a problem, was noisy so I had to hide it away somewhere, and never really ended up doing what I needed it to do.

5. My ideal device would be something like a NAS box, where it's just a glorified hard disk with an ethernet plug in back. But in the box should be...
- Lots of storage for video/audio files. Perhaps expandable storage.
- Web UI for managing those files.
- Windows/Samba file share access for adding/removing/editing files.
- Acts as a Windows Media Server so that my Xbox and Playstation can stream from it.

6. Then I would want player client boxes, much like the Rio Receivers. I would want the clients to:
- Stream audio from that server, using their own built-in UI screen (i.e., without needing a television UI).
- (Not necessarily in the same client box) Stream Video and audio with HD television output and television UI interface.
- Infrared remote control that I can use my Harmony One with.

Does such a system exist? What do you guys recommend?

Does "Windows Media Server" just mean CIFS/Samba, DLNA, or what?

I use a Synology NAS running Squeezebox Server. It's got built-in DLNA for sharing audio/video with my PS3. It has the web UI for managing files bit. You can poke around a demo of the user interface here.

...but I guess I should have read the "Squeezebox is dead" post first.

Hm. I'm not sure what I mean.

- No, I don't mean just a samba server.
- I mean, the thing, I don't know what its official name is...
- That you get if you install Windows Media Server on your windows computer...
- Where there are other windows-media-savvy devices on your network that will stream media from that service. Such as: The Xbox 360.
- I don't know what that's called. Is that "DLNA"?

Something to think about, I'm now thinking about........

Maybe the client end doesn't need to be Video-player. Maybe if the server can stream to Xbox/Ps3, then that's enough, and maybe all I really need is audio-player clients. I have two TVs in the house and they both have at least an Xbox connected.

You could try Open Media Vault. I'm running it on an HP N40L ProLiant microserver, which is a really nice little box. Very quiet, and you can put up to 5 Sata drives into it.

OMV supports a load of media serving and streaming services, as the name would suggest, and there's probably what you want in there to connect to most playback devices.

HP seem to more or less constantly be running a cash back deal on the thing, I got mine after the rebate for about £130. That's not bad for a little VERY well built server with a 250GB drive, 2GB of ram, and a decent processor. I ended up installing OMV on a 20GB laptop drive I had lying around, using one of these to connect it to the internal USB port, and mounting it underneath the optical drive tray. That leaves me space for all five drives internally. It's got 8TB in it at the moment, which isn't really enough but will do for the moment

I got it doing a shutdown when it's no longer being accessed, but am having issues with wake on LAN not quite working. Other than that, very happy.

pca

I can vouch for the N40L. I bought one for a sweet price, and then decided I need to stop buying so many thing just because the price is good. Therefore, I wound up selling it to a friend while it was still en route to me.

I helped him put Ubuntu on it and he's using it to feed a Popcorn Hour (Samba shares) and I think he's also using a Roku with it now (running Plex Media Server on the N40L, I presume). I will have to ask him about it...

I've also been looking at getting a new box to hook my Drobo up to. I've been eyeing this Foxconn barebone which seems perfect aside from the USB 3.0 ports being on the front. It's even coming with a 60GB SSD through a promotion currently. If you want it out of the way, it comes with a VESA mount so you can stick the thing to the back of a monitor with the proper holes.

I've got what's probably the precursor to that (it looks more or less identical) the nt300i, as a media player box running XBMC. Very good indeed.

pca

I think Synology NAS will also work as Windows Media Server.

However, since you would be perfectly able to easily manage a full feature server, and considering inexpensive, cheap, silent hardware is available (Shuttle, or the HP N40L mentioned above, which I had never seen), I'd go that venue. You may install any OS of your choice. Linux, Windows Server, or even a plain Windows 8 pro, will be great in managing drives, RAID, Storage spaces, and you'll be able to install whatever server software you like.

As clients, Logitech ones are probably still available if you're planning to purchase now. They will surely last years, and as far as I know they are still the best option available.

Edit: I actually can't find music players on Logitech websites (I checked US and IT ones).

Logitech has cleared out all the older music stuff from their site. You can buy from independent retailers if needed.

Server: Rob's got the ticket here.

Server OS: Tony's choice.

For audio on the server end: Nothing else makes sense for someone like Tony besides Logitech Media Server (formerly SqueezeServer, etc...) They may be ending the product line but it's still "the only game in town" as far as quality music streaming also capable of serving a collection of quantity.

For Video on the server end: 2 choices, IMO.

The first is "nothing." Don't run any video streaming software at all and instead simply supply SMB/NFS/whatever shares that clients can connect to and stream from.

The second option is again back to something Rob mentioned. Plex Media Server. This will have a client requirement, but you may be able to use any DLNA client.

Now to clients...

Music: Absolutely keep this a dedicated music-only device. In other words, not a media player that would otherwise be connected to the video output of your TV. Either a proper Squeezebox or a more general-purpose device running software-based Squeeze-compatible player, such as any iOS device running iPeng. When it's not playing music you can use something like an iPad to show a slideshow.

Video: Now we're into problem territory. There's not a single solution at this time that I can recommend head-and-shoulders above the rest. The PS3 and XBOX devices can play back some content but leave a lot to be desired. Stand-alone media players all have a number of issues. You can use a small silent PC and run Plex CLIENT on it. That might be your best bet.

But you can also try the Plex app on one of the higher-end Roku boxes. Or a WDTV Live if you went the SMB route.

And FINALLY...... If you wanted an alternative you could wait around a little while longer and see about installing Windows onto that server, running Windows Media Center and then pick up one of the forthcoming Ceton extenders. Keeping with the suggestions above for music however. Ceton also has their own server with built-in tuners if you want/need that sort of thing. XBOX 360 can also act as an extender today, but again, YMMV.

Everything above except the iOS devices can work with an IR remote. iOS devices themselves make the best music remotes for operating on Squeezebox/LMS.

Oh, I'd also strongly recommend a silent PC as a client wherever you have space for it and a monitor/TV.
from it, you may simply access media via shares/smb, or you may run any media collection manager/player. As Bruno said, Windows Media Center is not a bad option, and only costs $10 in addition to the Windows 8 Pro license (relatively cheap for few months after release), for example. Or, XBMC as a free alternative, and possibly others. Also, you'll be able to use all sorts of different players if needed. I like Foobar for some multichannel tracks, and it works very nicely if you wish to connect to an Amp. Of course, a Silent PC won't work in every room.

Forgot to mention.... You can also run a software-based Squeeze player on a PC and forgo a dedicated device. It was probably out of my mind at the time because I haven't always had the best of luck with the headless software I've tried before, Squeezeslave.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet as a video/audio client is the Raspberry Pi. It can run XBMC, but I don't know if you can use a IR remote with it yet.

RPi has USB so you can easily connect an IR receiver, like one of mine, and use it with XBMC. I'm not certain the platform has enough "oomph" however to decode a wide assortment of streams. If it has to use the CPU, instead of dedicated co-processing for many of them, it's going to be in trouble.

XBMC at 1080p on Raspberry Pi, which is encouraging. Of course, YMMV.

Poked at that UI demo. Nice.

So it comes with that OS and web UI already built-in? It seems to already have some sort of media indexing service built-in to it. How does that work in terms of being able to serve indexed media to client devices?


If I wanted to run squeezebox clients, is it tough to add Squeezebox server to it? Would there be any other audio-player clients that connect to it that don't require me to install anything onto it?

The other suggestion of an HP ProLiant Micro Server is nice, but I'm thinking I'd be happier with a system where I didn't have to do any OS installation/configuration/maintenance when I got it. I'm looking for something more plug-n-play, and if that Synology box works in a simple plug-n-play fashion, then that might be the ticket.

Well the literal answer to your question is that it's a NAS, so the OS isn't "built-in" per se. Instead, it comes with an install disc that you use once you've put your drives in, and it installs that OS on those disks, after which you build your RAID array, install whatever additional packages you want, etc. But yeah, the OS is part of the package, and it's pretty nice.

There are a bunch of different Synology NAS models with different disk configurations and varying amounts of CPU horsepower; I went with the DS1511+ which offers 5 disk bays and has enough CPU to run all of the add-on packages I've tried so far.

The media stuff seems to work well. It just scans your drives for media files in whatever folders you tell it to and they show up in the PS3 UI. Not much to it.

Squeezebox server is really easy because it's one of the officially supported packages that shows up in their Package Center control panel thing without having to add 3rd party package repositories. Here's a pretty comprehensive list of the supported packages. I had to set up a 3rd party repository to get the Crashplan package, but that was pretty easy, too, and it works flawlessly.

Okay, that's quite impressive. It seems to be riding that fine line between being a turnkey NAS, and a full featured OS. It looks like they're doing that fairly well. With enough storage, I could also use something like this as a file-backup server for the members of my household instead of just a video/audio server. This could be very useful to me.

The 5-bay unit... what's it like in terms of fan/disk noise? I'm planning on replacing a Rio Central, which is relatively quiet.

If you are going to choose a NAS, keep in mind many out there have the same DLNA functions, so evaluate a few brands.

My NAS of choice is still a ReadyNAS. But knowing that some of the key (pre netgear) engineering talent has left recently has me shaky about the future. Waiting to see the impact, if any of their departure.

Almost any NAS will do pure DLNA sharing (ie, it send the file over the network to a playback device, and all decoding happens on the receiving end) just fine. You will run into some issues though if you also want to add video transcoding (ie crunching a big HD file down realtime to play on an iPhone) with most units. Most NAS devices these days are using Intel Atom processors, which do fine for NAS and basic DLNA serving needs. Some NASes offer more normal desktop class processors, so transcoding becomes a possibility.

Fan noise on the ReadyNAS side varies. The 4 bay units are noticeable if you have them in the same room, but may not be annoying depending on your tolerance. My older (and no longer sold) NV+ was the loudest, my Ultra 4 (same form factor, newer guts) runs quieter, but still not desk quiet for me. The two bay units you will notice hard drive noise more then you will the fans.

How good is Squeeze server on a NAS with a large number of files? It can be quite slow searching my collection (35000ish files) off a Vista box with 4GB ram.

It's going to be slow for things like searching and the web interface, but the software itself is more to blame than the NAS. It's already crazy slow at times doing that on fast hardware as you've noticed (I have about 40k tracks).

Using a software-based controller with its own cached copy of (some) metadata and artwork is going to dramatically improve responsiveness for general browsing/control if not for searching. At the end of the day one will spend more time listening and that won't prove to be an issue at all.

Yeah, I guess. I was thinking about having a NAS as the only 24/7 device on my home network but a modern PC isn't going to be any more power hungry, so I'll go with that.

I run LMS on a Windows system only because it's already running SageTV 24/7, otherwise I'd be running it on my ReadyNAS, which is also on 24/7 and already holds all the music.

The Windows system boots from SSD and LMS' database and all cache files are stores on the same SSD. The web interface is usable but far from fast.

I think above all else, the main thing to note with regards to LMS is that it's finicky and has always had its share of issues/bugs. Currently I'm in the process of completely wiping it out and re-installing in hopes of getting back my track artwork, which suddenly disappeared for the majority of my collection the other day. At around the same time I updated to the latest 7.7.2 version I believe.

I recently had to zap and re-install to get back "Now Playing", it started just displaying the text "Now Playing" without actually displaying the file info.

As good as Squeezebox and SBS/LMS is, it's definitely geared toward folks like us, who have the capacity and some willingness to tweak and fiddle with it, not the general public. I think Logitech has a long road ahead if it thinks they're going to change that significantly with the move to the UE brand.

Here's an oddity I don't previously remember.... I just changed the settings via the web interface to show thumbnails at 250px instead of the default 100px and it completely wiped my entire database and is now rescanning. Pretty sure I was able to change thumbnail size at will previously without any such issues, being able to confirm the change in the web UI with a simple browser page refresh.

The synology stuff also comes with an iOS app which allows browsing (and background streaming) directly from your NAS box. Unexpected but rather nice, though if it'd transcode my stuff from FLAC that'd be *really* useful

I have a tiny DS411slim, very happy with it. 4x1TB 2.5" disks, takes almost no power and is almost totally silent too.

Also, they actually offer a shell as a standard feature, and when you apply updates (painless), it doesn't blow your stuff away either.

I'm struggling right now trying to figure out what to do about increasing my NAS storage. It's either replace every 2GB drive in my current 6-drive RNP with 3GB models, or buy another enclosure and add a few 3 or 2TB drives to that. I'm leaning toward the new enclosure because upgrading drives in the original from 2 to 3 doesn't give you much extra storage and has an extremely high cost per TB - unless I can re-sell the original 2TB drives to offset the cost.

With double drive redundancy in my setup, I have to upgrade at least 3 drives before I see even an additional byte of storage.

One idea that has occurred to me recently, is to use a USB 3.0 hub and a bunch of nearly-silent external USB 3.0 "drives" -- the WD "My Book Essential" units in particular.

Our local electronics recycling depot came by a pallet load of empty "My Book Essential" enclosures, and is reselling them at $7/each. Since I have a shelf full of bare SATA drives here, I've purchased ten of those enclosures.

With a WD "Green" Drive installed in one, the thing is darned near silent. Cooling is passive -- no fans, no noise. Even purchased "new" with a 2TB or 3TB drive included, these are only about a $10 mark-up over the bare drives.

The bare enclosures do seem to work with any size/brand SATA drive, not only the WD "Green" series drives.

Cheers

Thanks for that endorsement, Hugo.

A Synology NAS seems to exist in my future. And using my existing Xbox and PS3 as my video streaming clients seems to be a pretty straightforward solution. Looks like that will be plug and play.

Now... What about music streaming client hardware stations?

They don't necessarily have to have a UI even... it could, for example, be an Apple AirPort Express. Can one of those stream the music from a Synology NAS?

I did this for a while, but decided that it was untidy and that all the wallwarts were inefficient compared to a single low power NAS box. So I got a Synology DS211. Very happy with it, but I've not used it much for streaming.

Tony, there's already a stable build of Logitech Media Server for Raspberry Pi with playback. It's a fork of Squeezeplug: http://squeezeplug.de

Of course you could just install Squeezeslave on a RBP and have yourself a super-light and cheap SqueezeBox. With the caveat that it has no optical audio output and may not have the ideal analog output. You *should* be able to get digital audio out of the HDMI port however.