I bought a used player some time back, and finally got around to hooking it up, and have run into a few problems.

Biggest concern is that no matter how I connect to my computer (USB or Ethernet) the computer apparently does not see the player. I cannot see the player in File Explorer nor in emplode. I tried two different USB cables and three different USB ports on the computer to no avail. Emplode-->Help-->About says emplode 2.0, "No player connected"

The player has an illuminated button kit installed, and I think that it is problematical. For the most part the buttons work, except that the top button has to be pressed twice to change the state of the player from play to pause, or from pause to play. This is 100% repeatable. It doesn't matter if I click it fast or slow. The first click does nothing (it makes the illuminated buttons flash momentarily brighter); then, even if it is 10 seconds later, the second click does the expected thing.

This is a Mark II player (NOT Rio branded) and the rotary knob doesn't click at all, that is you can twist it but not press it, but otherwise it seems to function correctly. It doesn't feel like a normal empeg rotary knob -- the detents are more positive, and click quite loudly when the knob is turned.

I don't have a long enough set of RCA cables handy to see if it will actually play music.

Okay, SWMBO *finally* came back home with the car, I can test the "new" player there and see if it actually makes noise. [pause 5 minutes] Yes, it does. [/end pause]

I guess that boils it down to just three concerns.

1) How do I get either of my players to talk to the computer?;
2) What is the "press twice act once" thing with the top button?
3) Why is there no "press" capability on the rotary knob?

But... Perhaps I have a fundamental misunderstanding of... something. Because my faithful "old" player doesn't show up in File Explorer or emplode either. It's been so long (more than four years) since I've done anything with an empeg except turn it on and let it play that I've forgotten what little I knew. It's been a long time since Mozart added anything to his repertoire, so I haven't felt any pressure to add more music.

So... what am I doing wrong here?

tanstaafl.

For the button issue, try adjusting the four bezel screws.. it sounds like the button/knob are not travelling freely.

The fact that your faithful player ALSO does not show up in Emplode means that the problem isn't with the player, it's with the computer.

Remember that USB requires a special driver that you have to install. And ethernet requires that the player and the computer be on the same subnet. Faq entries exist on those topics, so you can dig at those a bit.

The thing with the buttons could be hardware issues with the display board or its connector.

I did that.

rioxdrv.sys

But... how to install it? I went to device manager, it shows one item that might be the empeg ("Unknown Device") but how do I tell for sure? I browsed with Device Manager down through the directories to where the emplode setup file is located (D:\Downloads\empeg Downloads\2.00 Final) along with the riohxdrv.sys file, but Device Manager wouldn't do anything with it.

Also from the FAQ: 3. The driver and the release notes were written before the existence of Windows Vista and its x64 variants. Reports are that the driver works with Vista but not with x64. If you have trouble with the USB driver, use ethernet instead.

Is this still the case? I am running 64-bit Windows 8.1.

When the player boots up, the firmware says it is version 2.01 with Mark's Hijack 508 in it.

None of the buttons/knobs appear to be physically sticking. The knob turns very smoothly and actually has a bit of play within the circular surround, and the buttons are all very responsive to the touch, with audible clicks and full "springy" returns. Besides, the buttons are the aftermarket illuminated ones, and each button press causes the buttons to very briefly momentarily extinguish and they are clearly making contact with each press. It's just that the top button requires two presses, and the knob doesn't press at all.

tanstaafl.

Remove the four bolts that hold the bezel in place, and then see if the buttons behave any differently. Much more definitive than theorizing over it for hours on end.

It is. There is no 64 bit USB driver for an empeg on Windows, and there likely never will be. Ethernet and Serial are your two options now. Roger did confirm the driver works on Windows 7 32 bit, and I'd imagine it would still on Windows 8.1 32 bit.

Okay, once again I get to put my invincible ignorance on display. Please try not to laugh too much.

1) My new computer is a 64-bit machine with Windows 8.1. You already knew that. Is there such a thing as 32-bit Windows 8.1? Or a compatibility mode that runs 32-bit on the 64-bit machine? I guess I am confused about whether 32/64 bit is a hardware thing or a software thing. It was my impression that it is strictly hardware, so I have no possible USB option with this computer.

2) As you would guess with near certainty, I have no serial port on this new computer, so that leaves...

3) My only option is Ethernet. The sum total of my knowledge about networking is that it lets multiple devices talk to each other. Somehow. With magical concepts like subnets and ports and switches and routers and... Yeah, right. In the spirit of everlasting hope, I throw myself on the mercy of the empeg bbs on the chance that someone can explain to me, in words of one syllable or less, what I need to do.

My network is, I think, fairly pedestrian.

Internet connection comes into the house through a cable modem, which in turn feeds a four-port router. The router connects to (1) my computer; (2) SWMBO's computer; (3) my color laser printer; and (4) my OOMA VOIP telephone. That doesn't leave any ports left over for the empeg, does it?

So, apparently I need at least one more piece of hardware. That's OK, I am on good terms with my local computer store. Would that be a hub, or a switch, or another router, or ??

The router is a WRT54G2, old school, I know, but from what I understand comparable in reliability and durability to your typical anvil. It is configured for automatic DHCP.

The empeg faq (thank you, Tony!) says something about having the computer and the player on the same subnet. If I can't get the empeg player talking to my computer on USB or Serial, how can I configure it for ethernet?

Oh, wait... on the player, in the "About" screen, I see:
echo ip: 192.168.0.168
echo DHCP: 255.255.255.255
echo MAC: 00:02:d7:10:02:2f

Is that information I can use somehow to set up Ethernet communication with the player?

Sheesh! Maybe I should just buy a bunch of CDs and when I want noise in the car just put the round shiny things in the slot in the dashboard and twist the round thing to make it louder or quieter.

Where should I go from here?

tanstaafl.

There is, but you really don't want it. You'd end up seeing maybe 3/8ths of your total RAM in your new computer. At this point mobile phones are making the switch to 64 bit, no need to go backwards on the desktop side.

Windows has a compatibility mode for 32 bit applications (odds are many programs you run are making use of this), but not drivers. Being that the issue is a driver issue, unfortunately no help here.

It's both. Your old system was actually 64 bit too, but you had a 32 bit version of Windows running on it. The hardware (mostly the BIOS/EFI, CPU and RAM) have to support 64 bit addressing. Then an OS also has to be 64 bit to make use of anything beyond the 32bit barrier. And finally a program also has to be compiled for 64 bit to make use of extra memory, or the new CPU instructions introduced.

You would want a switch. You don't want another router, and hubs are pretty much impossible to find these days.

My advice would be to just unplug the printer from the network, and plug that into the empeg in the rare times you need it. If you find you are doing this more then a few times a year, then perhaps it's worth adding the switch to gain another ethernet port on your home network.

+1 for "temporarily unplug the printer".

Tom already answered this question for you from a practical standpoint. But I thought you might like more clarity on this one:

In Windows 8, go to your system information screen. Either navigate the Windows Control Panel and search for System, or, move your mouse pointer to the top-right edge of the screen so that the "charms bar" appears, and then select "Settings" and then select "PC Info". You should see a screen like the one in the attached screenshot.

Notice how it says, in the highlighted area, that it's a 64-bit operating system running on 64-bit hardware?

You could, if you wanted, format your hard disk and re-install a 32-bit version of Windows from scratch. Then that screen would say that it was a 32-bit operating system running on 64-bit hardware. That would work. But then, as Tom said, the OS wouldn't be able to make use of the extra RAM installed in your system. There are also other advantages to having the 64-bit OS running. So you don't want to do that.

That is a semi-workable plan. "Semi-" only because the network plugin to the printer is not easily reachable. Looking at the Amazon prices for switches, I think I could get one here locally for $150 pesos or thereabouts, about $12 USD. And there are [rare] occasions when extra Ethernet ports would come in handy. However, for initial testing purposes, yes, just use the printer cable. Great idea! Or maybe the OOMA cable, it's a bit easier to access.

No, wait! I mis-spoke about my network. The cable modem feeds the OOMA which in turn passes through to the router. So I DO have a free port for the empeg. Theoretically, since my router is set up with DHCP, if I plug the Ethernet cable from the router into the empeg, it should talk to the computer.

It doesn't.

I am working with my "old" empeg now, a Mark II-A, Rio branded. Too many problems with the "new" player now. The "About" screen says:

etho IP: 192.168.1.104
etho DHCP: 192.168.1.1

ipconfig /all says:

IPv4 Address: 192.168.1.140 (see attached screen shot)

Shouldn't it "just work"?

tanstaafl.

It should in theory just work, and show up like this:

If not, you can click options on that screen, and I believe type the empeg IP in directly. In this case, 192.168.1.104.

My guess is that the Windows firewall may be interfering with automatic discovery. Though it's been over a decade since I've ran emplode on Windows.

I don't think I've needed to adjust Windows Firewall in a long time. Only real old versions of Windows Firewall were ever an issue.



Doug, you're right, it should Just Work based on the settings you were just showing. Double check the "Options" button in the "Select empeg-car" screen in Emplode, like Tom said. Make sure you didn't change the settings in such a way as to prevent the player from being discovered.

Another thing to check: Emplode can't talk to the player if the player thinks it's in "Car" or "DC" mode. Make sure the player is in "Home" or "AC" mode before trying to connect with Emplode.

Oh, also, Doug,

While that is quite a high quality screen shot that you posted, it was clearly taken with an actual camera. On your computer, search for the built-in Windows tool named "Snipping Tool". Hopefully it'll be there in your version of Windows, it's located in %windir%\system32\SnippingTool.exe. That will allow you to take future screen shots with a lot less trouble. You can drag to select a rectangle of where you want the screen shot to be taken, and then afterwards highlight and/or draw annotations on the screen shot (though annoyingly there is no text annotation tool). There are other screen shot tools out there which are more full featured, but Snipping Tool ships with some editions of Windows, so you might already have it.

You know, re-reading your post... Without a better idea of your network topology, I can't be certain that would work. Quick thing to try: Assuming Emplode is configured properly, can Emplode see the player if it's plugged into the Printer's ethernet cable? If you can see it there, but not when it's plugged into the router, then yeah, it's a topology issue.

Next thing: From a DOS prompt, with the player plugged into the network, can you successfully PING the player's IP address?

Sigh... and now it does. It wasn't working last night, this afternoon it is. I don't know why. Maybe I didn't let it search long enough for the connection or something. Today, after about 15 seconds of searching, it found it.

The only thing I did was ping for it at a system prompt, as you suggested. The ping found it instantly.

Then I tried, for the umpteenth time, emplode. And emplode found it.

It's sort of like when I tried to get DOOM and Quake III Arena running on the new computer. I didn't even install them, I just copied the whole "Games" directory over (only three games in it) and at first the games would load but they ran very poorly, jerky and unresponsive, and apparently had some sort of memory leak that would crash the game after about five minutes. Then, without doing anything else, they started working perfectly.

It's a mystery to me.

tanstaafl.

No need. I just use the Print Screen key on my keyboard, and it stores the screen shot into the clipboard. I paste it into Paint.net, resize it to show just the pertinent information, and save it as a .jpg or .png file.

I posted that camera shot because due to some weird mental lapse I had it in my mind that I couldn't save a screenshot from a system prompt. Of course I can, I don't know why I was thinking that.

But thanks for the suggestion.

tanstaafl.

Heh.. that sounds a lot like a problem I used to have with the empegs on our network here. Emplode couldn't find them until after I pinged them or something. The issue "went away" at one point, after upgrading the network switch or something.. I really don't remember exactly what.

Cheers

Okay, the "old" empeg is working with emplode now. So lets return to the "new" one. It's a Mark II, empeg-car branded.

I've identified three distinct problems with it.

1) It won't talk to emplode. This is probably because it is not on the same subnet as the computer.

newempeg: 192.168.0.168
computer:.. 192.168.1.1

What do I do to fix this? I need more than a generic statement about "Change the subnet numbers so they match..." I don't know how to do that.

2) [I had a dissertation about how I couldn't turn the visuals off and had no track information... then I found in the INFO menu that somehow INFO had become set to "OFF". I have no idea who could have done that! Maybe a burglar snuck into the house while I was sleeping or something]

3) The top button behaves strangely. When playing a track, the top button is supposed to toggle play and pause. It does this, after a fashion. I have to press the button exactly twice to change the mode from play to pause, or from pause to play. This is 100% repeatable, it makes no difference whether I do the double press quickly, or pause 10 seconds between presses. However..., if I am several levels down in the menu tree, the top button moves me back up with one button press per level, 100% reliably.

The player has lighted buttons that blink with each press (all of them blink simultaneously): once when the button is pressed in, and again when it is released. The rotary knob does this also, and in addition blinks with each detent during rotation, so I can see visually that the top button is not making intermittent connection.

Only problem #1 is of any great importance. #3 is there more because it's interesting than because it causes any great amount of trouble.

tanstaafl.

Let's address the networking issue first.

It sounds like the 'new' player has a custom configuration file which has certain settings messed up, including, a network configuration that is incompatible with your computer. The fact that it comes up as "192.168.0.168" makes it sound like the player's previous owner hard coded that address into its configuration file. Your goal will be to change it so that it's not hard-coded any more, and it will obtain the address through DHCP instead. This can be done via Emplode, or, by directly editing the configuration file on the player's hard disk.

Normally, you would just connect via USB to make the single configuration edit that makes ethernet work, save that change, then go back to doing everything by ethernet after the change is made because after that ethernet will work. But USB is not an option for you right now.

Available options:
- Connect via serial to make the edit. If your computer is a desktop computer, it might still have a serial port. If not, you can probably get one installed. If it's a laptop, you can get USB-Serial adapters. I'd recommend one with the FTDI chipset like this one. That's the one I'm using right now to connect to my empeg serially from my Win 8.1 computer (for times when I need serial port access).
- Temporarily change the computer's configuration to force it to a fixed IP address on the .0. subnet just to get the edit done. Then change it back to DHCP when you're done with the edit. After that, ethernet should work.

You will likely end up needing a serial adapter eventually. But for now, I'd suggest the latter path so that you can get it going quickly.

Next, the button:
- Once you have the player working on ethernet, dig into the player's config file and see if they put some weird IR-translate or other button-futzing stuff in there. Maybe there's nothing wrong with the hardware and it's just a messy config that doesn't work right.

The IP change is certainly easier. I don't have Windows 8 so I won't attempt a step-by-step. Change your IP to, say, 192.168.0.169. The gateway doesn't matter as it's the same subnet.

-jk

That worked.

I had to dig a little to change the ip setting on my computer. Control Panel --> Network and Sharing Center --> Change adapter settings --> Ethernet --> Properties --> Internet Protocol Version 4 --> Properties --> Use the following IP address: --> 168.192.0.169 --> OK

Then I could open the player with emplode. Except... there was no option there to edit the config.ini file. So, I addd the appropriate key and DWord in the registry, then I could edit the config.ini file.

I did that, changed the ip address so the third octet had a "1" subnet, saved the file, and changed the computer back to DHCP, fired up the empeg, and... no connection. Looked in the "About" file on the player, and my config.ini changes weren't there. I finally figured out that I had to re-synch the player for the config.ini changes to take effect. Aha!, he says. The config.ini file isn't kept in the player, is it? It's kept in the computer. After re-synch everything was fine.

I think the answer to the top button mystery is there also. Here's the relevant portion from the config.ini file:

[ir_translate]
PopUp0=Visual,Clock,Detail,Repeat,Shuffle,BassAdj,TrebleAdj,VolAdjLow,VolAdjMed,VolAdjHigh
Top.L=Top.L
Top.N=Top.U,null.SN
Top.S=Top.U,Pause.SN
Left.SL=Clock.S
Left.S=Detail.S
Right.S=Repeat,null.S
Bottom.S=Shuffle,null.S
KnobLeft.S=PrevVisual
KnobRight.S=NextVisual
Knob.S=null.S

I don't know what any of that really means, but I bet that the strange behavior of the top button is explained there.

It's been an interesting journey, and I learned a lot.

tanstaafl.

Yes, if you remove that entire IR_TRANSLATE section, your buttons probably will work again as you expect.

Something else you should do. Instead of making that 'new' player be a fixed IP address on the .1. subnet, you should just change it to DHCP.

[Network]
DHCP=1

That way, you won't end up just having the same problem over again if your network addressing scheme changes.

I did that at the same time I changed the subnet mask. 'Way ahead of you.

tanstaafl.

Beware of double NAT.

If the OOMA is configured as I expect, then the OOMA is actually your main Internet router. It would be controlling the QoS for VOIP in addition to providing DHCP and NAT for your home network.

The Linksys I would hope is configured to NOT provide DHCP or NAT. Otherwise you have two layers of NAT happening, which can cause problems.


That would include be my post from earlier today

Recreated the prior post from memory...