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#369272 - 07/09/2017 21:26 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: mlord]
larry818
old hand

Registered: 01/10/2002
Posts: 989
Loc: Fullerton, Calif.
Originally Posted By: mlord
I have my doubts about it working in a larger space like a stud wall cavity though.


It would probably collapse the dry wall into the cavity.

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#369273 - 07/09/2017 21:43 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: larry818]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13884
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: larry818
Originally Posted By: mlord
I have my doubts about it working in a larger space like a stud wall cavity though.

It would probably collapse the dry wall into the cavity.


Funny smile but no. More likely there would be insufficient volume of air movement within the wide cavity to draw a thread towards the exit hole.

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#369274 - 07/09/2017 22:42 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: mlord]
larry818
old hand

Registered: 01/10/2002
Posts: 989
Loc: Fullerton, Calif.
Originally Posted By: mlord
Funny smile but no.


My house, wood framed, has wall cavities that are 14" x 46". If I can draw 15"hg, that's about 4,500 lbs, I think it would break.

Originally Posted By: mlord
More likely there would be insufficient volume of air movement within the wide cavity to draw a thread towards the exit hole.


That's for sure. Use a ferret.

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#369275 - 08/09/2017 17:53 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: larry818]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13884
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: larry818
My house, wood framed, has wall cavities that are 14" x 46". If I can draw 15"hg, that's about 4,500 lbs, I think it would break.


Quite possibly. But a vacuum or shopvac won't give nearly that amount of suction. Okay, sure it will, within a 2" diameter hose. But not within a much larger volume wall cavity. Small vacs like that simply cannot move enough air volume to sustain that kind of pressure within larger volumes.

The workshop dust collector I have here, can apparently generate 15" (water) static pressure through a 6" diameter pipe. It might have a hope of damaging an enclosed wall cavity, but I'd have to try it to know for sure. I did have to reinforce the metal waste bins I use for catching the chips from it -- they were definitely trying to implode!

Still, this is a topic just begging for experimentation!

I have one more sheet of drywall to install downstairs at some point, and if there are sufficiently large cutoffs from that I will create a fake stud wall to try both the shopvac and the much beefier dust collector on.

Cheers

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#369276 - 08/09/2017 20:39 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: Phoenix42]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12052
Loc: Sterling, VA
Quote:
The Lite unit really is smoke alarm sized, and more discrete (once the blue light is disabled) then I expected, which will help with WAF and therefore placement options. This is a big win for me.

I wish I'd checked in at the start of this thread because I was about to respond to your initial post with just this observation! When one of those is on the ceiling it practically blends in.

I haven't seen since the start of this thread, but are you planning on getting a Cloud Key to manage the APs? It makes things a lot easier and you don't have to dedicate a computer to the task. You can just attach it to the same POE switch that'll power the APs.

I have Google WiFi now, but just because I wanted to upgrade to ac at a time when the Unifi AC products were still in the $250 range. Now they're so cheap!

For all of my clients with either drop ceilings or ethernet runs, I install Unifi. For the rest I tend to use Google Wifi because I'm familiar with it and I'm a fanatic as you all know. Both systems have worked well in every place I've installed them. Just last week I installed four Google Wifi units in a 5000+ sqft home and got good coverage everywhere.
_________________________
Matt

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#369285 - 09/09/2017 15:46 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: Dignan]
Phoenix42
veteran

Registered: 21/03/2002
Posts: 1383
Loc: MA but Irish born
Hey Matt, I was hoping you'd chime in as I know you've had hands on experience with the UniFi products.

Longer term I think I'll be going all in on the UniFi ecosystem and getting a Security Gateway, Switch with PoE, Cloud Key and additional access points as needed/wanted. But this is longer term for building out a solid network at our new house, I need to hold back on buying toys to save for the $$$ down payment.

I really like the Cloud controller interface, and currently don't have a system use for it, unless I shoehorn it onto a Pi, do able but for $75, or maybe I'll run it in EC2 for free for the year so I can play. I do like how it can pull info from all the UniFi devices, I do see it being usable to verify when my kids get home laugh

All in all I'm really liking the UniFi system so fair. I was considering Google Wifi, but was holding off due to many posts on Reddit complaining about missing advanced features. While I like 99% of the market probably don't need those features, it was another mark against it. What pushed me over the edge towards UniFi was The Wirecutter review I mentioned in my opening post - if a multi year old product is still giving newer product a run for the money, it is good enough for me - granted it was an apples to oranges comparison, but I was planning on hardwired backhauls not mesh.

edit I do wish they had a 16 port switch that was half PoE half regular. The four PoE on the UniFi Switch 8 60W is going to be tight #firstworldproblems


Edited by Phoenix42 (09/09/2017 15:52)

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#369286 - 09/09/2017 21:06 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: Phoenix42]
sein
old hand

Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 889
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa
Originally Posted By: Phoenix42
edit I do wish they had a 16 port switch that was half PoE half regular. The four PoE on the UniFi Switch 8 60W is going to be tight #firstworldproblems
You could use a US-8-150W

Thought I'd chime in since my controller says I have 218 Ubiquiti devices installed at the moment.

UAP-AC-LITE is small, neat and works well. It is 2x2 2.4GHz and 2x2 5GHz and the antennae in the unit are OK. I use quite a few of these.

UAP-AC-LR is a bit bigger but this is to accommodate bigger and better antennae while also getting a hardware bump to 3x3 2.4GHz and 2x2 5Ghz. The extra chain on 2.4GHz allows the LR to deal better with signal reflections and multiple 2.4GHz devices as well as going a bit faster. It's my favourite unit, I use them a lot.

UAP-AC-PRO is an interesting unit. It does 3x3 2.4GHz, and 3x3 5GHz as well as having a much beefed up processor than the other two units. Useful in high traffic areas where you have lots of clients, commercial installations mainly (hence the price jump for market positioning). Also useful when you really just need to go as fast as possible. I only have about five of these.

At home, I would only use LR units and turn the power down as appropriate to aid handover between multiple APs.
_________________________
Hussein

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#369292 - 10/09/2017 00:55 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: Phoenix42]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
I'm not looking to replace my current WiFi setup yet. Though if Apple does completely stop their Airport sales, I'll be looking for whatever the most recent thread here is to help make my decision on what to upgrade to. Glad to see the good info regarding the state of the industry can be found here smile

Thanks K447 for the info on the WiFi Explorer app, may pick that up. I'm always impressed with how well the built in WiFi tools work on macOS that I hadn't thought to look for more before. I do hope the OS tools stay decent, as by what I understand they were designed by the same folks from the Airport team that was rumored to no longer exist.
_________________________
Tom

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#369303 - 10/09/2017 19:26 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: sein]
BartDG
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/05/2001
Posts: 2564
Loc: Bruges, Belgium
They now also have the UAP-AC-HD and UAP-AC-SHD. (don't really know the difference between the two, but the first costs about $350 and the latter $550). These are MU-MIMO units, which I why I would probably consider the HD when I upgrade my system. Seems more future-proof to me. Have you got any experience with those Sein?
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#369309 - 11/09/2017 08:05 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: Phoenix42]
sein
old hand

Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 889
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa
I did forget about those, the MU-MIMO in the UAP-AC-HD is pretty sweet for a number of high bandwidth devices on your network and this is a nice upgrade from the UAP-AC-PRO. I read about the release of this and remember a huge difference being the processor(s) in the unit allowing for reliable connections to hundreds of simultaneous clients in commercial environments.

I read about the UAP-AC-SHD when they landed in the Beta Store a few days ago. Seems like effectively an UAP-AC-HD with an additional radio for real-time spectrum scanning, finally trying to match the feature set of Cisco Meraki (AMP) and Ruckus (Cloudpath and SCI). The additional radio should in theory allow some decent auto-configuration too.

No hands on experience with either of those but interested in playing with the SHD, maybe I'll get one...
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Hussein

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#370049 - 10/12/2017 20:20 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: Phoenix42]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12052
Loc: Sterling, VA
Sorry to drag this thread up. I just wanted to share that I've gone Ubiquiti in my home. The Google WiFi and OnHub were removed, and an Edgerouter X, UniFi AC LR AP, and Cloud Key have gone in their place.

It might just be a placebo effect, but the wireless feels like it functions better now. Things just feel like they work.

Also, I was able to place the AP dead center in my house. The middle of the middle floor. There was a line running to a desk area in my kitchen, and came out on the wall where you would put a landline phone (ha!). I covered that up with a blank plate, and fished a new line up the wall and out the other side into our coat closet.

Speed tests show I'm getting the full speed my ISP is sending me, and devices talk to each other super fast. My wife is able to AirDrop a dozen photos to me in seconds.

I liked Google WiFi, but this seems to work better.
_________________________
Matt

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#370054 - 11/12/2017 02:39 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: Dignan]
Phoenix42
veteran

Registered: 21/03/2002
Posts: 1383
Loc: MA but Irish born
Apologizing for dragging up an old thread, is like apologizing for sending a thread off on a tangent - both are normal around here smile

I'm glad to here you are having a positive experience with the Ubiquiti products. I only stuck a toe in the water, purchasing an AC Lite, but it sends a solid AC signal two floor away (10 year old US condo, basic materials). So between now, and move-in date I'll be adding the rest of the Unifi stack. Once we're settled I'll investigate if we need more APs.

Why did you go with the Edgerouter over the USG?

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#370057 - 11/12/2017 03:01 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: Phoenix42]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12052
Loc: Sterling, VA
The basic reason is that I have experience with the Edgerouters and I don't with the USG. Also, the X gives me five ports to do with as I please. I just have one as wan and four as lan. The X is also half the price.

*edit*
But the USG does fit into the UniFi system better. It also does all the DPI stuff out of the box.


Edited by Dignan (11/12/2017 03:24)
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Matt

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#370058 - 11/12/2017 06:44 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: Phoenix42]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3501
Loc: Guadalajara, MX
I should add that I never updated the original thread, but the campus network that I put in off the grid in Zambia is still going strong almost 2 years later. It's a mix of Unifi AC LR's, a UniFi AC Outdoor and 2 pairs of Nanobeam AC's for the point-to-point links. Also a USG. I was able to teach some of the local students and staff (who have never owned a computer, but quite bright and catch on quickly) enough of the basics to administrate it. I'm quite happy with the Ubiquiti stuff.
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~ John

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#370064 - 11/12/2017 20:11 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: JBjorgen]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12052
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: JBjorgen
I should add that I never updated the original thread, but the campus network that I put in off the grid in Zambia is still going strong almost 2 years later. It's a mix of Unifi AC LR's, a UniFi AC Outdoor and 2 pairs of Nanobeam AC's for the point-to-point links. Also a USG. I was able to teach some of the local students and staff (who have never owned a computer, but quite bright and catch on quickly) enough of the basics to administrate it. I'm quite happy with the Ubiquiti stuff.

That is so cool. Especially the Nanobeam part. I wish I had a reason to need that laugh It's great to hear, though! I've been pleased with the Ubiquiti stuff. I've talked to colleagues who look down on it but I don't really know why...
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Matt

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#370072 - 12/12/2017 14:16 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: Dignan]
Phoenix42
veteran

Registered: 21/03/2002
Posts: 1383
Loc: MA but Irish born
Thanks Matt, that makes sense. I've minimal networking knowledge, so I'll be sticking with the USG and the UniFi Controller GUI. I do wish it came with more ports, only the tiniest of environments can escape with out adding a switch.

That is impressive JBjorgen - I think that is a testament to a good code base and ease of use.

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#371056 - 01/07/2018 23:34 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: Phoenix42]
Phoenix42
veteran

Registered: 21/03/2002
Posts: 1383
Loc: MA but Irish born
Well that house fell through, due to rising costs and delays, and we've purchased a very different house. A 1930s brick house, original build for US military housing, but the base shut down in the 90s.

In any case the Ubiquiti APs (One Lite, and one In-Wall) are providing solid coverage (5gb available two floor up) from their undignified location of the basement floor. Once we're settled in (we moved yesterday), I plan to properly install these APs plus a second In-Wall unit, and will update with a coverage floor plan then. But this may take a while as things are working so well in this sub-optimal setting.

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#371058 - 02/07/2018 17:56 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: Phoenix42]
BartDG
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/05/2001
Posts: 2564
Loc: Bruges, Belgium
Just read up today on this Turris Omnia Open Source router. Based on OpenWRT and it's got some pretty beefy hardware specs. I'm very curious about this thing, but there are not a lot of reviews to be found...
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Riocar 80gig S/N : 010101580 red
Riocar 80gig (010102106) - backup

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#371059 - 02/07/2018 19:33 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: Phoenix42]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13884
Loc: Canada


Edited by mlord (02/07/2018 19:35)

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#371061 - 02/07/2018 20:49 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: mlord]
BartDG
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/05/2001
Posts: 2564
Loc: Bruges, Belgium
Thanks Mark! It seems the US is much more enthousiastic about it than the Canadians, to say the least. wink
_________________________
Riocar 80gig S/N : 010101580 red
Riocar 80gig (010102106) - backup

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#371066 - 03/07/2018 17:56 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: Phoenix42]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13884
Loc: Canada
It just seems rather expensive to me, compared with some pretty decent alternatives that can run full open-source setups, or quasi open source, if desired.

My personal fav at the moment are the T-Mobile AC-1900 routers for around USD$50 (try Amazon, eBay, etc). These are really ASUS RT-AC68U routers (identical hardware), and can be reflashed as such with minimal fuss.

Lots of firmware options once they become RT-AC68U routers, including the excellent Merlin firmware family, as well as others.

Cheers

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#371071 - 06/07/2018 12:24 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: mlord]
Phoenix42
veteran

Registered: 21/03/2002
Posts: 1383
Loc: MA but Irish born
Agreed, it is not a cheap solution.

The T-Mobile option had caught my eye - but they are not supported by RMerlin or more correctly Asus upon which Merlin is built / dependent up.



Edited by Phoenix42 (06/07/2018 14:24)

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#371073 - 06/07/2018 12:33 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: Phoenix42]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13884
Loc: Canada
I think you must have missed what I wrote: identical hardware.

Once reflashed, they _are_ genuine ASUS RT-AC68U routers, indistinguishable from any other ASUS RT-AC68U, except perhaps by MAC addresses, which can also be reflashed if it ever comes to that.

They happily run genuine ASUS firmware builds, as well as Merlin, and other firmwares. The "merlin guy" has some kind of agreement with ASUS to not promote such. I have a pair of them here (one in use, the other as a spare) running Merlin right now.

Cheers
-ml


Edited by mlord (06/07/2018 12:36)

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#371125 - 17/07/2018 02:26 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: mlord]
pedrohoon
enthusiast

Registered: 06/08/2002
Posts: 333
Loc: The Pilbara, Western Australia
Originally Posted By: mlord


They happily run genuine ASUS firmware builds, as well as Merlin, and other firmwares.

Cheers
-ml


Any idea how Merlin compares to Gargoyle? I am running Gargoyle on my router ATM.
_________________________
Peter.

"I spent 90% of my money on women, drink and fast cars. The rest I wasted." - George Best

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#371126 - 17/07/2018 21:00 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: Phoenix42]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13884
Loc: Canada
Gargoyle is a front-end/web interface for OpenWrt, which is a free, open source firmware for routers.

Merlin is an upgraded version of the stock ASUS factory firmware for ASUS routers, with what appears (to my eye) to be a more polished user interface than most other router firmwares.

It is not fully open-source though, and includes (what I term to be) spyware from Trend Micro by default. I have removed those components from my own router.

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#371127 - 19/07/2018 15:47 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: mlord]
pedrohoon
enthusiast

Registered: 06/08/2002
Posts: 333
Loc: The Pilbara, Western Australia
Thank you Mark. I am happy with Gargoyle's features and stability and your mention of the inclusion of Trend Micro has put me off any thought of switching.
_________________________
Peter.

"I spent 90% of my money on women, drink and fast cars. The rest I wasted." - George Best

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#371129 - 19/07/2018 20:54 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: Phoenix42]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12052
Loc: Sterling, VA
Please pardon a bit of thread hijacking, but I thought this might be a good place to post the Unifi network setup I just did for a home in DC. We went with a pretty beefy setup for several reasons, including their plans to rent their basement as an AirBnB.

I've attached a photo of the setup, as well as the Sonos Connect:Amps I installed for the 14 speakers around the house (just three zones for now), and the coax terminations with splitters (not pictured: 3 AC-LR access points). I'll admit, one of my weak areas is cable management, so the coax in particular are pretty bad, and I'm working on getting the other stuff neater so this isn't a totally finished product but it's close.

Only recently have I started doing 100% Unifi installs and it's pretty great. I love lighting up all of those bubbles in the UI smile I was easily able to set up a guest wireless network that used a guest VLAN with a guest user account. I'm able to restrict access and assign up/down bandwidth easily. I can even choose which APs broadcast which SSIDs so that only the AP in the basement bothers broadcasting the network for the AirBnB folks. I'm really loving the Unifi stuff and it's only improved over time. And while most of it is very affordable, that 24 port POE switch is easily the most expensive networking device I've ever procured for a home user! Anyway, it was fun.

(side note: I didn't want to put this stuff where it is)


Attachments
IMG_9548.JPG


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Matt

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#371130 - 19/07/2018 21:33 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: Phoenix42]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13884
Loc: Canada
Wifi in the corner. Basement? wink

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#371131 - 20/07/2018 03:24 Re: New house, new wifi - so many choices [Re: mlord]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12052
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: mlord
Wifi in the corner. Basement? wink

Just FYI, there is no wifi in this shot. That device on the left is the Unifi router (Unifi Security Gateway or USG for short). It's configured by the very awkwardly-placed Unifi Cloud Key dangling from the switch.

The access points are positioned on the ceiling of the basement, 1st, and 3rd floors of the home. There's extra soundproofing between the basement and the 1st floor due to the AirBnB, so I figured it would be best to double up on APs. For once, I got to get in on the design phase of this project and make recommendations for cabling runs.

*edit*

What IS awkward about this setup is that it's in the very top shelf of a dang pantry. I am quite concerned about heat buildup in this thing, which I think is going to have to get addressed at some point. But this was the only location in the whole townhome they'd give me. At least it's a large pantry, and I got them to move everything out of the coat closet which was half as wide and about one fifth the volume!


Edited by Dignan (20/07/2018 03:26)
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