Exactly!
And SB wonders why the sales sucked.
How the F#$k do you expect to sell a product thats not avaliable? it's no wonder the sales were down.

Plus what ever happend to the concept of "SB will be able to mass produce the Empeg and lower costs"
you know if they spent just a tad more time figuring out how to advertise, set up a friggin web page and reduce the cost of the units - there is no question that they would sell like mad.
I have never seen a single RIOCar ad from SB anywhere... Just those dumbass punks with headphones looking stupid at you and the logo "I'm listening" at the bottom of the screen.
So lets sum this up........
No advertising + high price + no site to buy units = Dead product.

I will gleefully sell my SB stocks now and take the loss in order to aid in sending them my personal message.
SB = Complete Dumbasses!!!!!!!!!!!!

12Gb MKII 080000516 Blue

Tanstaafl: "People are suggesting that Sonic Blue tried their darndest...."

I missed that. Who dared suggest such a thing?

Tanstaafl: "Bullshit."

Hey how come your "Bullshit" flies and my [censored] doesn't?

Tanstaafl: "In my whole life (a longer time than anybody else on this bbs, by the way) I have never seen such out and out incompetence, mismanagement, and general apathy as demonstrated by Sonic Blue."

Agreed. Sigh.

Jim

I agree with you completely. I too have bought a Mk 1, a Mk II and now a Mk IIa (after having the Mk 1 stolen).
As for Sb's purchase: They didn't buy the Empeg car player, they bought the Empeg company! Which means they got the most valuable part of the company, which is not the player, or even the code base: it's the people who created the product and the vision in the first place. As far as that goes, as long as the people behind the empeg car player are still in a position to be creative and lead the future, we all win.

In reply to:

---

I missed that. Who dared suggest such a thing?

---

Yeah, really. That was in a reply to my post but I was surely not in any way saying Sonic Blue gave an honest effort. In fact my post was quite critical of their supposed interest in the Empeg car player. I guess tanstaafl was just seeing a need to more succinctly and perhaps less political correct-ly state what a lot of us had been kind of saying, but in muted terms. At least that's the way I interpreted it.

-Tony
MkII #554

well tanstaafl, you've hit the nail right into the lid.

What sort of company goes into business and doesn't open the front door for the customers to get in?
No wonder they couldn't justify keeping the riocar line. Debts were getting older and older and there was no money coming in. There wasn't even any way to see how many customers are knocking on the door. How many posts did we have here saying, 'where can I buy an empeg?' How many times did we have to say, 'the site is here but you'll have to wait.'?
The system of ordering sucked major dick.

As you point out, emepg had a ordering system going. A freaking back ordering queue that ran into the tens of thousands!. And SBs system can only let you order stuff if it's currently in the warehouse. Are they afraid of taking people's money? Are they doing that well that they don't need the cash flow?

Rob I really don't think you need to prop up SB if they single handedly quashed the best car audio product on the market for the next 3 years. I'm surprised Hugo hasn't said much here, maybe he can't stnad it. No wonder he is going to provide guides to DIY repairs. He MUST be absolutely insensed that the baby he created has been struck down before maturing.

I cant understand the mentality. A lot of marketing types sitting around a table, looking at their latest aquisition saying inane things like, 'mm, its a bit ugly, why would i pay $1000 for something that doesn't have a plactic faux chromed face?'

I really hope the empeg team had some huge shouting matches defending their product.


on a lighter note. it lookes pretty obvious from the slight hints that there is going to be a MK3 in the not too distant future. I maintain the hope that features apearing on it and the other OEM systems will be easily supported and applied to our 'meagre Mk1 & Mk2s'

Murray
Go-Wit-Da-Fro

In reply to:

---

I already have my Outlook spell checker set to US English.

---

Now Rob, that really is selling out.

Marcus (beaker)
32 gig (various colours)

Guys... I think it's important to know that Rob, Hugo, and the Empeg guys are ALL Sonic Blue employees. So saying "Rob, you don't need to prop up SB" is disingenuous... He gets a paycheck from them, so he's sure not going to bash them on a public forum. This BBS has no official connection to the former Empeg entity nor to Sonic Blue, but he still can't belittle his employers.

And I don't think the Empeg guys would do so. They have actually shown some displeasure at some of the order fulfillment woes, but it's never bordered on bashing the company. I wouldn't expect any Sonic Blue bashing, and in this instance, it seems the Empeg team agrees with the direction, though they might be a bit disappointed in the commercial failure of the Empeg.

-Tony
MkII #554

Oh Rob, set the spell checker back to GB english. It's like you've given up your accent.

yn0t_: They have actually shown some displeasure at some of the order fulfillment woes

Agreed. This is easily verifiable on many threads throughout the BBS.

yn0t_: I wouldn't expect any Sonic Blue bashing, and in this instance, it seems the Empeg team agrees with the direction, though they might be a bit disappointed in the commercial failure of the Empeg.

No employer looks kindly upon having their employees expressing disparaging(sp?) comments in a public forum. In as much as no individual looks kindly upon such statements either. So, I must, on principle, agree with you.

It is difficult, to say the least, to accept that the empeg-car is a commercial failure. Maybe this is because we are all accustomed to observing visible signs of marketing activity in regards to products.

True enough, the empeg-car was exhibited at many trade shows, and Rob has stated that the 'Marketing Director' (I think that's the right person) was behind the empeg-car. We've all seen and read about product reviews from trade shows for items which never made it beyond the trade show. It was simply one hurdle which the empeg-car was not able to cross.

I'm not happy about it. I don't like it. I'm not required to like it. I am required to accept it. I can express my opinion about the whole situation. The fact still remains; there isn't anything to be done about it. There's lots of finger pointing going on, and, based on some of the apparently valid arguments, lots of blame to go around. Finger pointing and blaming, still won't change the situation.

"Once a woman has made up her mind that she doesn't like you, there isn't a damn thing you can do about it."

Hey what's so different between the way we spell?

Color v. Colour? (Even I use the latter now)
Syncrhonize v. Synchronise (I'm also becoming attached to the s)
[?] v. Bubbles and Squeek or Bangers and Mash? (Never figured out what these were)
Shepherd's Pie v. Shepherd's Pie ...
Crapper v. Loo (Not all that different)

Even Tony Blair seems as American as G.I. Joe lately. Man, I LOVE this guy. I think he's much more personable than Margaret Thatcher ever was.

Pretty soon, through globalization, UK, US, and even Canadia will be indistinguishable I bet. (Americans come from America, Canadians must come from Canadia, right?)


g
greg

--
Rio Car (40Gig) Blue/Red/Green/Amber Face (Looking for 2.0!)
'01 Audi A4 2.8 Quattro

I think he's much more personable than Margaret Thatcher ever was

Magaret Thatcher was a person? I thought she was a Robot.
If you listen carefully to her speaches, you can hear her hair squeeking from lack of oil.

Murray
Go-Wit-Da-Fro

Just wondering out loud here. You said the official announcement was due later this week. 2 Weeks later and nothing on the empeg web site.

Does this mean there has been any rethinking of the EOL?

Exactly!!! You asked if we would be upset if Sony stopped current production on a model of TV we liked. The answer would be NO. We would not be upset. Mainly because they still make TV's. Sonic Blue is effectly shutting down the "TV" line all together. The part of the acquisition that we all hoped wouldn't happen is here. If there was a newer model coming out then this whole thread would have been about what new features we could get by buying the new model. Luckily I got one. Luckily I got a tuner. Luckily I got a new remote. Mayby I will get v2 of the software.

I showed my unit to many people who though this was the neatest thing on the planet. Now many other manufacturers are getting on the bandwagon by producing some more featurefull MP3 units. And the king is dying. Who will be here to show them the way?

Elvis has left the building...in a body bag.

Proud Owner of MK2 080000558 - 18gb Blue

I agree. It was promised to be part of the package(at a later date). But when a product is at the End of the Line, I damn sure wouldn't pay for things that were told would be at no cost.

Proud Owner of MK2 080000558 - 18gb Blue

End of the Line

Uchum.. Shouldn't that be End Of Life?

­­______________
Edwin de Vaan

Given the generosity of the Empeg team (and I mean in the sense of the original people working on it) and the overall generosity of purpose in allowing free software updates on a low-profit item (don't forget build costs v. takeup v. overall unit profit, on total sales of 1.5k), I would be prepared to pay a hefty fee for VR if it required per-shipped instance licenses. Empeg Ltd could quite easily have charged for updates, and didn't. Even trivial amounts (say $10) would have netted a nice little sum on the basis of only release software made available so far. What if they had charged a $2 download fee per Alpha/Beta copy taken from the website, eh?

I am not honestly sure what this is worth to me. But given my tendency to show off geek toys, being able to tell my car HiFi what to do in front of my friends would reward me with serious geek points and bring me close to the ultimate trouser accident. As tanstaafl. frequently says: "Empeg: Play: Pink Floyd: Money" would have real street cred. OOoh, what a killer - is this the killer app that arrived just too late?

So damn it, I'll put my money where my mouth is - I would be happy to pay for this feature, up to the value of the unit itself.

Anyone else? Speak now - or forever hold your peace ('cos it'll be too late anyway)

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

So damn it, I'll put my money where my mouth is - I would be happy to pay for this feature, up to the value of the unit itself.

Anyone else? Speak now - or forever hold your peace ('cos it'll be too late anyway)

Well, up to the unit value would be a bit too much, but I would certainly be willing to pay, say, up to $200 for good VR implementation, even in advance (based only on Hugo's personal promise it would actually be done no matter what SB honchos think).

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

Ditto. It would take a LOT more features packed into this little box to make me double my $1200 expense. I'd gladly pay a couple hundred bucks for good (Nuance, Speechworks or better quality) Voice Reco. I'd even PayPal it straight to Hugo/Roger/Whomever even if it's not used for licensing costs.
Jason

_~= Dearing =~_
"WAY too happy about having #99."

So would I. $100-$200, no more.

Taym
_________________________
MK II BLUE/RED 12GB #923

Umm, Yes you are correct. Same result though.

Proud Owner of MK2 080000558 - 18gb Blue

I would be happy to pay for this feature, up to the value of the unit itself.

are you people crazy? VR was a promised feature on the Mk.II ! How many broken promises are we going to put up with and then offer to pay for them?

I just don't get it.

//m

The only thing that was PROMISED with the Mk2 is exactly what you paid for: The Hardware to support VR that will be implemented in software later. Sonic|Blue will supply us with this software when they feel it is ready. Right now, it's just not. We don't even know if they've picked a VR platform yet. But the software will come, most probably as a side-effect of developing the VR for other products with the same codebase. There may be a licensing fee for them to use the VR platform, in which case they would be correct to pass that expense on to the consumer. It would have been the same if the Mk2 had shipped with VR.

Jason

_~= Dearing =~_
"WAY too happy about having #99."

I don't know if it was promised but we were certainly told that the Mark II would have VR support, and I'm sure there were people who may not have purchased an Empeg unless the promise of VR pushed them over the edge. It's a huge feature for a lot of people, and it's definitely missing. I don't know if anyone has admitted they dropped the ball, but it's certainly a common gripe among MkII users.

-Tony
MkII #554

I may be wrong, but I think the Rio site claimed it had VR already. I know it claimed that it supported WAV and WMA (with no mention of having to wait a year for updated software). I love me empeg, but I agree that there was some false advertising. I think it was more on the part of SonicBlue who did not really understand the product then the original guys from empeg though. Personally I will feel a bit screwed over if VR never happens, but I am still hopeful that it will show up at some point.

-Mike

I agree with all your points. SonicBlue oversold the product based on its flawed understanding of what was implemented and what was "just on the horizon" which turned out to be a little farther down the road then they might have thought.. As usual, the marketing literature was WAY ahead of the means to produce the actual goods. Anyone who's developed software must have dealt with this.

-Tony
MkII #554

Well to tell the truth I never particularly wanted VR. Still wouldn't worry me terribly if it never eventuated. The main reasons I upgraded to a MK1 were ethernet - so I could access the thing from my Mac, and the knob. In some ways I still prefer the styling of the MK 1 too, and I never had any alternator noise problems with it - installed and worked straight away :-) (the MK2 install has needed a bit of debugging)

(list 6284, Mk1 S/N 00299 4GB blue [for sale]. Mk2 S/N 080000094 26GB blue)

The SB site never even mentioned VR; it mentions a microphone input only.

It did mention WMA was coming soon - and it was, for suitably large values of "soon"; yes, 2.0 is late but it's rather better to release something stable than a heap of junk.

Hugo

Just wanted to point this out. I scanned this from the Rio pamphlet we got at the woodside meet.

It says: "Voice recognition coming soon as a free software upgrade."

See attached.


|| loren.cox ||

let's see the rest of the pamphlet

32Gig MK2 In 2001 VW Golf TDI

This page...

says WMA and WAV are "supposed" (does anyone proofread this stuff?) and I believe it has been there in some form for months. It does not say anything about needing 2.0 or coming soon.

another page makes similar claims. There are at least two other comments on there (developer API and empeg recording listening preferences) that are exaggerated at best.

Yes, I am glad that you guys prioritize quality over speed, but some claims on that website have always bothered me.

-Mike