On AM I got this tone that disappeared once the car was "warmed up" - I was getting this slow sine wave up/down noise over the audio (hmm, excuse the rough description there).

Ooo. Ooo. I get this too. I reported it to the guys, and they poked fun at me. Told me the vaccum had leaked out of the "Valves". I actually bought it for a while because I didn't know "valve" was britspeak for "tubes".

Note that it's not the car warm-up. It's the tuner module warm up as far as I can tell. When you power off the empeg and power it back on again, the problem returns.

I only get it on certain frequencies. For instance I can hear it on AM 1530 very loud, but not hardly at all on AM 830.

I wonder if it's a Honda-specific thing. Anyone else get this?


Tony, can you please re-explain again your suggestion WRT using that power antenna lead?

Some cars have an antenna signal booster built into the antenna, which must be powered when you are listening to the radio.

Some cars have a mechanical antenna which must be raised when you are listening to the radio.

Some cars have both.

There are two wires on the empeg that can be used to power such devices: 1) The blue Amplifier Remote Activation wire coming out of the docking sled. 2) The blue Power Antenna Activation wire coming out of the tuner module's extension cable connector.

You may use either of those two wires (but not both, and do not connect them to each other) to power the various and sundry antenna devices I just listed.

The Amplifier Remote wire will be activated whenever your player is turned on. So if you use this one on a mechanical antenna, this means the antenna will be raised even when you are listening to MP3s. So you can't listen to MP3s while in the car wash. If you only have an antenna amplifier, then this is a perfectly acceptable way to power it.

The Power Antenna wire is supposed to be activated whenever the tuner is active. This is the recommended way to activate a power antenna of either type. There are some known bugs with this implementation which hopefully will be sorted out in the next software release.


Know that I have no free wire in the dash to hook this up to though - that and, for all I know, there is no such wire in the car to begin with.

It would not necessarily be a free wire. If it was a separate wire at all, it would probably be part of a harness assembly. Do you have full and accurate documentation on the harness pinouts in that car?

It is possible your car does not require or use an antenna amplifier at all. However, all of your symptoms still point to an antenna amplifier that is not being activated properly. Either that, or the antenna cable itself has become damaged/frayed, or its connection with the tuner module is not solid. Or there's something wrong with the sled/tuner wiring.

I'm not certain about this, but there might be some kind of system where the power is actually supplied down the antenna line itself. If that's the case, you would need an adapter of some kind to be fitted on the end of the antenna wire. I don't know if these are necessary on your model of car. Don't the new Volkswagens do something like this?

You do actually have the honda antenna plugged into the tuner module, right? You can also try getting a loop of wire (I forget the length it's supposed to be-- anyone?), creating your own makeshift antenna, and connecting it to the tuner module tip/sleeve and see if the reception improves. Not as a permanent thing, just to help narrow it down.

It's the tuner module warm up as far as I can tell.

Mmm-hmm! OK then. I'll buy that.

I can hear it on AM 1530 very loud, but not hardly at all on AM 830.

I heard it on 770 (WABC, New York). At one point, I moved the tuner module and I thought it momentarily disappeared, then came back. Perhaps it's me.

The Power Antenna wire is supposed to be activated whenever the tuner is active. This is the recommended way to activate a power antenna of either type. There are some known bugs with this implementation which hopefully will be sorted out in the next software release.

Makes plenty of sense. Thanks - I groked that. I still keep thinking how the original head unit relayed much stronger signals. I suppose there's a chance I might have a dud connection (careful as we were to check 'em but you never know). Still, when I moved that tuner I did get a SLIGHT change in signal strength, but it was more like the tuner was struggling than anything else. Perhaps it wasn't the tuner but a wire making better contact. That sort of thing. I'll have to check those wires one by one again. They're all hooked up via very well-crimped bullet connectors, but perhaps one isn't as crimped as it could be.

Do you have full and accurate documentation on the harness pinouts in that car?

Alas, no. I bow to the powers-that-be at Crutchfield (who supplied me with a wiring harness). All but one wire on it was used (dimmer). Of course, there must be other wires on that harness that aren't passed through to the other side. F'rinstance, the now-temporarily abandoned steering wheel remote. Oh how I long for it ... but I digress.

... all of your symptoms still point to an antenna amplifier that is not being activated properly. Either that, or the antenna cable itself has become damaged/frayed, or its connection with the tuner module is not solid. Or there's something wrong with the sled/tuner wiring.

Right. Something else I'll have to try - reconnect the original headunit and see if the reception comes back to the way it was. Just as a reality check. If not, then something's amiss, either with my wiring or elsewhere. I suuuure hope it isn't elsewhere. If that head unit works, I really want to find a problem in my own wiring, 'cause I wouldn't know where else to look!

I'm not certain about this, but there might be some kind of system where the power is actually supplied down the antenna line itself. If that's the case, you would need an adapter of some kind to be fitted on the end of the antenna wire.

Good question, and - no idea. I think a Chilton manual is still in my future. The local Honda service dept. is quite adept at not telling me anything. An example: "Do you have the pin diagram for the 2001 Odyssey wiring harness?" "Who wants to know?" "I do." "What are you doing messing with the wiring harness?" And so on ...

BTW, yes, the antenna is indeed plugged in. Good question though. That was my first thought on Sunday, that it came loose. I did re-plug it in several times, since when I did this originally (and with the extension connector) I found reception DID improve quite a bit. Or perhaps I was dreaming and it was still so-so.

Well, at any rate, I'm getting really good at dismantling the dash! That makeshift antenna idea sounds like it's worth a shot. I'll see what I can do with that.

(BTW, would etiquette dictate that I start a new thread WRT this? Or just leave it go for now?)

In other news, Nancy (um, everyone knows her as Nancy) just gave me a pile of Beatles and holiday CDs to rip. The infection. It's spreading ...

Say, I might have found the pinouts online. Or some version of them.

This is for a limited edition 2000 Honda (not an Odyssey), but the fuzzy pic of the connector looks extremely familiar to me (Paul, do you concur?). That the pic of his head unit looks practically identical to mine has me even more convinced it's the one. Can't be 100% sure, but I think it's a good bet.

Here's the chart:

Pin	Function	Color	Pin	Function	Color
1	Antenna/Remote Amp Relay	Yellow/Green	11	N.C.	-
2	12V Accessory Power	White/Red	12	N.C.	-
3	Dash Remote	Green/Red	13	N.C.	-
4	N.C.	-	14	Mute	Yellow/Blue
5	Right Rear Speaker +	-	15	Right Rear Speaker -	-
6	Left Rear Speaker +	-	16	Left Rear Speaker -	-
7	Right Front Speaker +	Green/Black	17	Right Front Speaker -	Light Green
8	Left Front Speaker +	Green/Yellow	18	Left Front Speaker -	Gray/Red
9	Illumination Signal	Red/Black	19	N.C.	-
10	12V Memory Backup Power	White/Blue	20	Ground (chassis)	Black

Hmm. No dimmer though. Just illumination. But the Crutchfield harness I have has a dimmer wire. Ehh ... maybe this isn't it, but it's got to be close.

Something else I'll have to try - reconnect the original headunit and see if the reception comes back to the way it was. Just as a reality check.
I would confirm for you that the Honda Head Unit does get much better reception than the Empeg tuner in Hondas. I noticed the same thing with my Civic install. I would suspect a power booster in the Antena that was suggested before.

I think a Chilton manual is still in my future.
In the Chilton manual I have, it does not have the pin out at all. I have only been able to fnd them online and they only talk about the dimmer wire and not much else. There are three lines listed as Do Not Use but I would love to find out what they are used for.


The local Honda service dept. is quite adept at not telling me anything. An example: "Do you have the pin diagram for the 2001 Odyssey wiring harness?" "Who wants to know?" "I do." "What are you doing messing with the wiring harness?" And so on ...
Have you tried the following: "Hey buddy, I just spent $30,000 on this piece of crap so unless you would like me to talk to your manager or better yet your area supervisor, I think you will be finding me the wiring schematics for this. Better yet, why don't you find me the Honda Electricans manual and I will buy it off you so I never have to speak to you ever again"? Seriously tho, if we need to find it out, I will swing by my Honda parts dealership and find out. They are usually really good in helping me.

That makeshift antenna idea sounds like it's worth a shot. I'll see what I can do with that.
I meant to document this before but did you know you can replace the Odyessy's antenna with the S2000 antenna? It may not help with your reception but it definately will be smaller and stronger. Check out the page with pics over at the OdyClub site.

In other news, Nancy (um, everyone knows her as Nancy) just gave me a pile of Beatles and holiday CDs to rip. The infection. It's spreading ...
Funny that. My Sig Other just game me a pile of Blink 182 to rip. Ahhh but EmpTriv must come first.

Greg

There are three lines listed as Do Not Use but I would love to find out what they are used for.

Odds are that at least one of them is related to security. That's the way it is on my honda.

Hey buddy, I just spent $30,000 on this piece of crap so unless you would like me to talk to your manager or better yet your area supervisor, I think you will be finding me the wiring schematics for this.

Threatening them won't help. Just get a service manual.

Honda Head Unit - better reception, check.

Power booster - check.

Chilton manual useless for pinouts - check. (Where did you find pinouts online?)

Giving the service personnel religion - check . Seriously, if you can locate a service manual or get info from your dealer, go for it. I will say that the Acura dealer in town is phenomenal.

S2000 Antenna - had no clue! I'll have a look. Smaller yet more powerful? Amazing. Now where am I going to find a machine screw et. al.?

I would suspect a power booster in the Antena that was suggested before.

Wait - reality check. Do you mean get a stronger antenna (like the S2000) or you suspect the Honda antenna DOES require a connection from the "Power Antenna" lead (to who knows where).

Perhaps there's something in the stock tuner that takes care of it.

(Sorry if I'm sounding dense again - doesn't this remind you of the whole crossover discussion again?)

Found this power booster ... ehhh, not automagic though.

Hey, this one reminds me of Tony's idea. So ... let's see if I have this correct. I'd connect the red cable (on this booster) to the blue "power antenna" lead, yes?

I would suspect a power booster in the Antena that was suggested before.

Perhaps there's something in the stock tuner that takes care of it.

Quite possible - that's the way it is for VW/Audis, the factory radios send power down the antenna wire. But they are aware of this and also stock an adaptor for those of us that mount an aftermarket radio...

/Michael

Hey, this one reminds me of Tony's idea. So ... let's see if I have this correct. I'd connect the red cable (on this booster) to the blue "power antenna" lead, yes?

Yes, blue to red. But if you already have an antenna amplifier on the stock antenna, ala VW/Audi, I think you'd be better off getting power to that instead - pester your dealership

/Michael

... if you already have an antenna amplifier on the stock antenna ... I think you'd be better off getting power to that instead - pester your dealership

I'll give 'em a call (prepare for "apathy unlimited" - oh man, you have no idea ...).

Ahh, right, blue to red, not the other way around (gozouta to gozinta).

Greetings!

It looks vaguely familiar. My recommendation (if you want to make this available) is to give the
pinouts of the Crutchfield adapter...

I think the antenna booster is a good idea. If there is already one in place, it would be best to
power that. Perhaps that other site will give you more information on that.

My recommendation (if you want to make this available) ...

Make what available? Oh, the chart. Yes, when I write all this down I'll note the Crutchfield pinouts/colors. I'll look when I go to install the antenna booster.

Called Honda service. After much prodding, they confirmed that there is no antenna booster in the Odyssey, that the factory headunit does the deed, and that no aftermarket part is available from them specifically. This after a few minutes of them whining "no-one's ever asked us this before, hold on ..." - you'd think they didn't know anything about Hondas.

Hmm. I just called the place I purchased the Ody at (not near here - way out of town). Wow, a lot friendlier, and more knowledgeable. They confirmed, in a matter of seconds, exactly what I found from the local service dept.

And so I ordered the part from that other online catalog.

I'm also taking it in to a shop to get an estimate on installing the tweeters in as stealthy a manner as possible. They estimated over the phone they could pull it off in about 45 minutes, esp. since we have all the parts already. They'll also tune it for me. (They've done one empeg Mk I install before so they're particularly interested to see our handiwork with this install.) They have an antenna booster too but it's the box-looking one from out of the '70s. We'll see how it goes.

OK! I'm returning the rear RF speakers and getting MB Quarts for the back (coax, I know, I know, but these will remain stealth). They're going to do the icky work of getting the tweeters and crossovers hooked up, plus hook up the antenna booster. This will take about 45 minutes, sez they. Between a store credit I have from a prior return, and the slight cost savings on the MBs vs. the RFs, I pretty much break even. Whew!

Yeah Tony, but don't forget the subtle difference between the amp. remote line and the power antenna line - the power antenna line is only powered on when you switch to tuner mode, whereas the amp remote line is on the whole time the empeg is running (i.e. not in stand-by mode). There is also a small hardware bug where some power antennas won't retract when you switch sources. This is easily fixed though.

... the power antenna line is only powered on when you switch to tuner mode, whereas the amp remote line is on the whole time the empeg is running ...

Check. I ordered an antenna booster that you plug the antenna into, which in turn plugs into the tuner module. It has a red wire that, AFAIK, I'd connect the power antenna wire to. If all goes well, I'll have an advertised 300% boost in signal strength (or something along those lines).

There is also a small hardware bug where some power antennas won't retract when you switch sources. This is easily fixed though.

Question: Could that also affect the antenna booster kicking in when I switch to the tuner?

Yes.

eg, if you are in tuner mode and do something that causes the display to go off (eg, start the engine) when the display comes back on you won't get the antenna line powered - hence you'll get worse reception. You need (on 2.0b3) to switch to mp3 mode and back in order to force the line on again.

This is FITNR.

Hugo

Actually Hugo, I was talking about the problem where some (transistor controlled?) antennas don't retract when you switch from tuner mode to mp3 mode, which is fixed by installing a resistor between the ground and power antenna lines - won't be a problem in this case though.

You need (on 2.0b3) to switch to mp3 mode and back in order to force the line on again.

OK. That sounds like a software issue though - not hardware (?). Either way, FITNR - yay! Thanks.

... some (transistor controlled?) antennas don't retract when you switch from tuner mode to mp3 mode ...

Ahh, also OK, I suspect. Two issues. As for me, my car antenna is rather stationary.

Random updates ...

The antenna booster has finally arrived - huzzah!

Talk about stealth: No box and button with this one. This is the only one I could find of this particular design. Have a look-see.

We'll install it this week, along with the crossovers and Rockford Fosgate tweeters. The 4" MB Quart coaxials arrive this week (for the back seat) as well.

Well, last Thursday I had a local shop install the tweeters and crossovers.

I specifically instructed them to make the install stealth, to not disturb any existing wiring in any way, but rather to augment it with separate wiring - that way I can easily make things "factory fresh" should the need ever arise, and to please use care with placing the wires back in the dash, keeping them to the sides and not directly behind the tray.

They pretty much didn't pay a bit of attention to any of this.

The tweeters went in, but they snipped off the AMP connectors on the existing wiring, then covered the bare wire with electrical tape.

They ran new wire from the tweeters - not to the door, as I suggested, but to the headunit area, where they proceeded to snip the existing wiring on the harness and route the crossovers through that location instead. Strike two.

They did manage to connect the antenna amplifier to the proper lead, but I still don't see any improvement. I know there's a software issue FITNR but even switching to/from player and tuner isn't helping. I'll check this a bit more closely - I have the specs for the amp unit if anyone is curious.

In the process of putting the empeg back, they crammed a bunch of the wires against the back of the sled.

While riding in the car a few days later, I noticed the left rear speaker wasn't getting any signal (the amp wiring is fine).

And, to top it all off, the floor was a mess of tiny little wire pieces and whatnot.

No, friends, there's no way I'm recommending these folks to anyone ever again. (To think they came recommended ... hmm ... looks like it was a rush job in any event. Lesson learned.)

Wow, sorry to hear about the bad experience. This is an example of why I always do my own install work.

The name and location of this shop would be helpful, so others could avoid it.

Exactly. No one messes with my car but myself.

\\Kaare

Ahh, I wasn't sure if it was good form to mention that - but then, duh, of course:

Auto Image & Security, Inc. (NJ, US) - I went to the Raritan location.

And I COMPLETELY AGREE, DIY is the way to go. I was very pleased with what Paul and I did. I knew it was done correctly, it was clean, neat, and we put a lot of TLC into it.

About the only thing I had a lot of grief trying to figure out was installing the tweeter wiring and positioning the crossovers, which is really the big reason I brought it there.

The good news is it's not dead in the water, and it is quite fixable ... by ME!

Hey, I got my installation pictures back! (Yay!)

They're BACKWARDS! (BOO!)

It's kinda funny though. (The operator was new - oh yeah.) They're fixing it gratis.

Hey, when it rains, it pours, right?

I've got to take some additional photos anyway, just to round things out a bit more.

Post the backwards ones us in the world of right hand drive will be fine with them ;)

Post the backwards ones us in the world of right hand drive will be fine with them ;)



The corrected ones are forthcoming!

Not sure if I should post this to Bugs yet or not, 'cause I really don't know if it is one. At any rate ...

I dropped in 2.00b7 and the Hijack kernel. The new good news is the power antenna lead is now kicking in!!! Unless there are some really strange weather patterns in the metropolitan NY/NJ area, the FM stations I expect to receive come in nice and strong. I admit, at least one station has a bit of far-off "noise" in the background, but that may have always been there.

Unfortunately, I'm still getting super-lousy AM reception on all counts. Now, it may be worth noting that, with 2.00b3, I know there was an issue with the power antenna lead not kicking in unless you switched to/from the player first. Only thing is, even doing that never helped. Now it's a non-issue. I go to FM and it's nice and strong. But still not in AM.

Just thinking out loud - assuming for a minute it isn't the antenna amp or anything (since it's certainly working for FM), could a similar issue WRT AM still exist (that existed with FM)?

The antenna booster claims to work with AM and FM, so ... clues, anyone? (The station I'm referring to as a test is 880 WCBS - an EXTREMELY strong signal in this area.)

The good news is it's not dead in the water, and [the MIA speaker signal] is quite fixable ... by ME!

All's fixed. Yes, there was a connector that managed to come loose (but shouldn't have - it sure won't anymore). Also got the MB Quart coaxials in the back now. Especially nice. The local shop is recommending a Kenwood sub under the driver's seat. I'll take a raincheck in any case, but we'll see what happens on that front in a few months or so.

Meanwhile, I'm reviewing all the handiwork and getting the pix ready for a little show and tell. Still need some other pix to fill in a few blanks though. Paul and I wound up starting mid-afternoon each day and the sun sets rather early (read: "not picture friendly"). But we got some good shots nonetheless. Also, there are other Honda Odyssey install pix out there that do plenty of justice to the whole thing.

What else ... hmm, that steering wheel remote looks like a fun "next project."