I wrote something along these lines yesterday, and then #$!@ IE crash ate it . Serve me right for not resurrecting or replacing my Linux laptop!

Anyway, you did not expect this old-timer to manage to refrain from adding some of his own stories, did you ?

I used to drive a long succesion of Citroën 2CVs, typically around 15 years old, bought for $100 or so. They were the most recent models, with a whooping 600ccm, 30HP 2-cylinder horizontally opposed air-cooled engines, and I once managed to attain the speed of 80mph (highway, downhill, favorable wind).

You never started a trip in one of these without few wrenches, screwdrivers and pliers, duct tape and some wire (copper and steel). However, it was all it took to repair any breakdown. I was never left stranded (not for long, anyway ) by this car.

BTW, they are still immensely popular. Take a Google search to see numerous clubs' and owner's pages.


Another example of user-repairable car was my cousin's Fiat 600. We once managed to drive it few miles with one of carburetor nozzles replaced with a stick fashioned from a twig. You would not expect such a car to be popular as a racer, yould you? Well, see photos at the bottom of this page.

(BTW, for a hilarious example of babelfish translation see this Fiat 600 club site)

Well, I now drive Renault Twingo. For me it has the same feel as my old 2CVs, but technologically cannot be more different. When you start it, first you hear whining, buzzing, clicking and whirling of various motors and servos, then you watch dozen or so self-test lamps extinguishing... The only problem I had in its 35000 miles is that occasionally, if on wet day I pass very closely to a strong radio emiter so that it is on my righthand side, one computer or another picks unbelievable data on speed of one of the wheels and switches ABS off .



(These are not photograps of my cars - I don't have a digital camera - but stolen from two of numerous club sites; I am sure owners would not mind ...)

(Aren't we good at drifting off-topic, eh?)

can you think what our american friends would make of a 2cv

Haha le deux cheveaux or "two horses." I remember reading about those in French class.

Which would win in a race, a 2CV or a Trabant? Or would they both fall apart before the finish line?

you may joke but both cars are used for racing but i think you can get the trabby to go faster as it is a two stroke. There is even a 24hr endurance race for the 2cv

Hehehe wow. Endurance race... So the cars start out new and die within the 24 hour period? :)

For a second I thought you were wanting a REAL FM transmitter for your car. I've always wanted other people to be able to tune in to what I'm listening to.

Granted the FCC closes pirate stations down all the time, but I bet they wouldn't be expecting a mobile FM transmitter. Sure the range couldn't be too great, maybe only a few blocks, but it will still kick butt.

Greg

[sigh] Remember the good old days when you could pretty much unilaterally broadcast low-powered FM? Now you have to get permission from the FCC, and you pretty much have to be an educational institution.

For a second I thought you were wanting a REAL FM transmitter for your car. I've always wanted other people to be able to tune in to what I'm listening to.

Granted the FCC closes pirate stations down all the time, but I bet they wouldn't be expecting a mobile FM transmitter. Sure the range couldn't be too great, maybe only a few blocks, but it will still kick butt.


Well, the thought DID cross my mind. I had considered doing it in my Acura, but that thing has a motorcycle battery (almost)... I'd flatline it in a hurry. It would be pretty cool at the gym... Overpower the christian 'rock' station the Y is always tuned to with.... Rob Zombie or something similar.

Now I REALLY want to do it.

None of my 2CVs had less than 200000km on odometer (before odometer stoped functioning ). I was generally replacing the whole car because that was cheaper than replacing rusted-through parts of chasis (not shell; you could drive without shell, as I did once while is was being resprayed). Today, 20 years after manufacturing ceased, spare parts are still being produced (see, for example, here or here. The car was widely used in Algeria (actually, sometimes in fifties there was a desert rally version with two 425ccm engines (one in trunk), each powering two wheels (I am not saying one axle each because the thing had independent suspension all around from day one)). You can think of it as original Willis for civilian use - simple, practical, cheap, undestuctible.

Ah, I found the picture of 'spare engine' (the 'regular' one is in front - the thing is normally front wheels driven):



Trabi would probably be faster in races, because its 2 stroke engine can be tuned up more easily. However, its durability was greatly impeded by the fact that plastic used for doors, trunk lid etc. was considered delicious by hogs (I am not inventing this).

Speaking of races, have you seen those Fiat 600 Abarths photographs I linked to? They were extremely popular among rookie drivers 20 or so years ago. They were mean little machines, similar to those Brits made our of Minis.

I posted this so that they know 2CV was not invented for that James Bond movie

whooping 600ccm, 30HP 2-cylinder horizontally opposed air-cooled engines,

Are you sure about that, Dragi? I seem to recall that the 2CV had considerably less power than that -- something in the neighborhood of 18 horsepower?

Regardless, the 2CV is a true milestone, one of the best cars ever made. I think it would not be improper to put the 2CV into the same exalted category as the Model T Ford, and the original Volkswagen. These were machines that quite literally changed the world, bringing incredibly reliable transportation to the masses at affordable prices.

I would not hesitate for an instant to start off on a cross-country trip of any duration over any terrain that any modern car could negotiate, in a 2CV. If the trip were grueling enough, almost certainly the 2CV would last longer than I would.

tanstaafl.

Well from the name, which translates to "two horses", I was under the impression that the original 2CV had 2 horsepower. Yes, two.

A quick net search confirms that my high school French teacher wasn't lying...

"The first 2CVs, designated 'A' series, had a 375cc engine and were rated at two horsepower on the French fiscal rating (hence its name 2CV or 'two horses')"

Obviously they've added more power since then, but I'm still not sure I'd trade in a good pair of blue jeans for a 2CV. :)

Obviously they've added more power since then, but I'm still not sure I'd trade in a good pair of blue jeans for a 2CV. :)

If you checked to see what used 2CVs sell for in this country (even ones in not great shape!) you'd jump at the chance to trade your entire wardrobe for one!



tanstaafl.

Are you sure about that, Dragi? I seem to recall that the 2CV had considerably less power than that -- something in the neighborhood of 18 horsepower?

Oh, they started at 12HP and less than 400ccm, but all three I owned were late model ones with, IIRC, 21kW, which would translate to 28HP (this was the 602ccm engine that went into Diane and first models of Ami6

Regardless, the 2CV is a true milestone, one of the best cars ever made. I think it would not be improper to put the 2CV into the same exalted category as the Model T Ford, and the original Volkswagen. These were machines that quite literally changed the world, bringing incredibly reliable transportation to the masses at affordable prices.

Indeed. From the aspect of affordable transportation one could perhaps add small Fiats (at least here in Southern Europe), but not from the technological one. All three cars you mention were technological breakthroughs (especially Ford of course, then Citroën). Actually, Citroën was remarkably innovative company from thirties to sixties. Both Traction Avant (thirties, front wheel drive, automatic transmission) and DS (fifties, self-leveling hydro-pheumatic suspension, electronically controlled ignition, Cd=0.34) were at least a decade before their time, but managed to force their way to the market. (There was no shotrage of revolutionary cars that never saw mass production - e.g. Buckminster Fuller's Dymaxion)

Hmm as a 2CV and GS (yup, thats the model, not the trim level) owner for a number of years, I had always believed the the "two horses" cam from the original design spec given to Andre Citroen. he wanted to create a vehicle that would replace the standard farm buggy, which was pulled by two horses, the suspension was to be good enough that the farmer could (if neccesary) drive across a furrowed fieid without breaking a basket of eggs. A slightly different design spec than that used today, but it worked!
As a point of interest, i live in WesternAustralia, and we have a "road" called the gunbarrel highway. this streaches from a point about halfway up Western Australia and travels straight across to Alice Springs (The town that the famous Ayers Rock is near) it was last graded (leveled) in the late 60's and has been used by various adventurers to demonstrate their offroad ablities. Typically it is Kms of red dust and potholes, some as deep as 4 feet. About 8-10 years ago we had a "Raid" of 2cv and Citreon enthusiests from all over the world. we did the gunbarrel, and the only vehicle that got seriously bogged was the Nissan Patrol Support vehicle!
As another point of possible interest, the 2CV in the james bond movie was actually a "production" car. it was called a "Sidewinder" it was basically a 2CV body mounted on a GS chassis and motor. They used to go like a cut cat and supposedly could take a porche at the lights, perhaps the shock factor helped though. :-)

Hmm its not that difficult to "take over" the local radio reciever with a moderately powered transmitter. just build one that runs at 10.7 MHz or 21.4 MHz and the signal get straight into the IF stage of the reciever, even if they change the frequency of the tuner, it still comes through. i have done this a couple of times to suppress unwanted noise from neighbours who used to blast the radio all the time. I ran the input to my transmitter from the output of my stereo, so whatever i was listening to came out their radio. :-) and i didnt mind how loud they put it. They hardly ever thought to change over to CD input.

hahehahe. Naughty boy.

TommyE

As ca french empeg owner, and as a Citroen Xsara owner , I am very amazed to read threads about a french car like 'la deux chevaux'.

One of their innovative product on the 'DS' that was never produced was intelligent light on a car but I saw on TV that some european car brands are giving electronis ameliorations to the system :

It was 'only' turning lights adapted to the road.
Imagine you are driving in mountain with zig zag road and the next way of the road is turning to right , so the lights will turn to light the road and will give comfort to your driving because you don't discover to late the road.

This system should have been produced on a DS, but never made.

Imagine you are driving in mountain with zig zag road and the next way of the road is turning to right , so the lights will turn to light the road and will give comfort to your driving because you don't discover to late the road.

This system should have been produced on a DS, but never made.

Oops, here I go breaking my promise not to discuss old cars in a general forum!

Citroën DS (most models of DS from 1967, as opposed to cheaper ID) did have road-following headlights. Take a look at this photo: inboard lights are high beams that follow the steering wheel. Here is a photo of a model without them (either ID or earlier model DS - I am not sure).

Another interesting relic from those glorious times, Citroën SM (M is for Maserati) - a coupe based on DS with Maserati engine - also had hydraulicaly operated road-following and self-leveling headlights (photo, details) - but not on the variant for American market. I also know this firsthand, because an acquaintance of mine has three SMs. (Interesting sidenote: several four-door variants of SM existed, including one convertible (SM Presidentielle) - of course, there were two-door convertibles, too.) For a good resource see, for example, here.
Searching the web for good photographs, I stumbled on several American shops specialising in Citroëns, one specifically in SM. I didn't see roadgoing 2CVs there, though .

And, FYI, the ill-fated Tucker had a single center-mounted road-following headlight in addition to the normal static two in 1947.

Edit: Changed 1957 to 1947. Oops.

Forgive my ignorance, but wouldn't the FM-10 do much the same job as the FM-25 at a lower price point? Granted, the range is probably more limited but for an in-car application I wouldn't think it would matter much, and it'd be 1/3rd the price...

"The first 2CVs, designated 'A' series, had a 375cc engine and were rated at two horsepower on the French fiscal rating (hence its name 2CV or 'two horses')"

375ccm engine actually had 12HP. As your qoute says, 2CV is fiscal rating (for taxation purposes) which has almost nothing to do with actual power (and CV is an acronym which, I think, means Catégoire Vehicules or something like that, certainly not Chevaux). Later model 2CVs had the same engine as Diane, but the later was rated 6CV. I don't know whether this scale is still used, but last time I heard about it 'normal' sedans were in 18CV or 20CV category. Of course, popular nickname 'Deux Chevaux' did want to stress that the thing did not have much more that 2HP.

...but I'm still not sure I'd trade in a good pair of blue jeans for a 2CV. :)

Well, I was not paying for mine much more.

Did you ever drive a dune buggy with very soft suspension? Well, the sensation is similar when you roll that canvas roof...

And, FYI, the ill-fated Tucker had a single center-mounted road-following headlight in addition to the normal static two in 1957.

No, I didn't know that (btw, you mean 1947, don't you?). Another car too good for the market... Why did it never advance past preproduction stage?

Oops, yeah -- 1947 (fixed). It didn't get into production because of financial and legal trouble. It was being independently produced and funded by pre-orders. The SEC didn't like some of the things they were doing (selling dealerships and accessories for a car that didn't exist, mostly) and brought them to court, where the company folded, despite being found innocent. There exists a conspiracy theory that the major American auto manufacturers somehow brought about the investigation and trial, but that's likely just a consipracy theory.