Now, before anyone jumps, I'm talking about people "abusing" not just anyone who posts auctions (empeg in this case) on eBay.

I see a lot of people simply copying (stealing) other people's custom HTML, images and even linking to images on other people's servers (including pulling stuff direct from the SONICblue store site!) That's theft of bandwidth. It's against eBay rules and it's grounds to getting your auction removed.

If you're trying to sell something on eBay, don't steal other people's work and don't link to images that you are not hosting yourself.

If you are following the rules and you see someone else that isn't, just email eBay support about it. It's an easy way to thin out the seller competition. You can also email the rightful owners of the images (webmasters etc) and they may very well change the links.

When I see people stealing from auctions I've listed I fire off an email to the offender asking him to take down his auction right away. The next email goes to eBay. And if I'm in a good mood I may just change over the images they're linking to something else entirely.

If you're one of these thieves and now getting all bent out of shape because you think I'll narc you out... Well, if I feel like it, I will. Get with the program and there's no worries. Good thing I'm not trying to auction an empeg myself right now. Otherwise I'd zip through everyone else's auctions to see how many eBay customer service would care to nuke. It's a rough world on the auction frontier.

Bruno

When I see people stealing from auctions I've listed I fire off an email to the offender asking him to take down his auction right away. The next email goes to eBay.

If it's strictly against Ebay's terms of service, I don't see why the first of those two emails even has to happen. I say e-mail Ebay first. Don't even warn the seller. Just get them terminated.

funny how you are bitching about people "stealing" other people's work and bandwidth with regards to a product that is primarily and universally used to play back illegally owned music..

Yeah, yeah, some people will use their own music collection and not use any pirated music. Well I would bet all I own that the vast majority of Empeg and other hi-capacity MP3 player owners have bootleg music in their collections.. So let he without sin(stealing) cast the first stone...

Stealing bandwidth is kind of sleazy, but the owners of that material can do something to prevent it from being leeched in the first place.

with regards to a product that is primarily and universally used to play back illegally owned music.

That statement is ill-informed. Before anyone flames the guy, how about this...



Note to everyone choosing to answer: This poll is anonymous.

Mr. Munsey, why do I get the feeling you are not long on this board? I suspect you may well regret saying that, as it is ill-informed and below the belt.

And as a follow-up poll:

Tony, the Empeg has renewed my interest in quality ripped music. I hardly download music anymore because most people don't care about how their rip sounds. Instead, because I'm still cheap, I buy cuts and promos from half.com for about $3 per album.

Tony, the Empeg has renewed my interest in quality ripped music. I hardly download music anymore because most people don't care about how their rip sounds. Instead, because I'm still cheap, I buy cuts and promos from half.com for about $3 per album.

Despite the "still cheap" part, that still counts as buying more CDs, so the poll options are still valid for you.

Good point about the quality. I have only ever been interested in high-quality MP3s, and I, too, have noticed that most of the stuff on the web is crap.

Bandwidth theft is a little different than pirating music. It's an ongoing burden that the host of that material is actually paying for each time it is used.

But, as other have pointed out, you're dead wrong about the source of music on the majority of players. Your point may become true at a later date with all the recent sales, but the vast majority of posters on this BBS fill their players with their own music.

I used to do a bit of reading and posting on the Audiograbber BBS as well and the majority of people purchasing the program were interested in ripping their own music for their own private (fair) use.

I just saw one auction where the guy is advertising the fact that he os pre-loading all his empegs with 10000 songs! And he goes to to say stuff like "that's a $500 value!" - needless to say, I fired off a message to eBay about that one guy right away. That is clearly illegal and *so* against eBay policies.

Besides, it gives a leg up to others trying to sell their empegs.

And, why should one have to script their page to prevent bandwidth theft? That's a burden I will definitely undertake for some web projects, but not something I feel like I should have to do all the time. I don't mind the casual link to some of my stuff in a message board for instance, especially if it's of an honest nature. But someone linking any of my material on eBay to generate profit for themselves, or on their own site, to portray it as their work is where I draw the line.

Bruno

that still counts as buying more CDs, so the poll options are still valid for you

I know, I answered the first poll, but i was unsure how I should answer the 2nd one. It's not the Empeg that prompted me to buy more CDs, but crappy rips from others.

I agree with the crappy rips deal also do you deem it ok to use others images as long as you upload them to your own server?

Only if they're corporate images (taken by the original manufacturer). I wouldn't take someone else's image, and I always host images off my own servers.

Depends if it's fair-use, depends on the image in question and depends on the wishes/policies of the image copyright holder/owner.

It can be a grey area. Original artwork I always say absolutely no. Fairly generic product shots I usually say yes - especially when they are available from the manufacturer for promotional and press usage. But if I take my own photograph of my own Rio, I consider that original art. So see above.

Start by always hosting your own images. Next, when possible take your own photographs for things like auctions. Or use press-type prints that are intended for such purposes. Get permission whenever applicable. If you're looking for images for your own site and not auctions, then make sure anything you're going to use is allowed to be used - don't just lift stuff from someone else.

On my Mobile Matrix page I have used a combination of everything I suppose. First, I am using images to advertise/review each product and not for any commercial (or other) gain for myself. I obtained generic press-type product shots for each player shown. I also did some of my own photography. I worked all the images to fit with what I wanted to show. That included compositing my own photography with the press photos. I provide copyright and trademark information for the products at the bottom of the page. Within the page I link several times to the trademark owners of the products.

I also provide a note at the bottom stating that others are not permitted to use the images I have on my site. That always includes bandwidth theft, but even just lifting the images. If other people want similar images, they can go to the source like I did and then do their own work. Or they can contact me for permission. And since I'm a reasonable guy, they'd probably get it. And of course the same type of conditions apply to the text within my tables. I spent enough time on that, for no other reason than to just share information, but I don't want my work uncredited and/or lifted/reused.

And if you're reading here, you're already getting all sorts of free consulting. Just email me for permission before ever republishing elsewhere, anything I write here. hehe.

Bruno

Yeah whenever I list something on eBay if I cannot make my own picture, I will use an official company picture I never steal someone elses homemade image.

I have emailed ebay about auctions selling pirated software their reply was pretty much they won't do anything about it until after you buy the item

I suppose the loser could have 10k copies of some free mp3 on it :-)

jnmunsey: a product that is primarily and universally used to play back illegally owned music

Well, for what it is worth, I just answered that poll. Granted, as with other BBS polls, unless the total N or respondants comes close to the N of BBS accounts, it's validity could be called into question. I also admit that, with the recent addition of a large number of new (perhaps more cost-sensitive) Empeg owners, it is possible that the behavioral profile vis-a-vis piracy is different today than it was 3 months ago.

That being said, I think you are unfairly applying your opinions and suspicions to a group of folks, myself included, who will vigorously beg to differ. Of ~350 CDs worth of music on my Empeg, >95% is from my CD collection, this for all the reasons cited in this thread . What can you say in that regard? Are you perhaps just projecting your opinions/behaviors onto us?

Hmm.. I think my amazon account is proof enough that I've purchased alot more cd's since owning an empeg then before.. (before, I had the same 4-5 cd's that I rotated.. Now I'm averaging 5-10 new cd's/month)
-mark

they won't do anything about it until after you buy the item

Or unless your hand is up their ass. I've had 3 auctions prematurely ended eBay. The first was for an NFR copy of BackOffice (the first version with NT 3.51). The last two were for promo DVDs where the blemish to the UPC was evident in my picture of the item.

The NFR is understandable even though I was selling it 10 years after it was commercially available. The DVDs are outrageous. If you can buy a cut CD or DVD at Tower Records, I should be able to sell them on eBay.

> Granted, as with other BBS polls, unless the total N or respondants comes close to the N of BBS accounts, it's validity could be called into question.

Not to mention the fact that it is a self-selected poll, and some groups may have more of an desire to answer than others, despite the anonymous nature. No one wants Empeg to be associated with piracy, even the pirates with Empegs.

Boy, this BBS sure eats a lot of my posts. The first copy of this post was about the third or fourth of my posts it has eaten.

Boy, this BBS sure eats a lot of my posts. The first copy of this post was about the third or fourth of my posts it has eaten.

I have posted to this BBS more frequently than any other user, and the BBS has never eaten any of my posts. Well except on the occasions when it's crashed, and it hasn't crashed today.

So I would guess it's something in what you're doing, or something wrong with your browser or your internet connection. Are you simply hitting the "back" button on the "preview post" screen, perhaps? Remember the BBS (by default) lets you preview and edit a post before confirming it.

you're right I have heard of other people having auctions ended for legitimate items but then they won't end illegitimate ones when they are pointed out.

ebay doesn't make sense sometimes.

I signed up for emusic so I have gotten many from them instead of the store so I have probably not purchased more actual CD's

No, I got all the way to the point where it says my post has been entered.

Mybe it doesn't like me. Wouldn't be the first time.

Hmm. What browser are you using?

Internet Explorer 6 on a Win 2K machine. Pretty standard stuff. I don't have any unusual security settings or anything.

Personally I think the law's bunk. When you buy something, you own it. Do what you want with it. Fair play.

Well.. if you buy into a condo, you can't take it and move it can you? Buying software has been cleverly hidden behind the EULA which prohibits you from selling it later. If you never use it, you can get around it and sell it again (under first sale laws).

Edit: Hrm.. I dunno why I was talking about software, it's umm.. late yea..

I agree. Do with CDs that you BUY what you want. That doesn't include copying/encoding the music into MP3 format and then selling copies. Then you're not doing anything with what you bought. You're producing illegitimate copies for sale. And that's the issue with the listing on eBay I mentioned.

If the seller wants to sell the music, then he should (MUST) ship all the CDs with the empeg he's selling. Then there's nothing wrong with it. However, he wasn't going to do that and actually had TWO empegs for sale with the same music as a bonus.

Bruno

BTW, you also shouldn't link images from other sites (including uglypeople.com) for use on the BBS. You're stealing their bandwidth (if not their copyright). Their site is being impacted (even though the downloads are small) each and every time someone opens a thread on this BBS.

Bruno

While linking to other peoples' images may be rude, it is legal. A couple of years ago ticketmaster took tickets.com to court over "deep linking" which is essentially the embedded of whole pages, not just images, from one website within the frames of pages on another website. Ticketmaster lost the case and thus there is now legal precedent, at least in the USA, to support linking stuff into your pages from other people's webservers.

And really, the technical solution is easy and doesn't require a whole lot of scripting. There are a lot of tools that make it simple to filter requests for images (or any other file type) by referrer. Even simpler is to keep an eye on your log files and if you see your images being abused, just rename them and your own links and then put some nasty-ass goatse.cx pictures in their place with the original filenames.

Trust me, nobody is going to sell an empeg with the goatse.cx guy as the image of their product. It would probably be enough to get the seller banned all on his own.