I am not very knowledgable on the hardware or software of the Empeg but, I am wondering is there anyway to configure a digital output out of the empeg so that I can run the signal to a better quality D/A converter? I love my Empeg, but two things I miss:
1.) Digital Out
2.) Subwoofer output control
If these two things were incorporated into the player I would have in my eyes the perfect head unit.....a 10.
Dave

Are you sure the DAC you're thinking of is better quality? Do you already know you'll be able to hear any difference at all? If you've already made your mind up about these things, then they will probably make a difference to you regardless of the outcome.

Do a search for "digital out" as I know it's been discussed before. You can use the second set of outputs for your sub (just link it through whatever control mechanism you want. Then again, you can just use one set of outputs for this depending on what you're connecting it to. Analog-only of course.

Out of curiosity, what program did you use to rip your music and what encoder (and settings) have you used to make your MP3 files?

Bruno

Here you go. The bold text is a link btw.

Bruno

Digital output is unlikely to ever happen, as it would require that you modify the motherboard, and then you would need to write the necessary software to drive the chip.

Don't see why digital output is needed. What's wrong with the DAC in the player? It's very high quality.

Subwoofer output control is covered in the FAQ, here.

Easy come, easy go. Ask a question and then don't show up to acknowledge any responses. I don't know how you do it Tony. Sometimes I just wish there were a mechanism to sense what kind of message someone was about to post, and then plaster a HUGE banner saying "SEARCH THE BBS (Using the search feature: HERE)"

One reason he thinks he may need a better DAC may be because his current tracks are ripped and/or encoded badly. If we get a reply, maybe we'll know...

Bruno

Where is it stated that you need to write the necessary software to drive the chip?

Calvin

We just have to be careful this doesn't turn into the dickhead forum.

Bruno,

There are valid reasons for wanting digital output, so don't knock the guy. I've been considering picking up one a set of Perpetual Technology's DACs as they upsample to 24 bit, 192kHz, and in this case, have a capability to reshape the response to linearize your speakers or room environment. Really quite nice stuff, and have all the best reviews. As nice as the empeg DAC is, it's not the best on the market, not even close. Can you hear the difference? Sure.

Calvin

Sorry for not getting back to you about your question to me. I must say though, I sure hope you say what you say in jest. I have been extremely busy with work and family and have not had time to even check out the links you guys have supplied. I appreciate your prompt response but, lighten up! I have been reading this board since it's inception so I am no stranger to it. I just never really bother to post unless I have a question or something useful too add. with that being said, let me get down to business.
I misrepresented myself in saying I wanted to use a better DAC. Why I really want the Digital Out is because with a digital crossover, I can help eliminate any potential noise that might get picked up by running a 20 foot length of analog signal through out that noisy environment. Also the 24 bit Burr Brown DAC in the external processor would be nice. I am sure this difference will be subtle I do have to agree. But I have an excellent ear IMHO. The audio system in my car is worth in the neighborhood of $12k.

As for the sub control I have many many options including what is listed in the FAQ. I was just fishing around to see if there was any other way to set it up.

As for MP3 ripping and encoding I am using Musicmatch 7.0
CBR @256. I have never had any problems with my MP3's quality.

.....Maybe I should have posted this in wish list.

Dave

I should mention that the latest amplifiers in the stereo shop this week is the digital input ones. They take a digital input and eliminate all the analog stages up to the speaker lines. No loss, and less chance of ground loops, noise, etc.

Calvin

What brand is using digital inputs? I know of pioneer but who else?

An amp with a digital input is only as good as its DAC. There's nothing wrong with going analogue from source to amplifier.

A few years ago I remember someone trying to peddle the idea of connecting speakers via firewire. Each speaker box would need its own DAC and amplifier. Yeah, nice idea. You're coupled with these supposedly high-end speakers using DACs and amps which I can assure you are not as good, nor versatile as seperates you can buy.

The reasons just given for wanting digital output are fairly valid. More so that simply saying "I want a better DAC" - because to that I'd say, stop using Music Match (and Fraunhofer's encoder) and you'll get more of an improvement than you likely will with another DAC.

In the home it is easy to build a system for $20K that will obliterate someone else's for both volume and clarity that might cost $100K (it can be made to be better in any way you care to measure or describe). Same is true for the car. Too many times I find people just looking for ways to throw money at a problem without trying to figure out exactly what the problem is to begin with and looking at other ways around it.

Anyway, there's no argument to be had here. I posted directions to THE SOURCE. The "MAN" as far as the empeg goes. The info that is needed is all in that single message (it includes a link to Hugo's PM-Box if anyone needs any other details).

I'll wrap this up by saying all problems should be attacked at the source. And the source when dealing with the empeg, is the MP3 file. No sense in building a transparent system to play potentially flawed tracks.

Bruno

I use SB Live in my Music/DVD PC with a custom 20 meter Toslink optical cable to my Pioneer Receiver in the Lounge room I haven't got expensive speakers, just really good ones and a big Sub, so that's where the DAC is, as close as possible to the AMP, I Dunno what brand the DAC is in my amp I doubt it's a bur brown and I am going to cop a lot of flack here but MP3's played there (R3Mix'd and all that for better Quality) sound Much Much sweeter than my Empeg played in the car with a Sony Xplode setup or my Computer room Games and test amps, and that's a pretty good 200 watt phillips deck and the rear speakers is a 100 watt JVC Amp

I hear Zero Hiss and Zero PC noise, The PC source is so much further away from the Amplifier and being optical zero loss and Zero noise pickup along the way, I also have an Copper Digital feed for 5.1 from my Hollywood Decoder, and get the same great noise imunity, Use a remote Com port IR receiver in the lounge and radio IR Relays and you can get the Winamp jukebox to flip the MP3's remotley even on the Garden Amp, a must have! kill it now if a really embarassing Barry manilow comes on random.. ok so that's 200 watt 12V system and those speakers I made myself does sound pretty crap and the neighbors hate that one unless they are at the BBQ

I am upgrading to an Audigy in that PC soon, I don't expect a great leapin quality but I still doubt I will like to listen to Empeg in house. the Empeg's place is in the car where it belongs.

The only reason I might want to put it in the lounge stereo cabinet in a docking box or something would be for the cool displays, But half the time it would leave an Ugly hole and wrecks the Fung Shwee of my stereo cabinet, never happy....

Actually I did run a Headphone cable from the computer room all the way down the outside of the house and next to my bed, the Empeg is pretty good for playing anti Smoking Hypnosis MP3 to My Wife at night, It's not working.

Cool use for Empeg I find is playing MP3 Audio books/Stories to my kids on long car journeys. though you tend to fall asleep and nearly drive off the road. I want to put headphone jacks in the back of the car for the kids and my Wife and I can listen to the radio or the old CD head unit, I am thinking of a second amp in the car connected to the unused rear Empeg outputs

Thanks for putting front and rear outputs on Empeg Doods. !!



Toslink output on the EMPEG - Now that would have been Kewl...

Gazz

Bruno,

I have wave files on my empeg. In fact, all the music that I consider to be top quality, I retain the raw wave versions. No amount of encoding will improve the quality there. I'd say, at that point, it's up to the quality of the DAC, and it would be my wish to have a digital out to explore that avenue.

Calvin

I heard Pioneer, and I think Alpine had some test units out at the store. I'm not interested at this point, but they would be far more interesting to me if the empeg had digital outs.

Calvin

Optical would be pretty good for Car Systems considering the head unit up front and the Amp all the way down in the boot, if you put the DAC in the amp the Toslink would eliminate so much noise you probably wouldn't have to play wav files anymore, but that's why they went for 4V outputs I guess, Gazz.

I think despite Bruno's insistance that there is no problems with just sending a line level signal all over the car, the fact of the matter is car voltages range all over the map, and with inteference sources all over it, plus lots of chances to create ground loops, sending the data digitally makes the most sense.

I wouldn't argue for this for home componentry, but in the car, it's only logical.

Calvin

I thought TOSLINK (which is just a type of connector?) was only good up to 10 feet. I remember that from my MD days. A digital coaxial lead would be good. Not so much to bypass the DAC, but to offer noise free connection to the amp. Would be nice... I freakin' hate my alternator whine. This may or may not get rid of it though because RCA's are only one possible cause.

You can buy ready made Toslink optical (Plastic fibre not glass) up to 50 meters, I am not sure what the limits are, I recon it would depend a lot on the fibre quality, but you can order them custom any length. Gazz..

So are there production head units out with digital inputs of some sort? Brand names and model numbers would be helpful. I fully intend to build a digital interface for my Rio. Doesn't sound too hard, even though I'm no electrical engineer, the eval. board schematic for the Crystal unit looks pretty simple to make. Does anybody know where I could purchase a small quantity (less than 10) of Crystal's CS8405A?

There are a few, but I don't know the model numbers off hand.

Calvin

I found the Crystal CS8405A at Newark electronics if anyone is interested. They were something like $4.50 each. If I go ahead and build a digital out interface, would anyone else be interested in purchasing one? What would you prefer, optical or coaxial? I would prefer optical due to its immunity to noise, but if all the headunits have coax inputs, that's what it will be. The less circuitry, the better.

Stu

Listening wise Optical or Coax practically have the same advantages, With the coax output, it is easier to make your own cables and you can use a rca connector which would no doubt be easier to drill a round hole in the back of the empeg than cut a square one for optical. My Receiver has some spare optical inputs though, it dosent really matter as you can get converters. Gazz.

How about both coax and optical? I've seen little adaptor boards for PC soundcards that add optical and coax outputs and they aren't much more than a chip on a PCB with the two output jacks and one input.

I will buy one. I would prefer I2S (5-pin mini-DIN), then coax, then optical.

Calvin

If you want I2S then shouldn't be very difficult as it's already present on the board. Just buffer the output and drill a hole for the socket somewhere.

- Trevor

I haven't had time lately to pursue this. I'm a complete newbie when it comes to making hardware mods to the empeg. It would be nice if somebody took pictures of the motherboard and drew circles around where the i2s pins are located. The only thing that leaps out at me on the motherboard are the design credits and the apology to Mr. Moss. :-p

Calvin

What exactly is I2S? I thought it was just the name of the pads on the Empeg board from which a digital audio signal could be tapped. According to a post I read, one simply needs to construct a small board with the Crystal CS8405 IC and supporting circuitry to get digital out.

Assuming that is the case, it would seem that an optical output would be the best choice, as the head units I've seen only offer that form of input. I still need to figure some things out, as the schematic for the eval board omits some of the values for the components. The crystal they say to use is for 48 khz sampling rate, and of course we need the value for 44.1 khz. Anyone care to look at the schematic and figure out what the various missing values are for the good of us all? As long as I know what parts I need to buy, it shouldn't be that hard to come up with a board that will do the job. The trickiest part is the surface mount leads on the CS8405.

Also, one thing I realized, is that if you use the digital output on the back of the Empeg in the car, it will negate some of the benefits of having the docking connector. Unless it's possible to send a coax digital signal through unused conductors on the docking connector (if there are any), it's going to require a cable with enough slack to allow one to pull out the Empeg and then unplug/plug the cable each time the Empeg is removed/inserted into the dock.

I too would like to see the I2S pads on the board so I don't have to open my warrantied Rio Car.

Any thoughts?

Stu

I2S is a standard by Phillips to allows chips to send and receive sound data in a standard way. It stands for Inter IC Sound. The Crystal IC reencodes this data to SP/DIF.

A related standard also by Phillips is I2C which stands for Inter IC. This is used for control signals e.g. setting the registers in the empeg DSP.

If I've got the time I'll download the specification of the Crystal IC and have a look. Its shouldn't be very difficult. But there is one thing, you'll also have to hook this chip up to the I2C bus for control.

There aren't any unused pins on the docking connection unfortunately.

- Trevor

If you get a chance take a look at both the evaluation board and CS8405A docs. From what I've read, the Crystal IC only needs the serial audio data, and word rate clock data to function properly. Could this be obtained simply be connecting to the I2S pads?

Thanks,

Stu

I took the liberty of taking a few pictures of the area on the Empeg motherboard that I believe to contain the "I2S" pads with my aging digital camera. Attached is the best one. I believe, based on the leads from the Philips DSP that the pads are the ones in the picture named "IIS", but I'm not positive. Can anyone verify this?

What are the other pads for? It looks like there are pads for another IC. What are they for? What are the "IIS Power" pads for? And also the "ProI" pads?

Thanks,

Stu

I just want to say that I hope someone figures this out. I have an all digital hifi system in my home (Meridian) which has nothing but the finest DAC's at every speaker cone. I absolutely know that my Empeg will sound better when plugged into this system if it could feed the Meridian with direct Digital output.

Mmmmm...all Meridian.

I assume they're the digital loudspeakers? My CEO has those.

After a little more research, it seems that indeed "IIS" and "I2S" are different names for the same thing. So at least I have found the outputs of the empeg. Now the questions is how to go from IIS to the inputs on the CS8405 chip, which needs serial data and word rate clock inputs. What circuitry is needed to interface the CS8405 with these IIS outputs?

According to Hugo,

there is a 2mm header (row of holes) on the board that has the following: ground, 3.3v, I2C clock, i2C left/right, i2C data front/rear.

Calvin

In reply to:

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According to Hugo,

there is a 2mm header (row of holes) on the board that has the following: ground, 3.3v, I2C clock, i2C left/right, i2C data front/rear.

---

Perhaps this header is the set of pads labeled IIS?