To Rob or any empeg staff. I know it's a little picky, but could we see some links on the site to microphones (suggested and cheaper) and the Kenwood steering wheel remote? If anyone knows where I can find the Kenwood remote, I'd appreciate it. Then I'll just replace the one on my car with that.

To any European: I've been wondering, if your car has cruise control, which side of the wheel are the controls located? Here they're on the right (at least on the 4 cars I've driven).

DiGNAN

could we see some links on the site to microphones (suggested and cheaper) and the Kenwood steering wheel remote?

I agree that the links to mics and to the Kenwood remote should be on the main web site, but just for now, here's the microphone link:

Andrea Electronics

I was going to put a link to Crutchfield's catalog for the Kenwood steering-wheel remote, but now I can't seem to find it there. I'd seen it there before, so that's odd.


___________
Tony Fabris

I would suspect cruise controls are manufacturer preference. On my Mitsubishi the cruise control is a "joystick" stalk on the lower right. On Fords I've seen them integrated to the front of the steering wheel as a series of buttons. On some I've seen them on a stalk on the left with knobs. . .

I don't see why it would be different in Europe.

Calvin

Oh I'm aware of that mic. But they said that there were other compatable mics that traded some quality for price. That mic is just toooooo expensive. There is no way I'm spending another $150 on a mic right after a $1300 empeg and a $600 - $1000 installation.

At least not anytime soon.

DiGNAN

I have a Miata (MX-5)... Is this the microphone that is recommended for this kind of application? (Convertible and all...)

- Thanx
- Jon

I highly doubt that VR (voice recognition) will work in a convertible with the top down. I can almost assure you of that. With the top up I'm not sure. Plus I get the sense that you have alot of road noise in a Miata.

However, that is the microphone that Hugo showed us and said they were reccomending (at least they were a few weeks ago - who knows at this point). I think it's a fantastic mic and I'm sure it's very receptive -- but it costs so damn much!

DiGNAN

yeah, hugo. what about those of us that drive miatas? have you got voice working in your mx5 yet? let us know how it works. i want to keep the top down, but it would be pretty cool to voice command the stereo. tough choice.

jeremy

oh, i wish i wish i had an empeg...

There is no way I'm spending another $150 on a mic right after a $1300 empeg and a $600 - $1000
installation.

Why is your installation so very expensive? Does this price include amps ans speakers?
I'm pretty sure the install of the empeg should not take more than 2 or 3 hours including all wiring. If you pay about $70 per hour for an installer (who should do the work in less than 2 or 3 hours) it should not be that much! If this price includes amps then I can understand.

TeeMcBee

That mic is just toooooo expensive.

...but it is the one that John is actually using for development with the VR SW. This is at the place that has Linux running on their front doorbell...

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners...

Not Just too expensive but too big size for car - isn't it? I'd prefer a really tiny thing hidden somewhere on/in the dash or roof.
At the time the software is ready it should recognize commands from an alternative mic, too, shouldn't it? Or is the input quality really so very different?

TeeMcBee

That install price includes an amp and subwoofer. The difference in price depends on where they have to install the components.

DiGNAN

Then I can understand. Should be OK

TeeMcBee

IIRC, part of the mic's size is due to it being a linear array of microphones. This helps determine where the speaker(human) is and focus on his/her voice. It'd be pretty hard to do that with 1 hidden mic. Sure, there are small mics that could be hidden and would pick up your voice(like in a cellphone car kit), but those have a hard time filtering out noise.

_~= Dearing =~_
"WAY too happy about having #99."

I drive a convertible as well. So what is the recommended microphone??

Calvin

They probably wont recommend microphones until the software is done and they have a chance to test various mics with it.

Well actually they've said that they would be recommending that Andrea Electronics microphone because, as someone said, that's what the developers are testing the VR software with. It really is the best way to go, but I just don't have room for it in my budget, and VR isn't really worth $150 to me, despite the coolness factor.

Perhaps if I don't get a subwoofer installed (that would take $200 to $400 off that install price) I'll go for it, but I'd probably install new speakers instead, and that's going to run me around $150. So it's a trade-off.

DiGNAN

Perhaps if I don't get a subwoofer installed (that would take $200 to $400 off that install price) I'll go for it, but I'd probably install new speakers instead, and that's going to run me around $150. So it's a trade-off.

Subwoofer. Go for the subwoofer. No question. Doug, jump in here and second me on this one.

___________
Tony Fabris

Not Doug, but definitely an advocate of the subwoofer... Tony's right. Adding the sub makes a much bigger difference than one would expect. You don't need to have brain-vibrating bass, you just need a little something to round out the frequency spectrum.

In reading this thread, it seems that several people are concered about an extra $150 for a mic. This seems odd to me because I would think that anyone willing to spend $1200-1900 for a car stereo shouldn't be counting pennies to try to afford it. This isn't ment to be a flame or anything. I'm just suprised at the different people interested in this.

I figured that people in line for empeg where car audiofile nuts like my self as well as computer geeks. I've already got $4000 in my car stereo (Total reference quality sound, no BOOMING here) and while it has taken a little while to get there, I have no problem with the price of the empeg and accessories. If it was twice as much, I'd still buy one, it would just take longer to save up.

I'm also amazed at how many people are hooking empeg up to factory sound systems. Really people, the best way to improve your stero is to upgrade your amp, speakers, and sub . The head unit is just the iceing on the cake (and empeg is THE BEST iceing!) Once again, this is not ment to be a flame. I just wonder if the end result is to improve your car audio experience, perhaps some peoples money might be better spent in other ways. What do you think?

Although many of our clients take car audio quality very seriously, others are more interested in the large music capacity offered by the product. Many of those clients would not usually spend $1000+ on a car stereo head, but for the fact that the empeg offers such advanced functionality.

In short, some of our clients ARE counting the pennies to afford the product, and they may not have the budget or inclination to fit top end components throughout their system. I think they'll still receive excellent value from the car player, and perhaps they may wish to upgrade the other components at a later date.

Rob

Nail on the head, Ruffles.

One thing I've been told is that when going for good sound, you have to work backwards through the system: Start by getting the best possible speakers (and enclosures) you can get. Then get the proper amps to drive those speakers cleanly at the desired levels. Whatever money you have left over is what you spend on the head unit.

Of course, the Empeg is a special case. Still, I agree that if you're going to spend $1-2k on a stereo, you owe it to yourself to get decent amps and speakers.

The flip side is that some of the Empeg buyers aren't audiophiles. They just want a lot of MP3s in their dash without a big change in the sound. They're buying the Empeg's features, not its sound. But in that case, wouldn't proper VR be a feature you want? If so, again, you owe it to yourself to get the proper mic so that VR works well. The Andrea mic is special because it has built-in noise rejection so that it'll work in your car properly. And it mounts on the edge of your sun visor so you just leave it there and forget about it.



___________
Tony Fabris

The $150 mic:

I'm not counting pennies to get my empeg. However, I am very value-oriented -- I don't like to throw money at things, but I'm willing to pay for good stuff that I want. The empeg, to me, is a pretty nice little box, and is well worth the money. The voice recognition feature is pretty cool, and would be fun to play with. However, there have been some concerns voiced about just how well it will work, and if it's going to work well enough to be really useful. And you have to admit that $150 is kind of on the expensive side for a consumer microphone, no? It just doesn't seem to be that good of a *value*.

empeg on factory system (which I'm planning to do):

Quite simply, I'm not an audiophile. (Rather, I'd fit into your "computer geek" category. :) Heck, I'm not even a music buff. I just like to listen to music while I'm doing stuff. The idea of having my entire music collection with me all the time, and having any song instantly available at the touch of a button really appeals to me. Also, most of my music is in MP3 format anyway.

Also, remember that the empeg is much more than a head unit. In fact, I expect that I'm going to use it in my house 90% of the time. Being able to use it in the car is just icing on the cake.

Oh, and my car is leased. ;)

Alex

Well, the mic isn't just a little mic - it's a 4-microphone array, plus a little DSP pack (requires power from the amp remote line). It's value for $150 :)

Hugo

it's a 4-microphone array, plus a little DSP pack

Hugo, what are the chances that you stick with Andrea as the best microphone set-up for VR?
Assuming that it also cuts out background noise when used with a car phone, would it make sense to get one now (for use with the phone) and share it between the phone and the empeg later?

Henno
ex 00120

I happen to be in the penny-pinching mode at the moment.

I'm a college student, and I'm working over the summer. I plan to earn a total of about $3500 to $3700 total. It's a question of how much I want to have to take back to school with me. So far I've spent somewhere around $650. Let's say that leaves $3000. Then take off $1300 for the empeg, and $700 for installation, and I'm left with $1000.

Now keep in mind that I need to live on that $1000 for the first semester of school. That includes food, gas, and day to day expenses. I cannot afford a $150 mic. I might be able to afford something like a $50 mic, but even that would be pushing it.

Hugo, I fully understand that the Andrea Electronics mic is a very nice piece of equipment. However, if there is a cheaper one, as the web site implies, I'd like to know about it.

Just remember, the mic is too expensive for me. I fully urge anyone to get the higher quality mic, because it seems to be very good. I would probably buy one in the future, or ask for it as a birthday or Christmas present, I just can't afford it now.

DiGNAN

> However, if there is a cheaper one, as the web site implies, I'd like to know
> about it.

It's absolutely nothing to do with us which mic you buy - we're not telling you to spend $150, we just mentioned that if you want the best voice recognition performance, then that could be the best product for the job.

We're not hiding an alternative cheaper product - visit Radio Shack and ask for a cheap condenser mic, you should be able to get one for a couple of dollars, just don't expect the best voice recognition accuracy.

That goes for any system - e.g. Auto PC - not just the empeg.

Rob

it's a 4-microphone array

I just checked the Andrea site (again): no sign of visor-mounted array microphones !
They didn't cancel that product now a rear-mirror array is in the wings for Donnelly? Am I looking in the wrong place?
Could swear I'd seen a picture of sun-visor mounted mikes at their site, or was it someplace else?

Henno
ex 00120

The link to the array microphone is here.

Registration number 1430

Tony is absolutely right. If it is a choice between voice recognition and a subwoofer, forget the VR. You don't need it. You do need a subwoofer.

And it doesn't have to be some monster box filled full of 12 inchers, either. A single 10" subwoofer, properly located, will make a near-miraculous improvement in the sound of your stereo system.

I never used to be a car stereo audiophile -- I bought an inexpensive station wagon, the radio didn't work, so I figured what the heck, put in a CD player. Took me only a few days to realize that I wanted more low-end response when I played Bolero... had the stereo shop put in a subwoofer, and I was an instant convert. It sounded sooooo good, I really had had no idea what I had been missing before.

It changed my car from being something that made semi-musical noises to something that really PLAYED MUSIC to the point where my commute to and from work is just about the best part of the day.

That got me started, and then my stereo shop, worse than any dope pusher, helped me enhance it with better speakers, better amplifiers, a little of this and a little of that until I ended up with a competition-capable system (never placed lower than third in any event I entered) and still only had about $1350 invested. (Well.... not a fair thing to say, because I represent the shop when I compete and I get pretty special pricing. I'd guess someone off the street could duplicate my system for about $2000--$2500. Of course when I get my empeg, that price goes way up.)

Anyway... if you have to, skip the VR. Skip lunches. Become celibate. But get the subwoofer.

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

But can you actually buy one of these mics online?

Thanks Frank: it's indeed the link I was looking for but though it is still on the Andrea web site, it seems no longer linked to any of the other pages on their site: not even the products summary or the on-line order page mention it any longer. The only reference I can find is in the site overview, where it is shown as a sub-page of products (from where it isn't linked)..

Hugo, are you sure this is still a live product - available to the general public???
Would you considered reselling it as part of the Mk2 package?

Henno
ex 00120

No, no, I'm not choosing between a sub woofer and VR. that's an obvious choice and I know the difference a sub can make. The choice between it and VR isn't even compareable, as $150 or less for a mic is a bit different from $250 to $400 for a sub and installation.

The choice was, if I didn't get a sub installed, that would leave me with a bit of extra cash that I had planned to spend on car audio anyway, so I would use it to upgrade what I have been told are crummy factory installed speakers.

I still haven't decided. Thanks for the info Rob. So I just need a condensor mic? what is that?

DiGNAN

A condenser mic is a small, typically cheap, omni-directional (hears anything) mic with a broad frequency response. It's the kind of mic you might find on a camcorder, mini-cassette recorder, or cellphone car kit.

_~= Dearing =~_
"WAY too happy about having #99."