#264682 - 07/09/2005 17:00
Empeg 4v line-outs into Stock Infinity Gold amp?
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member
Registered: 02/04/2002
Posts: 148
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I have a new car - a 02 Jeep Grand Cherokee. It has the infinity gold system, as did my 1996. However I have NO space to mount the empeg in *addition* to the stock unit, so I can just use it as another source as I did in the old Jeep. So I have to assemble my PCATS kit and install the unit as THE headunit.
I know for a fact that the inputs to the stock infinity amp are "speaker level" - as many people have told me how they replaced the factory headunit and just hooked up the speaker outs to the inputs with no problems. (Verified by crutchfield, etc).
Will the 4v preamp outs have enough "grunt" to drive the factory amp? Can anyone think of an easy way to boost the level or "match" it if I need to? Yes, swapping amps would be best, and I might have to do that.. But Id like to keep it if its financially sane to do so.
Comments??? Thanks!!
jeff
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Empeg Mk2a 60G
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#264683 - 07/09/2005 17:11
Re: Empeg 4v line-outs into Stock Infinity Gold amp?
[Re: jbrinkerhoff]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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I know you're right, but I've never understood this. If they're "speaker-level", why don't they just drive the speakers directly?
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Bitt Faulk
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#264684 - 07/09/2005 17:16
Re: Empeg 4v line-outs into Stock Infinity Gold amp?
[Re: jbrinkerhoff]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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As to an actual answer, check out PAC's OEM-1 and OEM-2.
This looks like exactly what you need. Heed the note there.
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Bitt Faulk
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#264685 - 07/09/2005 20:10
Re: Empeg 4v line-outs into Stock Infinity Gold amp?
[Re: jbrinkerhoff]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31565
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Yeah, odds are you will need some kind of interface. Not necessarily the OEM-1, but something at least. There should be a few brands out there to choose from by now. Basically what those little interfaces do is to add a convenient connector plug and a small low-power amplifier to your outputs.
Note that if you buy the OEM-1, it comes in three parts:
1. The empeg-side of the cable harness.
2. The OEM-1 box itself.
3. The car-side of the cable harness.
Remember to buy the correct doohickey for item number 1, which is the line-level RCA plugs.
And don't forget a dash fascia adapter of some kind.
here is a photo gallery of an OEM-1 interface installation session.
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#264686 - 07/09/2005 20:44
Re: Empeg 4v line-outs into Stock Infinity Gold amp?
[Re: tfabris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
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Not to hijack the thread, but can we get into this 'line level' stuff for a second, please?
My empeg will be the only unit in my install, so I've got this 4CH amp (snippet-doc attached).
The empeg manual says "The unit has high-level line outputs..."
The amp manual has inputs for 'high level' and 'low level'.
Sounds easy enough- high to high, right? Except that the empeg is RCA out and the 'high-level' amp inputs are bare wires, whereas the 'low-level' amp inputs are RCA.
So, my slightly off-topic question relative to the posted comments is:
How does 'line level in/output' score next to 'high/low-level in/output'?
And, my *totally* off-topic question is:
What would go 'poof' if I tried the easy route of RCA-to-RCA on my proposed amp? ('high' out to 'low' in)
As it is, I plan to go 'high-high' by soldering on some RCA plugs to the bare wires of the 'high-input' connections. If the simple route is possible, then I'll go with that.
Curiouser and curiouser...
Attachments
264553-amp-man-snip.jpg (1325 downloads)
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10101311 (20GB- backup empeg)
10101466 (2x60GB, Eutronix/GreenLights Blue) (Stolen!)
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#264687 - 07/09/2005 21:40
Re: Empeg 4v line-outs into Stock Infinity Gold amp?
[Re: Robotic]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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Nope, you want to plug the RCA's into the RCA's, no soldering necessary. The empeg has high level RCA's, but they're still not capable of driving anything more than a small pair of headphones. If your amp really only takes 1V RCA's, it may clip if you turn the empeg all the way up. The solution to this is to not turn it up that far. It's a voltage/resistance/current thing, which someone else can probably explain better than me.
Matthew
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#264688 - 07/09/2005 23:15
Re: Empeg 4v line-outs into Stock Infinity Gold amp?
[Re: Robotic]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31565
Loc: Seattle, WA
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To clarify:
When the empeg says "high level", it means 4v line-level, i.e., of the two line-level standards (1v and 4v), it's the higher of the two.
When the amplifier manual says "high level" it is using the term incorrectly. Perhaps they meant to say "high power" instead. They are talking about already-amplified speaker-level outputs. For example, connecting the speaker level outputs from a car stereo into the amplifier's speaker level inputs. Do not do this. Use the amplifier's line-level inputs, what it calls "low level" in its manual.
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#264689 - 08/09/2005 14:13
Re: Empeg 4v line-outs into Stock Infinity Gold amp?
[Re: Robotic]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
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Thank you, Matt and Tony!
That makes the install easier- and now I understand things better!
Glad I asked.
<me so excited... empeg in car soon!>
_________________________
10101311 (20GB- backup empeg)
10101466 (2x60GB, Eutronix/GreenLights Blue) (Stolen!)
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#264690 - 09/09/2005 12:30
Re: Empeg 4v line-outs into Stock Infinity Gold amp?
[Re: wfaulk]
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member
Registered: 02/04/2002
Posts: 148
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I think the main reason is so that the dealers can easily "swap" headunits around. Customer wants to "upgrade" to a different headunit, just plug and play. I know for a fact that all the chrysler headunits are low-power amp outputs (probably 10W or so), and are used "as is" in the non infinity systems. The infinity system amp expects "low power speaker level" inputs, whatever that equates to in car audio land.
I suppose, as according to that FAQ entry that Tony posted, if it expects 5V, will the empeg drive it directly? Or is this one of those "dont try it because the impedence is too low" things? (Actually, wouldnt the input impedence of the amp be HIGHER than normal? What are the empeg RCA outs designed to drive into?)
Jeff
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Empeg Mk2a 60G
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#264691 - 09/09/2005 16:21
Re: Empeg 4v line-outs into Stock Infinity Gold amp?
[Re: jbrinkerhoff]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31565
Loc: Seattle, WA
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It's not an impedance thing I don't think, it's more like, the empeg would be way way too quiet. Definitely get an adapter.
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#264692 - 09/09/2005 23:35
Re: Empeg 4v line-outs into Stock Infinity Gold amp?
[Re: tfabris]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
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Quote:
To clarify:
When the empeg says "high level", it means 4v line-level, i.e., of the two line-level standards (1v and 4v), it's the higher of the two.
When the amplifier manual says "high level" it is using the term incorrectly. Perhaps they meant to say "high power" instead. They are talking about already-amplified speaker-level outputs. For example, connecting the speaker level outputs from a car stereo into the amplifier's speaker level inputs. Do not do this. Use the amplifier's line-level inputs, what it calls "low level" in its manual.
Close, except that 'high power' would be worse. There is very little power involved because there is minimal current at this stage. 'Speaker level' would be the ideal term.
When the empeg was designed, most car audio was still using 1V line outs, so 4V was indeed high. In recent years 4V and even 8V line outs have started to become more common.
Speaker levels can run much higher - for a 4 ohm driver to hit 100W RMS the amplfier output has to be 20V RMS
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#264693 - 22/11/2005 22:54
Re: Empeg 4v line-outs into Stock Infinity Gold amp?
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Quote:
As to an actual answer, check out PAC's OEM-1 and OEM-2.
This looks like exactly what you need. Heed the note there.
Well the url doesn't work anymore but I assume it's now this, and the note is thus:
"Not all Chryslers with an Infinity Sound Systems need an interface. When using this interface, if the sound is low but balances and fades correctly, you do not need this interface."
Well, my sound is low but it fades and balances correctly. Conveniently they offer no hint as to what I do want.
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#264694 - 22/11/2005 23:04
Re: Empeg 4v line-outs into Stock Infinity Gold amp?
[Re: Daria]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Quote:
Well, my sound is low but it fades and balances correctly. Conveniently they offer no hint as to what I do want.
Oh. On their FAQ page:
". Q. On Chrylser or Dodge vehicles, I don't have alot of volume but everything fades and balances correctly.
A. These vehicles do not need an interface. You can use an aftermarket wire harness like from METRA and wire the aftermarket radio harness directly to it. Keep in mind that the radio must have speaker level out.
If you only get the front speakers to play and not the rears, then locate the factory amplifier remote wire and wire it to the aftermarket radio's remote wire."
Yeah, that's what I did. And the volume is low. Uh....
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#264695 - 22/11/2005 23:19
Re: Empeg 4v line-outs into Stock Infinity Gold amp?
[Re: Daria]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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Quote:
Keep in mind that the radio must have speaker level out.
Sounds like you need an amp?
Matthew
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#264696 - 22/11/2005 23:25
Re: Empeg 4v line-outs into Stock Infinity Gold amp?
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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It has an amp. What I need is their frob which raises the level of the empeg outs. Their note is just poorly worded.
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#264697 - 23/11/2005 02:13
Re: Empeg 4v line-outs into Stock Infinity Gold amp?
[Re: Daria]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Ok. So I guess I need a RAD-RCA, an AMP-CHR, the OEM-1 and a Scoshe VW01R
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#264698 - 23/11/2005 14:02
Re: Empeg 4v line-outs into Stock Infinity Gold amp?
[Re: Daria]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
their frob which raises the level of the empeg outs
Also known as an amplifier.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#264699 - 23/11/2005 17:23
Re: Empeg 4v line-outs into Stock Infinity Gold amp?
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Quote:
Quote:
their frob which raises the level of the empeg outs
Also known as an amplifier.
Yup. And when you say that people think you're getting one of those 150w jobs installed. I went in and told them what I wanted and they got confused. So I finally said "look, do you have the PAC OEM-1?" and of course they don't stock it. So they ordered it. Bah.
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#264700 - 23/11/2005 18:49
Re: Empeg 4v line-outs into Stock Infinity Gold amp?
[Re: Daria]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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I bet when you get it it's going to be the exact same thing you have now but modular and five times as expensive. That is, I couldn't find anything on PAC's site that says that the AMP-CHR works as an amplifier. I hope I'm wrong.
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Bitt Faulk
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#264701 - 23/11/2005 19:09
Re: Empeg 4v line-outs into Stock Infinity Gold amp?
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Nono, the AMP-CHR and RAD-RCA are just wiring harnesses, it's the OEM-1 which works as an amp.
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#264702 - 23/11/2005 19:25
Re: Empeg 4v line-outs into Stock Infinity Gold amp?
[Re: Daria]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Apparently I'm a doofus. I'm not sure what I thought the OEM-1 did.
Still, it bothers me that the OEM-1 FAQ says that you don't need the OEM-1 and implies that you should just deal with the low volume. From that implication I infer that it won't work correctly, since I don't see them avoiding a sale like that.
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Bitt Faulk
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#264703 - 23/11/2005 20:06
Re: Empeg 4v line-outs into Stock Infinity Gold amp?
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Quote:
Apparently I'm a doofus. I'm not sure what I thought the OEM-1 did.
Still, it bothers me that the OEM-1 FAQ says that you don't need the OEM-1 and implies that you should just deal with the low volume. From that implication I infer that it won't work correctly, since I don't see them avoiding a sale like that.
I had one in my hand (they had the Bose kit for an Onstar-equipped car, and it had one, but not the harness I needed) and the pots to adjust the level suggest it will do what I want.
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