#9737 - 22/06/2000 09:03
PhatBox
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new poster
Registered: 01/06/2000
Posts: 9
Loc: Atlanta, GA, US
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There's a new car player being demoed at the MP3 Summit. Uses a USB doc to transfer music, holds 5 GB at a time. fsteele Registration number 1430
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#9738 - 22/06/2000 09:24
Re: PhatBox
[Re: fsteele]
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member
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 135
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In reply to:
There's a new car player being demoed at the MP3 Summit.
Uses a USB doc to transfer music, holds 5 GB at a time.
Why is it that other ICE refer to their playback time in minutes, whereas empeg refers to their playback time in hours? 
As if 5000 minutes is supposed to be more impressive than 600 hours... or for that matter, 100 hours...
The math:
5000 minutes = 83 1/3 hours < 100 hours < 600 hours
Perhaps I'm being presumptuous... I think it's cute nevertheless.
Kureg
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#9739 - 22/06/2000 11:06
Re: PhatBox
[Re: fsteele]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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ouch, that web site really turned me off.
Calvin
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#9740 - 22/06/2000 21:52
Re: PhatBox
[Re: fsteele]
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addict
Registered: 04/02/2000
Posts: 687
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Poor Site, Poor Info
TeeMcBee
_________________________
TeeMcBee
[orange]Mk2, # 080000143, 40+30 GB, Tuner, Peugeot stalk hookup</font color=orange>
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#9741 - 22/06/2000 23:41
Re: PhatBox
[Re: eternalsun]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
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ouch, that web site really turned me off.Yeah, 1MB for three sentences. It seems that those guys considering themselves 'upmarket' don't care for potential buyers without at least a cable modem (or, more likely, don't understand there is such a thing as PPP channel throughput - the site looked fine when designers demoed it on 100Mbs LAN, right :) This reminds me of supposedly upscale e-retailer boo.com: it took me about five minutes of watching Flash animation of dubious quality just to see a sneaker they were selling. No info on material, size details etc. No need to try and look them up: they just went belly up. The guys who were backing them up financially (owners of some luxury French brands like Moet or Dior) just started their own site. No megabyte-sized animation there, but one brand of cigars, one brand of foie-gras, just two or three kinds of ridiculously overpriced cheese.... Do people think that only idiots have some spare cash? Once again, three hurrays for empeg guys! Cheers! Dragi "Bonzi" Raos Zagreb, Croatia #5196
_________________________
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Q#5196
MkII #080000376, 18GB green
MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue
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#9742 - 22/06/2000 23:44
Re: PhatBox
[Re: fsteele]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
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Interesting: each new MP3 gadget offering seems to just underscore empeg's uniqueness...
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
#5196
_________________________
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Q#5196
MkII #080000376, 18GB green
MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue
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#9743 - 23/06/2000 00:10
Re: PhatBox
[Re: bonzi]
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addict
Registered: 04/02/2000
Posts: 687
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I think that has 2 reasons: One reason is that the guys@empeg are working on such a project for quite a while now and it seems they have quite a lot of experience what the users want/need and try to realize that in their unit. The other reason is that other companies begin to realize that mp3 is a cool thing and now try to make some quick money in throwing kind of cheap devices on the market as quick as possible without thinking about what will really meet the customers (or clients ) need. That's what it seems to be to me. TeeMcBee
_________________________
TeeMcBee
[orange]Mk2, # 080000143, 40+30 GB, Tuner, Peugeot stalk hookup</font color=orange>
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#9744 - 23/06/2000 03:58
Re: PhatBox
[Re: fsteele]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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The major problem with this approach is the UI - you're stuck with your standard head unit autochanger controls. In other words, 6 or 10 "CD's" with 99 tracks per "disc". No way to search for tracks, artists, hierarchical playlists etc etc.
We're very familiar with the limitations (and one or two hacks to improve upon them SLIGHTLY) because we designed a very similar product for Visteon.
The plus side is that it's easy to install, works well with stereos that are integrated into the dash, and very simple to use. We designed our product for the very low-tech but relatively high-budget consumer. Their price point is about right if they sell plenty of them, but it doesn't suggest top quality components - but who knows, I can't find any tech data whatsoever on their web site.
Rob
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#9745 - 23/06/2000 17:28
Re: PhatBox
[Re: eternalsun]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5539
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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ouch, that web site really turned me off.
Am I just getting old, or do other people have trouble trying to read dark red type on a black background...
tanstaafl.
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#9746 - 25/06/2000 08:41
Re: PhatBox
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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enthusiast
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 356
Loc: NORWAY
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Hehe, you and me both.
I hate pages like those.............
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#9747 - 26/06/2000 00:06
Re: PhatBox
[Re: fsteele]
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member
Registered: 24/06/1999
Posts: 118
Loc: Chile
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What a terrible site. Ugly, devoid of useful information.... the total opposite to the Empeg site. Again a thanks to Empeg for being so clear and well-focused.
_________________________
[orange] Reggie [/orange] - 030102316 - First EMPEG in Latin America (right? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)
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#9748 - 26/06/2000 08:08
Re: PhatBox
[Re: Reggie]
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enthusiast
Registered: 22/03/2000
Posts: 217
Loc: West Midlands, England
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In reply to:
...devoid of useful information...
So much so in fact, that I find it hard to believe that they've actually produced any product yet.
Also, if they're limiting it to emulate a CD changer and they've got 5000 minutes capacity, then for a 6 disc compatible head unit, you're talking an average track time of about 8.5 minutes (5000 minutes capacity divided by 6 "CD's" divided by 99 "tracks") to fill the unit. Who on earth has an average track time of 8.5 minutes across their entire CD collection?
With an average track time of, say, 4 minutes - which I think is much more reasonable, you've only got a maximum capacity of 2500 minutes.
Or am I missing something?
Nick.
--
#8724
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18GB red s/n 080000299
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#9749 - 26/06/2000 16:15
Re: PhatBox
[Re: Kureg]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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We saw the Phatbox at the mp3 summit; it's not in production yet, but I would say it's only about 4 months from shipping (though I didn't get to see the insides of the unit - the casings were almost there, though there's no shock mounting of the HDDs and no ram caching of audio on playback yet either).
It deals with the 10CDs x 99tracks by having multiple discs (eg, disc 1 will refer to 2 discs, whose CD-TEXT info comes up differently). It's all a bit of a kludge, but that's the problem with CD-busses. Still, it's cheap (though I find it hard to believe they'll actually ship at $499 - more likely $599 or above when product starts to ship if you ask me) and a good first step for people not famiiar with mp3s.
Hugo
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#9751 - 26/06/2000 16:29
Re: PhatBox
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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I'm not dissing it! The Phatbox people themselves know their box isn't as nice as an empeg, but on the other hand there are a lot of people out there who will pay $600 for a HD-based cd-changer replacement who wouldn't shell out $1200 for the (imho ;) ) superior empeg unit.
I can see no problem with the two players co-existing happily and not really interfering with each other: come on, these are the only two HDD-based in-car mp3 players even near the market that address the problem at hand in a sensible fashion - I don't think the market is overly crowded :)
Hugo
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#9752 - 26/06/2000 16:40
Re: PhatBox
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31564
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I dunno, Hugo. That prior post sure sounded like "damning with faint praise". You know I'm just giving you a hard time, of course. I know that, having gone through the painful process of trying to bring a complex piece of hardware to market, you have a lot of respect for anyone who can do it. By the same token, I'd suggest to everyone else in this forum that the Phatbox people deserve the resepect of us all for that very same reason. You're right in that the product is targeting a different customer than the Empeg is, and therefore isn't technically direct competition. And I'm sure it's a great product for those who want it as a CD-Changer-style add-on. After using the Empeg, though, I just can't ever imagine navigating my music collection via discs and tracks. And I have to agree that their web site is a bit bandwidth-heavy while being quite content-light. ___________
Tony Fabris
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#9753 - 26/06/2000 22:40
Re: PhatBox
[Re: altman]
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journeyman
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 57
Loc: New Zealand
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"these are the only two HDD-based in-car mp3 players even near the market"Does the neo not qualify as competition?
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#9754 - 27/06/2000 04:02
Re: PhatBox
[Re: bryan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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> Does the neo not qualify as competition?
Sure it does, aside from the fact that it won't actually fit in most cars (far too deep).
Rob
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#9755 - 27/06/2000 14:07
Re: PhatBox
[Re: tfabris]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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If they fix the web site, then maybe they'll get a little more respect. In the mean time, it is a free for all. Consider this, a web site is the most public face a company can position, so a web site represents the company in spirit and as a result the quality of the web site says a lot about the quality of the company's products or services. Probably why empeg put a bit of money into improving the empeg.com site. And if phatbox.com is all gaude and glimmer with little substance, what does that say about the product?
Calvin
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#9756 - 28/06/2000 01:40
Re: PhatBox
[Re: fsteele]
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new poster
Registered: 28/06/2000
Posts: 1
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Posters,
In regards to the phatnoise.com site, please bear with us! Our flash-happy site designer has been scolded... :)
Well the site is only 1 week old, before which we have done nothing but prepare for the mp3 summit. We have been working on a site redesign, though, so stay tuned.
Hugo, I think we both agree that the two products target two different markets: the empeg unit is for the customer who wants a head unit uniquely designed for mp3 playback, with all the features that a customized UI can bring. The PhatBox is for customers who do not want to change the head unit they already have (i.e., integrated into their car), or prefer other commercially available head units (because of CD or MD playback, looks, brand etc.), but want mp3 capability integrated with it.
Anyways, thanks for the feedback.
cheers,
benyamin
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#9757 - 28/06/2000 08:32
Re: PhatBox
[Re: benyamin]
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member
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 135
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There he is! Beat him up!  Just kidding of course :) Kureg
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#9758 - 28/06/2000 08:48
Re: PhatBox
[Re: benyamin]
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veteran
Registered: 16/06/1999
Posts: 1222
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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welcome to our little niche:) the flash site wouldn't be so bad if we could bypass it and get more information:) The scrolling takes forever on my laptop though.. (celeron 300/fast network connect)
-mark
...proud to have owned one of the first Mark I units
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#9759 - 28/06/2000 16:01
Re: PhatBox
[Re: Kureg]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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Actually quite good of him to show up. Brownie points ++ but now they have to put these words into action and spiff up their site to acceptability... ;)
Calvin "snobby"
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#9760 - 28/06/2000 16:40
Re: PhatBox
[Re: eternalsun]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5539
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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Actually quite good of him to show up.
Ummm... that's kind of my fault, I guess. I e-mailed them and pointed them to the beginning of this thread and suggested that they look upon some of the less kind things being said as constructive criticism with no malice intended. I got a pretty nice e-mail in return, too:
Thanks Douglas. We are actively improving our website everyday. We have a
non-flash version that will be up very shortly. Constructive criticism is
always appreciated. Let us know if you have any specific questions about
our products.
So, let's see if they keep their promises!
tanstaafl.
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#9761 - 03/07/2000 01:27
Re: PhatBox
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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new poster
Registered: 03/07/2000
Posts: 1
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The first time I went to check out the Phatnoise website, I saw too that it was pretty content-"less". The animation was cool to watch on a speedy DSL line, but back home on a traditional modem, it was less than enjoyable.
However, I did notice on their front page they had put something about a new site being up by July 5th? Apparently they are ahead of schedule because when I checked this weekend, an entirely new site had been put up. Only the introductory animation remains (which thank goodness you can still bypass by hitting the "skip" button).
And I must say that the new site looks pretty good. Nice clean graphics, much easier to navigate, animation is at a minimum, and much more content! I would definitely recommend checking out the new site.
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#9762 - 03/07/2000 08:30
Re: PhatBox
[Re: dofoogan]
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veteran
Registered: 16/06/1999
Posts: 1222
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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MUCH nicer:)
-mark
...proud to have owned one of the first Mark I units
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#9763 - 03/07/2000 14:14
Re: PhatBox
[Re: dionysus]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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I agree. I took a cursory glance at the site and it's a million times improved. I'll check it out in a couple of days.
Calvin
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