so how the hell do you get started in all this?! (sorry for the thread jacking... we can start another if you wish)

Don't worry about the thread jacking. If a little bump helps somebody notice my SBC quest, that's OK!!! (I've e-mailed a company called Applied Data about their Bitsy board...

Where to get started? Well, a member of this Bay Area club came up from Berkeley for No Alibi, does the occasional BC rally IIRC, did the Winter Alcan in 2000 and is signed up to run the Winter Alcan again this coming February. Pete might be able to answer an e-mail or meet up. The West Coast Rally Assn runs both stage and "brisk" gravel TSDs and their Web page has a "getting started" page albeit with some dead links.

So, to compare:

TSD Rallies

Cost of entry $10-$2000 depending on what kind of rallying you want to do. Most folks start with the $10 stopwatch and clipboard and then gradually add equipment to suit their interest. Cost to rally say $100 to $2000 a year for a team of 2 depending on how far you want to go and how many rallies. Rallies range from "trap" and "gimmick" rallies which are more of a logic/navigation puzzle to touring rallies (many on gravel) that pose a challenge to keeping speeds under sometimes dubious conditions. Some touring rallies, like the Alcans, are something of an endurance event and can include things like ice slaloms. Other rallies (like the interesting-looking Targa Newfoundland ) combine stage *and* touring TSDs in one event.

Stage Rallies

Cost of entry: From $10,000 to > $1,000,000. Cost to operate? From, say $10,000 to $10,000,000+ per year. On the low end in the US, the sponsoring body of the so-called Club rallies is the SCCA. Used cars in North America can be found at Ben's Rally Page. You have to be prepared for the loss of the car. No insurance! Stage rallying is what you tyically see on Speed TV whether immensely expensive (WRC) or just very, very expensive (SCCA Pro Rally). Most of the folks who run in Pro rally are "in the biz" I think -- run a garage or a prep shop. Or they are living off an inheritance.

Some folks start in TSD and move on to stage rallies, but that's not to say that there is a lot of carryover. There are basic similarities: driver/navigator and a set of instructions. "Tulip" instructions used in stage rallies are much like those used in touring TSDs.

I would love to stumble across enough money for us to buy an old Mazda 323GTX or something and campaign it at about 90 percent of our driving ability in Club Rallies, but that still means about $20,000 for year one. Not in the cards. For now, we're having enough fun driving up gravel at 60-70 percent while trying not to have *that* discussion with the insurance company!

Tony: The ones on TV are high powered vehicles going through "Special Stages" where they try to get from point A to B the fastest possible.

Yes, earliest wins where in TSD early or late are equally bad... "Public Roads" is, I think, the operative term from an insurance standpoint.

Unless you make a wrong turn and have to catch up.. We bitch about missed turns or bad calcs, but it is funny how making up 2 minutes at 20 MPH over CAST over slush, ice and mud are the parts we enjoy! Until we wind up like these guys who passed us last November...

There's a great Grand Canyon rally coming up in January 2005, but I won't post the link because it may qualify as the worst Web page in the world!