There is another aspect to this. A big chunk of the target market does not have an existing MP3 (or whatever) collection. To them, words like ATRAC or MP3 mean nothing - they just want to put a disc in, wait and put in another to "store" them. They don't want to use any PC they might have to rip, catalog and transfer them. For this audience, the Eclipse/Camelot approach is perfect. The car journey is often the chunk of their music listening time anyway.

The issue that always comes up in conversations with OEMs about this is the problem of the "initial load" or what to do with your collection when you change cars (esp. if it is an OEM version). There are many ways to approach this from dealer services, to a home power supply for ripping a good chunk of your collection before installation. But, if the ripping speed is decent (and you can listen while you rip), it is surprising how quickly you can build up a decent collection on a normal commute. When I first tried the Pioneer one, the single speed ripping had me fed up in no time at all, especially after being spoilt by the empeg alternatives.

For those that have a collection already, providing a way to transfer that collection easily (even before installation) is important, and then new additions can be added as and when. Of course, then we are into how to keep the CDDB up to date (the Eclipse one appears several months out-of-date already). This is what I think will be a bigger issue than the ripping itself, as it is one thing to wait a few minutes while the CD rips, and quite another to then have to enter the tags yourself on the unit so you can actually choose music usefully.

Overall, the no-PC-needed solution will expand the appeal of HDD-players to a wider audience.

Mind you, I have no answer to the US Manager who, on being shown a 400-disc capacity empeg prototype dismissed it with "Why don't I just keep those discs in the glovebox and I can just choose which to put in the player?". I know you guys make your cars big, but....!!

Nick