> Anyway, tha analogy of DVD to MP3 isn't quite an apples to apples example.

So you keep saying and so I keep disputing and I think it is a case of not seeing the forest for the trees. It is all about how patents on DVD technologies force manufacturers to agree to restrictions outside of what is covered by the patents in order to gain access to those patents to the detrimant of the consumer. Fraunhofer's exceptionally broad patents on MP3 technologies could easily be used to cause all commercially sold MP3 products to contain restrictions that are detrimantal to consumers too. It doesn't matter that a DVD can have the macrovision optionally set - it is the fact that you can't buy a licensed player that ignores the bit regardless of its setting that is the relevant detail in the comparison with DVDs.

As for LAME - you ought to take a listen to what Franhofer has been saying for the last 7+ years - they claim their patents cover any encoding to MP3 format, basically if you output an MP3 you've used their patented algorithms, no matter how you got there. So, any unlicensed encoders are in violation. Fraunhofer makes similar claims for MP3 decoders, but more experienced people than I tend to think those claims are far weaker than the ones on for encoding. Nevertheless, I expect that SB pays royalties to Fraunhofer for the decoder in the empeg - I suspect they use a package of routines provided by ARM that includes the royalties in the purchase price.

> Advertising "Ogg Vorbis" will occupy shelf space.

Chicken-or-the-egg. I think I've made it pretty clear how support for vorbis across the entire rio line would be a long-term profitable benefit to SB.