Hi!

I got a windows iPod this week, and now I'm filling it up with mp3's. I've uploaded 15gig now, so it's about 3/4ths full.

It has become painfully clear to me that the iPod's firmware/software is in no way as advanced as the Empeg's is, especially when I ran into this problem :

As I stated in a previous post here the iPod is incapable of working with directories. Instead it reads the ID3 tags of all the uploaded files and throws everything together in one big soup. (sorted by artist, track, genre,...)

This is a problem because this has led to the phenomenon where I have A LOT of artists in my library with only one or two songs. (all those artists are sorted on my Empeg under the directory "Top 40", but as said before, this doesn't work with the iPod). This a hassle.

I decided to lessen this hassle by creating some playlists, which more or less simulate the directory structure on my Empeg. So I created 11 playlists. For Top40, for disco, for rock and for dance, for each genre two or three (depending how big the category was) differently shuffled playlists.

But this is the problem : when I try and upload those 11 playlists by synching, my iPod claims there is not enough room on it to upload them (there is still 5 gig free space left). So I guess that WITH the playlists, the iPod (or musicmatch) also tries to upload the tracks it's refering to. Clearly, this is not my intention. The tracks are already on the player, all that is needed now is that those 11 small *.m3u files worth 400Kb together (I checked) get uploaded onto the player so I can start using them.
What am I doing wrong? I tried using "selected playlist synchronisation" as the help file states, but that gave me the same result.

Any help is much appreciated.

Well, I don't have an iPod, but here goes. How are you making the playlists? When you make one, aren't you referring to tracks on your hard disk? If so, I don't see any way that the iPod would know what you're talking about once you load it the player, since the directory structure has been lost. I'm sure it just keeps track of which track is which when you upload the playlists by uploading the songs as well. I think that's kinda dumb, but hey, some people here like the soup mode...

I made them in musicmatch itself.
I made a music library in musicmatch of now about 15gig worth of mp3's. This is a custom made library from the 60gig of mp3's that are actually on my Pc's HD.
I then manually choose each file from that library that I wanted to be in a specific playlist. Yes, this was A LOT of work. I had to check 2000+ files four times (and swore a lot). I then saved that playlist.
I repeated this process 4 times, until I had a playlist for each genre of mp3's. I reshuffled some genres two or three times and save those too, because otherwise it would become boring listening to the same order of tracks every single time.

I then tried to upload those playlists, which failed.
Here's how I thought it worked :
The playlists made in MM refer to MM's own library. The library then keeps track of where the files are on the HD.
If this entire library is copied first to the iPod (which it is), I see no reason why this shouldn't work since the playlists are not referring to a certain spot on the HD, but rather to a certain field in the library (database).

At least that's how I thought it worked. MM could have gone about this entirely different, in which case the playlists could only work if the files they refer to also get uploaded when syncing. I sure hope this isn't the case, because that would truely suck.
This approach of not keeping the file structure might have been workable with the first generation of iPod's (the 5gig version), but it sure isn't with the 20gig version. Everything gets clouded and and it's hard to find anything back it this thick mist. I can 't believe the creators of the iPod haven't thought about that. Even the Neo35 did this! (and that's saying a LOT )

the iPod (or musicmatch) also tries to upload the tracks it's refering to

This is Musicmatch's fault. Xplay gets this right IIRC (but I haven't used it since we got a Mac in the office).

Peter

I'm pretty sure that those playlists wouldn't work once loaded onto the iPod. It just sounds like the iPod strips any structure from the files and pours them into the soup.

You definitely have an example of a downside to the soup mode here. I would be in that boat as well if it happened to me. I'm willing to bet, however, that there's some other way to create playlists for the iPod.

Do you have any idea if Xplay supports the windows Ipod? Their site doesn't mention it and neither does their FAQ, so I guess not.
I know it's possibele to reformat a windows iPod back to a MAC iPod, but that's stretching it a bit too far I believe. (especially since it can't be formatted bacl to PC if needed to)

Do you have all those problems I mentioned too with the MAC iPod when using iTunes?

Do you have all those problems I mentioned too with the MAC iPod when using iTunes?

Well, Itunes won't import directory structure as playlists either, so I guess that's a yes. I haven't tried handing it playlists yet (I loaded it all up with one of the Xplay betas, and have only fiddled with it since in Itunes).

Peter

The only way I've been able to upload playlist to my iPod without duplicating files is to eliminate the files that will be in the playlist from the iPod first, then upload the playlist songs and all. It sucks, but that's how I do it. What I've resorted to, is allowing duplicates to exist on the iPod so I can have the same song exist in multiple playlists. The Music Match software is a Joke (capital "J"). I can't figure out how you're really meant to use it. At this point, I think it's software isn't very well thought out. Maybe if I wasn't familiar with Emplode, it would be easier to get along with the Music Match stuff but I doubt it.

Hey Archeon, here's what I can tell you:

I tried the situation you're in and came across the same issue you're reporting. When I tried uploading a playlist, it insisted on uploading duplicates of the files that were already on the player. Another guy suggested trying to copy an .m3u straight onto the iPod via the explorer, but it looks like the iPod maintains its own special directory structure, so that was nixed.

I have entered this issue into our bug tracking system. One of the engineers should take a look at it today or tomorrow and see if they can fix this or make an enhancement to address the situation.

Until then, you can create a playlist on the iPod and drag and drop files (already on the iPod) into it. The one down side to this is that if you want to have a file in more than one playlist, you'll need to have duplicate files. I don't think the iPod uses as smart a system as the empeg does.

Bodybag : exactly how I felt! I mean, this player costs about twice of what it's closest competitor costs and even the most basic stuff (like maintaining a directory structure) it can't do.
Man, I've been spoilt by my Empeg. It's sad it's taken me another 650EUR player to realise that.

svferris :
thanks for your quick replie ! I can't believe I'm the first to report this!
You are correct when you state that copying files though explorer doesn't work. The iPod's FAQ clearly states that. It seems that a copy via explorer is only convenient when using the iPod in "portable HD mode", but not if you want to actually play the files.

I sure hope your engineers can fix this issue soon, because it's driving me absolutely bonkers. If they can't adress it in the next few weeks expect to see an iPod for sale in the "for sale" forum soon.
Stating that the system of the iPod is not as smart as the one of the Empeg is the understatement of the year. I mean, my NEO35 was smarter than that! So far my impression of the iPod is : nice package, but very little else. (I feel a dumb blonde joke coming up... )

I'll keep ya posted on if I hear something.

I'm actually curious if there is a similar problem with the Mac version. Anybody here have a Mac iPod? How does it handle playlist synchronisation? I wonder if it's a software problem or a hardware problem.

I don't know myself because I wasn't personally involved with the iPod project.

Anybody here have a Mac iPod? How does it handle playlist synchronisation?

My Ipod is a Mac one, and although I haven't tried adding m3u files to it using Xplay, if I drag-and-drop from my PC onto a playlist, it doesn't create a duplicate file if that same file is already on the Ipod somewhere else. (This makes it smarter than Emplode, not dumber.) If it's smart enough to do that for individual files, it's almost certainly smart enough to do it for playlists.

Peter

If that's the case, than it must be a software issue. A bunch of us were discussing it today, but none of us could figure out if it was HW vs. SW since we weren't directly involved with the project. The people who were are in a different office, so I can't just stroll over to their desk and ask. Hopefully I'll get a response soon, though.