Okay, finally got my hands on an MKIIa, now for the installation questions. I bought the truck off the lot, so it came with a factory am/fm cassette, 4-speaker system (non-amplified). The premium system has spaces for seven speaker locations. The 6X9's in the doors have to be replaced with 6.5's, becuase the auto window gear mechanism would interfere with most aftermarket 6X9's. There are 5.25's in the rear panels, which I'll be replacing with the same size. There are spaces on the dash for 3.5's, and a center 2.5.

So, what I'm thinking, is that I'll need an amplifier (obviously), to run the 6.5's, 5.25's, and new 3.5's in the dash. I'm leaning towards getting a sub, but I'm not into the huge competition bass, and I don't have a lot of room (looking at 8"). The room issue also comes into play with the amp. I'm considering a 5-channel at the moment, running the 3.5's and 6.5's with the front, the 5.25's with the rear, and the sub on the fifth channel. I'm not extremely experienced with amplifier operation or installation, so I'll probably have that done by a professional.

THE SUB - As I said, I'm looking to get a smaller sub, only to fill out the sound range, not for super bass. There will be times, however, that I would like to have a little thump. I listen to basically every kind of music, rap to bluegrass to classical to alternative (no opera, I guess). I am wanting this install to be as stealth as possible, not trying to advertise a system for stealing. I've looked at JL Audio Stealthboxes that replace the center seat with a downfiring 10", and are covered with the factory upholstery. The problem (along with the price tag) is that it was designed for 2001 and below Rams, that don't have a storage compartment under the seat. Basically, I'm kind of strapped for room. I travel quite a bit, so I need the space behind the seats. I've thought about putting the sub and the amp under the seats. But, under the driver's seat are power seat components. Under the passenger seat is the jack. If any of you are familiar with the Ram, there is a decently sized storage compartment under the center seat. I've contemplated placing the amp in the compartment and the sub behind the center console. I'm not sure of amp dimensions, so as of right now, I'm assuming the amp won't fit and I'm thinking of taking up a project to fiberglass a custom sub box for an 8" sub in the center storage compartment. Again, this is something I've never done, but I've found plenty of info on it. There are a few questions I have about the sub firing upward into the seat (no one ever sits there) because the seat is latched to the compartment, and I'm worried about rattles and such. Should I be? If the amp would fit in the compartment space, it would cure a lot of problems, or I guess I could always end up moving the jack. As you can see it's all up in the air right now. Also, I assume each sub comes with specifications for airspace requirements? I think the compartment would suffice, and it would be another unique feature in a truck equipped with the greatest head unit on the planet.

THE SPEAKERS - I'm not really loyal to a certain brand, but I've been looking mainly at Infinity Kappas. Not any reason, they're just a decent brand, and they've been recommended on Dodge sites. I would be open to any decent brand (Fosgate, Eclipse, MB Quart). I'm not sure that the 3.5's in the dash are absolutely necessary, but I've heard good things about the sound reflecting off of the windshield. I'm not a huge audiophile (I've ripped all my mp3s at 128kbs - BLASPHEMY!!), but I'm going to want to hear quality music after dishing out the cash.

THE AMP - Would a five channel be sufficient in this situation? As soon as I mentioned a sub to a Circuit City employee, he recommended a four channel and a two channel. Maybe that was because they don't sell the fives, or maybe he knew what he was talking about. I don't really have the room to place two amps, and I don't see a second dedicated amp for the sub being necessary. I guess I could go with a four, and wire all the speakers into the front and isolate the sub on the rear.

THE INSTALL - The last install project that I was a part of, dealt with a cassette player, amp, and sub in a 95 Dakota when I was 15 or so. It didn't go so hot, but that was before the INTERNET!!!!! I'm more comfortable now with taking apart my vehicle and messing with the components. I've already taken the dash apart countless times, cleaning stuff, keyless entry install, and correcting an install of a mp3 changer (which by the way I will be selling). I'm comfortable with installing the speakers, sound dampening, and the adapter plates, but I'm not sure I would be the best at rewiring the system. I don't feel like paying for each speaker to be installed when I could do it myself. All the wire will be coming from the amp, so I'm wondering if a pro could do the amp work and the wiring and not charge me an arm and a leg. But, then again, he'll have the truck tore open, so it would be easier if it was all done at the same time. I'm assuming that because all the wires must be ran through the amp, that all of the factory speaker wire will be worthless. I'll probably leave that wiring, as I'm planning on selling the truck eventually with the factory system intact.

I've read through the Installation FAQ's, but I have another. The ISO harness that comes with the Empeg has 6 wires. The connector to the factory system has countless. I know that there will be wires that aren't connected. I'm wondering about the amp turn on output from the Empeg. Does that run directly to the amp, and if so, what is the amp turn on coming from the factory system for? I assume that it is an input to the amp, but it runs to the factory head unit???? There is no factory amp (which by the way, in Infinity systems is behind the glovebox, if you were wondering), so is that wire currently serving a purpose?

If there are any suggestions or warnings, feel free. I'll post pics later for those that are interested.

I'm wondering about the amp turn on output from the Empeg. Does that run directly to the amp

Yes, it should be connected directly to the amp's remote turn on wire. Just like any other stereo installation.

and if so, what is the amp turn on coming from the factory system for? I assume that it is an input to the amp, but it runs to the factory head unit???? There is no factory amp (which by the way, in Infinity systems is behind the glovebox, if you were wondering), so is that wire currently serving a purpose?

Assuming that your information is correct about that wire's identification: Odds are, that wire is not connected to anything at its other end. It would most likely only be used if the car had come with the premium sound system option. (A factory amp.)

In most cases, all of the various dealer and upgrade options on modern cars are plug-in affairs. So, to make manufacturing easy, every trim level of a given car will have the same wiring harnesses even if some of the wires on the harnesses aren't connected to anything.

For instance, you've mentioned that there are speaker locations on your car which have no factory-installed speakers in those locations. When you remove the necessary panels to install speakers there, you'll most likely discover perfectly good speaker wires waiting for you. If you get the right adapter plugs, you can plug your new speakers into those wires without having to cut them. Of course, the other end of those factory speaker wires probably don't go to your desired amp location, but that's for you to work out.

My fault, I was thinking that the factory amp turn on wire was coming from somewhere, like a power source. Guess that wouldn't make sense, though. I guess all the power came into the deck, then out to the amp. That was an obvious one.

Thanks

Actually, the amp would have a power, ground, and switch. The wire you're referring to will go to the switch. It's just a signal to the amp to turn on. It gets all its real power from another source.

From trucks I have seen, there is plenty of room behind the seats of a Reg Cab dodge for amp and whatever subs you want, I would suggest either goin to souddomain.com and looking around for intalls, or goin to dodgetrucks.org or dodgetalk.com, places like those to see what other people have done, you would be suprised with the creativity people use. I have a 2003 Quad Cab Dodge myself and I am about to fiberglass the rear under seat storage for some subs.

If there are any suggestions or warnings, feel free.

Just a few generalized thoughts, here.

1) Make the subwoofer a high priority. A subwoofer isn't about booming; it's about hearing the music the way it was recorded. Find someone with a pickup truck and a good, high-end stereo installation, and listen to some of your music in it. Then, have him turn off the subwoofer and play the same music. I promise you, you will be convinced.

2) A subwoofer is 10" or larger. (Yes, I know there are some high-end 8" speakers in special boxes that are supposed to give good results. Maybe so, I haven't heard them so I can't endorse them.) My preference is a single 10" sub in a small box. A 10" is nice and crisp sounding and is responsive enough to cross over at higher frequencies which will add presence and warmth to the sound. 12" and (God forbid!) 15" speakers, unless you want to spend a lot of money (literally thousands of dollars) tend to be boomy and have limited frequency range. Again, just my experience, there may be stuff out there I don't know about.

3) Amplifiers are always a compromise between size, price, power, and quality, and striking the right balance is difficult. But in every case, all else being equal,more power is better. More power doesn't mean more volume. (Maximum volume is a function of your speakers, assuming you have at least the minimum amount of power to drive them to their safe limits). More power means you can play the system quieter and still have it sound good. When an amplifier isn't stressed to its limits, it can provide a cleaner sound without clipping. If you aren't a serious audiophile who uses an RTA meter to make sure there aren't deficiencies in the sound inaudible to the human ear, then I would compromise quality in favor of power -- up to a point. The tricky part is determining that point.

4) If you've spent much time on this bbs, you've read this before, but I'll tell you again, and you still won't believe me so I reserve the right to say "I told you so" about a year down the road. Spend a lot of time getting your tag information exactly, perfectly right when you're putting music in your player. The temptation will be to get as much music in as fast as you can, and fix the "small stuff" later. Take your time, spend about as much time on tagging as you do ripping and encoding and uploading. You will find it to be time very well spent.

tanstaafl.

Yeah, there is some room behind the seats, and I've been on dodgetrucks.org, but again, I need as much room back there for suitcases and other storage. I had originally passed on the idea of putting any equipment back there, because I didn't really want anything to be visible from outside the truck. I'm not going for a "show quality" install.

I was simply saying that I didn't think I would have much room under the seats for an amp or a slimline sub. The more installs that I've looked through suggest mounting the amp to the underside of the seat. I'm not sure if that's even possible, but it would keep it out of the water and mud that would get tracked in.

I'm still thinking about fiberglassing the middle compartment, but also thinking about putting in a box that "flows" with the center console, making it appear to extend to the back of the cab. I assume that I could coat it with vinyl to match the cab upholstery. But a mount back there would bring up rattling issues with the plastic tray (which I would like to keep) behind the seats.

Also, I've looked at the Metra faceplate, and I was wondering if there was anyway to get rid of the "wet" look. It seems to shine more than the surrounding components. Seems like a small detail, but it would be noticeable.

A subwoofer is 10" or larger. (Yes, I know there are some high-end 8"

Is there like a standard that says that? I have a reasonably good quality 8" speaker (subwoofer?) in a sealed enclosure that rounds out the bass tones nicely. I can't tell much difference between it and my friends that have a 10" subwoofer, but admittedly, I haven't done any objective testing.

Is there like a standard that says that?

Naaah... just my personal bias. But before you consider a smaller speaker to be a true subwoofer, check out the specifications. Just because it can produce output at 30 Hz doesn't mean it is doing so at a useful level. The volume may be rolling off at 12--24 dB per octave, so that the really low frequencies while technically there will be virtually inaudible.

Larger speakers produce lower frequencies. (Well, Doh! Nothing like stating the obvious, right?) I can see where an 8" speaker would "round out the bass tones" but you might be missing out on the lowest frequencies.

tnstaafl.

A subwoofer is 10" or larger. (Yes, I know there are some high-end 8"

Is there like a standard that says that?

Funny I should read this post only seconds after reading this article.

you might be missing out on the lowest frequencies.

Like the ones that make you lose bowel control?

if you need to save as much space as possible, I would suggest a truck box with a small sub box sub such as a kicker solobaric and a single channel amp, you may be able to find one small enough to fit into the center console but you can definetly fit one under the seats, I have a rockford 800.2 under my driver seat, it doesnt leave any room at all and its real fun to get under there but it will go.

So, for the amp, would a five channel be sufficient to run 5.25" mids, 6.5" 3-ways, and 3.5" mid/tweeter, and sub? I guess the four channels would be adequate to run 6 speakers?

Also, I'm still kind of lost as to just how much power I need in the amp. Speaking in RMS terms, the 3.5's rate at 35W, the 5.25's at 55W, 6.5's at 75W (these are the high end of the ranges starting at 2W). The sub ranges from 75 to 350W RMS.

Again, I'm not going for tons of bass, and I probably won't be cranking it too often. So, do I need an amp to accommodate all of the high end RMS ratings? (2X35+2X55+2X75+350)? Or would a 40-60W channel power a 75W rated speaker well enough? Most of the 5-channel amps that I looked at had a dedicated sub channel around 100-200W. Any thoughts?

Any thoughts?

Well, yes.

My first competition stereo car had a total of 150 watts output: a 100 watt amplifier driving a pair of 4"/1" coaxials in the dash plus a 5.25" center channel; a pair of 6.5" speakers in the doors; and another pair of 6.5" speakers in the roof (station wagon); and then a second, 50 watt amplifier drove a single 10" dual-voice-coil subwoofer.

The car sounded really good, and either won or at least placed in the top three in every competition I entered it in. The car was not loud. It would only hit 112--115 dB in the SPL portion of the competitions, and indeed this was why I placed second or third in a few events, I got beaten by systems that gained enough SPL points to overcome my sound quality advantage.

That said, 112 dB is still louder than you would ever want to play your stereo, unless the object is to annoy/impress onlookers.

A 4x40 (or 4x60) plus a 100 watt sub channel is plenty of power if what you want to do is sound good, not ridiculously loud.

Still, if you are unreasonably serious about sound quality, then more power is better. You'll get a cleaner signal with less distortion at normal listening levels, and at very quiet levels the sound won't go all "thin" on you. And you'll be able to annoy/impress onlookers as well.

tanstaafl.

So would jumping from a 40X4, 120X1 to a 50X4, 200X1 be worth a hundred bucks? (Alpine F320 to F450)