#234594 - 22/09/2004 17:16
Motorcyclist ticketed for going 140mph OVER the speed limit
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old hand
Registered: 20/03/2002
Posts: 729
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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- trs
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#234595 - 22/09/2004 18:12
Re: Motorcyclist ticketed for going 140mph OVER the speed limit
[Re: trs24]
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old hand
Registered: 17/01/2003
Posts: 998
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My mid-life-crisising older brother just mentioned a couple of weeks ago he hit 206 MPH. Yes, he is nuts too but at least he’s live half his life.
The article says he didn’t even have a motorcycles license. Bet he got the bike last week. I read somewhere that in the first month of bike ownership you’re 70% (or something like that) more likely to have an accident than an experienced rider. I believe it, I’ve been there, however not going 200+.
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#234596 - 22/09/2004 19:21
Re: Motorcyclist ticketed for going 140mph OVER the speed limit
[Re: trs24]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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I didn't think bikes were geared for that much top end. But even the most exotic cars can only hit those speeds on huge straights.
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Brad B.
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#234597 - 22/09/2004 19:25
Re: Motorcyclist ticketed for going 140mph OVER the speed limit
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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The words "Darwin at work" spring to mind.
Edit: Oh, yeah. That reminds me. My DVD with "The Running Man" arrived the other day... I have to watch that...
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Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#234598 - 22/09/2004 19:41
Re: Motorcyclist ticketed for going 140mph OVER the speed limit
[Re: trs24]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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Quote:
When one of the riders shot forward, Loney was ready with his stopwatch. He clicked it once when the motorcycle reached a white marker on the road and again a quarter-mile later. The watch read 4.39 seconds, which Loney calculated to be 205 mph.
Who knows how accurate the speed reported was if they got it using this method. Don't they have to use radar guns or is timing it good enough to convict on.
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Matt
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#234599 - 22/09/2004 20:21
Re: Motorcyclist ticketed for going 140mph OVER the speed limit
[Re: msaeger]
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old hand
Registered: 20/03/2002
Posts: 729
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Quote:
Who knows how accurate the speed reported was if they got it using this method. Don't they have to use radar guns or is timing it good enough to convict on.
I don't know of any other systems used by aircraft to detect speed other than timing using landmarks. Almost all of the rural highways around here have "speed monitored by aircraft" signs and big white X's in the roads as reference points for timing. I have yet to be caught speeding by an aircraft, though. I can't imagine how expensive it is to survey roads that way rather than by using the traditional state trooper with a radar gun.
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#234600 - 22/09/2004 20:29
Re: Motorcyclist ticketed for going 140mph OVER the speed limit
[Re: msaeger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31578
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Who knows how accurate the speed reported was if they got it using this method
Significantly more accurate than radar or just about any other method. That kind of a clocking always holds up in court, it's ironclad.
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#234601 - 22/09/2004 21:40
Re: Motorcyclist ticketed for going 140mph OVER the speed limit
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
Significantly more accurate than radar or just about any other method. That kind of a clocking always holds up in court, it's ironclad.
I wanna testify! Oh, Lord, I wanna testify!
Yup. No average stopwatch, either (at least in WA). I got to hear the cops tell the judge about the calibration of their little airborne timing box. When my turn came, I didn't beef mine, just begged for a reduction.
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Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#234602 - 22/09/2004 21:41
Re: Motorcyclist ticketed for going 140mph OVER the speed limit
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
But even the most exotic cars can only hit those speeds on huge straights.
Aren't huge straights what Minnesota is all about?
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#234604 - 22/09/2004 22:42
Re: Motorcyclist ticketed for going 140mph OVER the speed limit
[Re: tfabris]
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member
Registered: 24/02/2003
Posts: 111
Loc: Elk Grove, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
Who knows how accurate the speed reported was if they got it using this method
Significantly more accurate than radar or just about any other method. That kind of a clocking always holds up in court, it's ironclad.
A cow-orker of mine was ticketed a while back under these circumstances (plane clocking speed using landmarks, not 205 on a bike  ), and planned on fighting it in court. He showed me these sections from the CA Vehicle Code, which define what we're discussing as an illegal speed trap:
VC40802
VC40803
VC40804
I don't know if or how his case was resolved. I imagine most judges wouldn't take too kindly to people waving the vehicle code at them though.
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#234605 - 22/09/2004 22:58
Re: Motorcyclist ticketed for going 140mph OVER the speed limit
[Re: jimhogan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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I can't believe that they found a road that was uncongested enough to get up to that speed.
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Matt
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#234606 - 23/09/2004 02:11
Re: Motorcyclist ticketed for going 140mph OVER the speed limit
[Re: msaeger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5543
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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I can't believe that they found a road that was uncongested enough to get up to that speed.
It wouldn't take that much room.
We're talking very high performance equipment here, with weight to power ratios aproaching 3:1 or better (that is, perhaps 180 HP and less than 600 lbs). The acceleration you can get under those circumstances, combined with the (relatively) minuscule frontal area is staggering. 60 MPH in under 3 seconds seconds, 100 MPH in under 5, and the rate of acceleration doesn't drop off with speed nearly as quickly as would an automobile's, because the aerodynamic drag as a function of horsepower is so much more favorable.
A little math, here...
Assume that the bike will average about 1/3 G acceleration -- say on average 11 ft/sec^2. It will do much better than that on initial launch (possibly exceeding one G), quite a bit less than that as top speed is approached.
V^2 = 2AD, so D = V^2/2A.
V = 205 MPH, near enough to 300 ft/sec as not to matter. (300.667 for the perfectionists among us.
So, D = (300x300)/(2x11), or 4090 feet -- about 3/4 of a mile.
That isn't all that much road...
tanstaafl.
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#234607 - 23/09/2004 02:19
Re: Motorcyclist ticketed for going 140mph OVER the speed limit
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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old hand
Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
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For a good example of how fast a real bike can accelerate, try this.
A friend of mine has the non-turbo version, and once tested it on the autobahn while on a german visit. He hit over 210 MPH, but had to slow down to a mere 150 or so when he noticed the front tyre smoking...
They are absolutely insanely fast. Over 150HP from less than 1000cc, probably 200+ for a turbo-ed one. Very light, totally ridiculous acceleration. You wouldn't get me on one for any money.
pca
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#234608 - 23/09/2004 04:19
Re: Motorcyclist ticketed for going 140mph OVER the speed limit
[Re: Glen_L]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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I believe the way they argue around it being a speed trap, is that the aircraft paces the car, and the pilot uses the stopwatch to determine the gound speed of the aircraft.
This sort of skirts one of the essential elements of a speed trap, where the offenders vehicle is the one being timed.
In an aircraft, the claim is, that the pilot is able to line up his eye with the wheel of the plane and the auto. While maintaining this view, he paces the offender and measures the time it takes for the wheel of the plane to cross from one, to another, mark on the road. The mechanics of all this just doesn't seem to make for accuracy when measuring the true ground speed of the aircraft.
Any way, the courts have accepted this fiction as precedent, so there's not much use fighting it. Although, If you could find some other record of the aircraft's true ground speed that differed with the pilots testamony, something like a radar trace. Well....
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Glenn
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#234609 - 23/09/2004 11:06
Re: Motorcyclist ticketed for going 140mph OVER the speed limit
[Re: gbeer]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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The timing error will come from two places: perspective error and human reaction time. Perspective error (where the top edge of the car appears to cross the line before the wheel fo the car actually does) is the ratio of the distance from the top edge of the car to the ground divided by the distance from the ground to the car. This makes the perspective error very small (perhaps 8'/800'). The way to minimize human timing error is to make the ratio of distance between markings large in comparison to the car's length, which is usually the case (1/4 to 1/2 mile is about what I see around here for markings). All in all the error from both factors is small and timings accurate.
-Zeke
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#234610 - 23/09/2004 11:23
Re: Motorcyclist ticketed for going 140mph OVER the speed limit
[Re: pca]
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old hand
Registered: 17/01/2003
Posts: 998
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Yea that's the kind of bike my brother has. It is just a rocket!
Its amazing you can go 200 MPH for under $10K
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#234611 - 23/09/2004 14:22
Re: Motorcyclist ticketed for going 140mph OVER the speed limit
[Re: Glen_L]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31578
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
He showed me these sections from the CA Vehicle Code, which define what we're discussing as an illegal speed trap:
Right, if you read that closely, the definition of a speedtrap is when the road has NOT had a survey done in the past 5 years.
You take that to court, the first document the cops produce will be the survey.
My friend Tod once got a ticket from the rent-a-cops inside a gated community. He was going to try to get them on that technicality. While waiting in the hall for the judge, he could see the survey document in the cop's hand.
They know their stuff.
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#234612 - 23/09/2004 21:45
Re: Motorcyclist ticketed for going 140mph OVER the speed limit
[Re: tfabris]
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member
Registered: 24/02/2003
Posts: 111
Loc: Elk Grove, CA
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What about 40802 (a) section (1) right at the top? It says a speed trap is defined as either of the two, and that section has no contingency on a survey.
They ought to make it easier to figure out the heirarchy of the subsections.
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#234613 - 23/09/2004 21:52
Re: Motorcyclist ticketed for going 140mph OVER the speed limit
[Re: Glen_L]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31578
Loc: Seattle, WA
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If speed traps made tickets illegal, then no ticket would ever stick in court. I mean seriously, the police have a lot invested in various forms of speed trap technology, they would have that if it were illegal for them to use it.
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