#249368 - 19/02/2005 12:08
Re: Power
[Re: tman]
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addict
Registered: 05/05/2000
Posts: 623
Loc: Cambridge
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This page briefly explains the one-of-a-kind UK electrical system. The site it comes from has all sorts of information about mains plugs, sockets and approvals around the world.
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#249369 - 19/02/2005 17:27
Re: Power
[Re: David]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
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Oh, no, we're not going to be forced to have a Europlug if we vote for the constitution!
How come none of these plugs is like the outlet plug in the back of my Pioneer, Kenwood or Yamaha amps and Maplins don't stock whatever it is?
_________________________
Politics and Ideology: Not my bag
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#249370 - 20/02/2005 07:55
Re: Power
[Re: boxer]
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veteran
Registered: 01/10/2001
Posts: 1307
Loc: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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Quote:
Oh, no, we're not going to be forced to have a Europlug if we vote for the constitution!
Ah ja! All of yuuroop under One Plug!
Quote:
How come none of these plugs is like the outlet plug in the back of my Pioneer, Kenwood or Yamaha amps and Maplins don't stock whatever it is?
Because outlet plugs use the even more international IEC standard? 3-pole or 2-pole?]
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#249371 - 20/02/2005 14:17
Re: Power
[Re: julf]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4172
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
Quote:
How come none of these plugs is like the outlet plug in the back of my Pioneer, Kenwood or Yamaha amps and Maplins don't stock whatever it is?
Because outlet plugs use the even more international IEC standard? 3-pole or 2-pole?
Boxer might be a bit old-skool, but I think you can credit him with knowing what an IEC connector looks like! If his Pioneer amp is like mine, the connector is a 2-blade plug superficially (but not sufficiently) like a US one, with a third, horizontal, plastic blade between them (not quite centred, so it can only go in one way round). When my Pioneer CD player broke, I just cannibalised its cable and put a trailing socket on the end -- not quite legit (no earthing) but good enough for a double-insulated Sony CD player.
Peter
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#249372 - 20/02/2005 15:30
Re: Power
[Re: peter]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
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Quote:
the connector is a 2-blade plug superficially (but not sufficiently) like a US one, with a third, horizontal, plastic blade between them (not quite centred, so it can only go in one way round)
That's the b****r, I have one on the end of a 4 way distribution thingy from Radio Shack, 20 years back, but I could really do with getting the plug, or a plug on a lead.
I'll forgive the old skool jibe:(a) because if I was honest, it's true and (b) because you've just proved to the staff at Maplins, Farnells, RS and a couple of smaller retailers that It exists, and I'm not a loony!
_________________________
Politics and Ideology: Not my bag
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#249373 - 20/02/2005 15:30
Re: Power
[Re: peter]
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veteran
Registered: 01/10/2001
Posts: 1307
Loc: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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Quote:
Boxer might be a bit old-skool, but I think you can credit him with knowing what an IEC connector looks like!
Well, I assumed he would, but as the 3-pin IEC or the 2-pin "8" are the most common appliance-end plugs, and were not on the web page, I had to make sure.
Quote:
If his Pioneer amp is like mine, the connector is a 2-blade plug superficially (but not sufficiently) like a US one, with a third, horizontal, plastic blade between them (not quite centred, so it can only go in one way round).
Great! Yet another non-standard! 
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#249374 - 20/02/2005 16:12
Re: Power
[Re: julf]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
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Quote:
Great! Yet another non-standard!
The more non-standard plugs, the harder to get the all conquering Europlug, up and running: I'm all for it!
Bulgin made this plug, but the nearest they have now is much the same with 3 pins.
_________________________
Politics and Ideology: Not my bag
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#249375 - 20/02/2005 20:23
Re: Power
[Re: boxer]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Quote:
the connector is a 2-blade plug superficially (but not sufficiently) like a US one, with a third, horizontal, plastic blade between them
Are you talking about one of these ???
I have these on the rear of my Kenwood Amp, no idea what they are for, but it has bugged me for ages 
Cheers
Cris.
Attachments
249334-KenwoodPower.jpg (195 downloads)
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#249376 - 20/02/2005 21:13
Re: Power
[Re: Cris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
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Yep, that's the little t*****s, they are to switch off whatever ancilliaries you have: Cassette Deck, Tuner, CD Player, Reel to Reel Tape Deck, Turntable etc., up to the designated wattage, when you switch the amp off: Saves wiring and effort. I just want to plug the wireless headphones in on mine, because it's the only item in my set up that isn't controlled by the remote control.
That is apart from the Digi-Tv on the PC: It's difficult to integrate items in to a home theater set up if they have toggle on/off switches, all my other stuff has hidden codes, so that you can programme macros on the remote .
_________________________
Politics and Ideology: Not my bag
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#249377 - 22/02/2005 13:45
Re: Power
[Re: boxer]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
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I'm informed by a hi-fi manufacturer, a client of mine, that they fit them on all models as a world policy, but manufacturers are banned from selling the plugs, They would have to fit a 3pin UK plug, or a Europlug to be legal. Which rathers makes me wonder, looping back to Julf, why they don't fit an IEC socket, which is used universally on PC's and ancilliaries?
And why, for that matter, don't they fit the 3 pin version of the same plug, which, for some reason, is acceptable?
_________________________
Politics and Ideology: Not my bag
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#249378 - 22/02/2005 14:15
Re: Power
[Re: boxer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
I'm informed by a hi-fi manufacturer, a client of mine, that they fit them on all models as a world policy, but manufacturers are banned from selling the plugs
I take it you can only get a plug when it's attached to a piece of equipment?
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#249379 - 22/02/2005 14:22
Re: Power
[Re: boxer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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I'm not an electrician or an electrical engineer, but maybe there's some audio-quality reason that they don't want a separate ground, but instead need a polarized supply. Of course, that doesn't explain why they don't just provide a regular receptacle and do whatever needs to be done to "combine" the ground and neutral within the unit itself. Maybe that wouldn't be legal, either.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#249380 - 22/02/2005 14:32
Re: Power
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Don't see any audio reason not to provide a earth connection on the plug. If you really don't want it then you don't need to connect it.
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#249381 - 22/02/2005 14:35
Re: Power
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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I agree, but, as I said, maybe that's illegal in some way.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#249382 - 22/02/2005 14:38
Re: Power
[Re: boxer]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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Quote:
I once went to a demonstration by MK, where they got an elephant to stand on a plug and socket to demonstrate the strength. It was never made clear which jungles had installed a ring mains.
My dad installed MK sockets all through our garage when fitting it out. They are the surface mount type but have brass sleeve things around the earth pin thats grips it so that you need near super-human strength to remove a plug from the damned thing. One of these days I swear I'm going to rip the cover off a plug.
It's unusual because the rest of the house is mostly MK and the sockets and switched feel very smooth and solid to use.
Gareth
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#249383 - 22/02/2005 15:34
Re: Power
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
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Quote:
maybe there's some audio-quality reason that they don't want a separate ground, but instead need a polarized supply
I'll ask the same client to ask his technical bods. that question, and report back.
By the way, can you get those plugs (Have a look at Cris's post) in the US? Maybe somebody coming to the meet could smuggle me one in their luggage?
_________________________
Politics and Ideology: Not my bag
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#249384 - 22/02/2005 16:22
Re: Power
[Re: boxer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Nope. Never seen 'em before.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#249385 - 22/02/2005 16:29
Re: Power
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
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Strange, isn't it, every manufacturer, or at least every Japanese one, seems to have them on their amps, and yet no-one seems able to use them. i wonder where it originates from, curiously, not Japan, as far as I can tell.
_________________________
Politics and Ideology: Not my bag
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#249386 - 22/02/2005 16:53
Re: Power
[Re: boxer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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I mean I've never seen even the receptacle. In the US, amplifiers tend to have standard US 125V, 15A 2-prong polarized receptacles (NEMA 1-15R).
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#249388 - 22/02/2005 17:50
Re: Power
[Re: tman]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
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Yep, Farnells have the same, with the advantage that they're a stone's throw from my office in Leeds, but at @£4.50 a knock,:which is fine, as long as I'm sure that it'll fit once I've taken the hacksaw to it.
I've emailed Yamaha's HQ this afternoon to pose the question: What's the point of putting this socket on all your gear if your customers are precluded from using it?
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Politics and Ideology: Not my bag
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#249389 - 22/02/2005 18:22
Re: Power
[Re: g_attrill]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
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Pardon me, but the emperor's invisible cloak just re-surfaced, and I thought that MK plugs were the height of opulence!
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Politics and Ideology: Not my bag
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#249390 - 22/02/2005 18:34
Re: Power
[Re: boxer]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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I tell you what ! It was a bloody good job I didn't have a cup of tea in my hand at the exact moment when I saw the price of THAT !!! I would have been monitor shopping in the morning if I had I'm sorry, but how can THE MAINS FLEX improve sound quality ??? Working for one of the UK's biggest telcos (or is that commco ?), and dealing with ADSL related customer complaints most of the time (just ask boxer ), I see people spending silly money on Belkin RJ11 leads trying to improve signal quality. I always chuckle under my breath, as if they knew the state of the network the ADSL had to go through before it reaches their socket, I think they would be more inclined to use a damp bit of string instead A chain is only as strong as the weakest link !!! Cheers Cris.
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#249391 - 22/02/2005 18:39
Re: Power
[Re: Cris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
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Remember though that some people own amplifiers that cost as much as your average car! With the right kind (read expensive) of setup the power cables will go some way to improving the quality (reducing 'noise') but as you say, its only as good as the weakest link. No use using that cable on a £300 hifi.
Edited by Philip O'Hare (22/02/2005 18:40)
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#249392 - 22/02/2005 18:54
Re: Power
[Re: CrackersMcCheese]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4172
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
Remember though that some people own amplifiers that cost as much as your average car! With the right kind (read expensive) of setup the power cables will go some way to improving the quality (reducing 'noise') but as you say, its only as good as the weakest link.
Even the cheapest modern amplifiers contain power supplies that reject mains hum to inaudible levels. Any amplifier whose sound changes if you change its power cable is defective and should be returned to the manufacturer.
Quote:
No use using that cable on a £300 hifi.
Agreed. And an expensive amplifier's power supply should be even better, and see even less benefit.
Peter
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#249393 - 22/02/2005 19:08
Re: Power
[Re: peter]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
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Well either way I'm not buying it!
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#249394 - 22/02/2005 20:14
Re: Power
[Re: CrackersMcCheese]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
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Quote:
Remember though that some people own amplifiers that cost as much as your average car!
Many years ago, I ended up, after the pub, in the house of a guy who had the most stupendous stereo ever, even nearly 40 years ago, it was in the thousands,and he had had triple glazing fitted to ensure that no noise got in.
But all the Lp's he had were purely to demonstrate the stereo: 1812 and I can't think what else, except I picked up Miles's Davis's Kinda Blue " Oh you're interested in modern jazz", I said: He ignored my remark and said: " I bought it, because it's meant to have the best channel separation of any recording" - he had no taste in music, at all!
What did you think, my girlfriend asked: " Seems OK as a guy, I said, but Leonard Bernstein listens to his music on a Philips portable, and if it's good enough for him, who are we to argue?"
We seemed to be obsessed in the '60's & '70's, with hum and how to cut it out, but it struck me some time back, that we're inputting and outputting sound from our PC's through, what we would have considered, crummy little 3.5mm jacks, and I can't remember ever thinking about or hearing obtrusive hum.
Edited by boxer (23/02/2005 04:53)
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#249395 - 22/02/2005 20:53
Re: Power
[Re: boxer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Yes, well, the turning point for personal computers was not so much electronics miniaturization as much as the advent of compact, quality, switching power supplies.
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Bitt Faulk
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#249396 - 23/02/2005 07:51
Re: Power
[Re: boxer]
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veteran
Registered: 01/10/2001
Posts: 1307
Loc: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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Quote:
Pardon me, but the emperor's invisible cloak just re-surfaced, and I thought that MK plugs were the height of opulence!
I think that's why there is the "BS" in "Mainstream BS Power Cord"
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#249397 - 23/02/2005 08:11
Re: Power
[Re: julf]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
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It looks like someone has reviewed it. Quote:
AVreview User Rating
Christopher Harnett
'Really good but the price is ridiculous'
Strengths:
Detailed. As good as any mains cable I've heard and only challenged by the new Nordost.
Weaknesses:
The price.
It's the 'As good as any mains cable I've heard' bit that cracks me up. I bet it sounds great at 50Hz.
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Cheers,
Andy M
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(Note: If you electrocute yourself then it's not my fault! 
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