#268267 - 28/10/2005 16:22
Coworker and the RIAA
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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A coworker of mine just got a letter from the RIAA- she's getting sued for downloading almost 2,000 songs at $75 a piece. Do the math and you see how harsh that is. The thing is, she didn't do it- not even close. Five years ago her (then) 12 year old daughter downloaded a few songs via napster, but when mom found out they took them all off and they no longer have that computer. Since then they've only bought CDs (no legal downloads even). The letter she got mentions a specific day, about six months ago, and says that she'd made these ~2000 songs available via p2p, which simply isn't true. She doesn't even have the software installed to do it and neither she nor her husband are particularly savy with this kind of stuff (not it a bad way- I'm just saying they aren't computer geeks).
I'm sure she'll get out of it since it's pretty clear she didn't do it; however right now she's sweating bullets and worried about losing her house (even though they couldn't take it even if they won). I feel sorry for her- she does not need this stress right now. I'd love it if she'd counter sue, but I don't think she will. It's too bad because this is RIAA at its irresponsible worst.
She did say that she won't be buying anymore CDs from RIAA artists . . .
I believe her.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#268268 - 28/10/2005 16:59
Re: Coworker and the RIAA
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Can you get a copy of the letter? Does the RIAA allege that any specific songs were downloaded? Maybe your friend should contact the EFF. They might be willing to defend her.
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#268269 - 28/10/2005 17:07
Re: Coworker and the RIAA
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
Can you get a copy of the letter?
I've seen it- she had it at lunch today.
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Does the RIAA allege that any specific songs were downloaded?
The letter doesn't name any specifically. In fact, it doesn't even say how many. She calculated the number based on the amount/$75 per song.
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Maybe your friend should contact the EFF. They might be willing to defend her.
She has a lawer and he seems pretty on top of it. He's already assured her that this is crap and there's no way she'll lose. All the assurances in the world don't make it easy to deal with a letter saying you're being sued for over a million dollers (yes, it is over a million dollers- one of the above numbers must be wrong because she just confirmed that the total suit is for over a million dollers).
Edited by JeffS (28/10/2005 17:48)
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#268272 - 28/10/2005 19:07
Re: Coworker and the RIAA
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31578
Loc: Seattle, WA
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You know, I'd look at the letter with suspicion before assuming it really did come from the RIAA. Maybe it's some sort of fake thing.
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#268273 - 28/10/2005 19:24
Re: Coworker and the RIAA
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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You know, I'd look at the letter with suspicion before assuming it really did come from the RIAA. Maybe it's some sort of fake thing.
Fake thing? It could be the RIAA, their monitoring company or the ISP who screwed up somewhere along the time and got the wrong person.
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#268274 - 28/10/2005 19:31
Re: Coworker and the RIAA
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Random thought: Does she have WiFi at home? Could this be a "drive-by downloading?"
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#268275 - 28/10/2005 19:51
Re: Coworker and the RIAA
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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You know, I'd look at the letter with suspicion before assuming it really did come from the RIAA. Maybe it's some sort of fake thing.
Nope, it's legit. She's already talked to their lawyers and so has her lawyer.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#268276 - 28/10/2005 19:54
Re: Coworker and the RIAA
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
Random thought: Does she have WiFi at home? Could this be a "drive-by downloading?"
Yes, she does- and that is one of the thoughts. However, the letter specifically says that she made the songs available to other people in a publicly shared folder, so that doesn't really fit the "drive-by" scenerio. It'd be hard for them to justify considering each track worth $75 if it was only downloaded and not shared.
I think the more likely cause of this is a mis-ID by the ISP or someone up the chain (as was mentioned). Still, if they are going to send you a letter demanding you pay over a million dollers, they'd better make sure they get the names right.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#268277 - 28/10/2005 20:43
Re: Coworker and the RIAA
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3583
Loc: Columbus, OH
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I'd check out the neighbors. Currently I can see 3 wireless networks from my house and have gotten upwards of 6 different networks from my office, several of them completely unsecured. The kid next door is probably a file-swapping king.
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~ John
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#268278 - 29/10/2005 05:21
Re: Coworker and the RIAA
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
Quote:
Random thought: Does she have WiFi at home? Could this be a "drive-by downloading?"
Yes, she does- and that is one of the thoughts. However, the letter specifically says that she made the songs available to other people in a publicly shared folder, so that doesn't really fit the "drive-by" scenerio.
The RIAA has been going after anyone these days under the pretense that sharing is the big part of the "crime". And pretty much every modern P2P client uploads what it has already downloaded to other people, thus sharing the music back out. So it still could be someone sharing her WiFi, even if for a small amount of time, since the first block downloaded was instantly reuploaded to someone else in most cases.
It also could be a neighbor in range. I finally locked down my access points about 6 months back fearing this type of issue, and recently even moved to full WPA2 encryption. If someone wants to download music, they can do it on someone elses broadband account.
Oh, tip for her for the case, make sure she has any ISP logs showing who had what IP when. This may be a case where she has the IP now that 6 months ago someone else had and was using for this activity.
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#268279 - 29/10/2005 10:36
Re: Coworker and the RIAA
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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The RIAA has been going after anyone these days under the pretense that sharing is the big part of the "crime".
Even if there's no intent or knowledge? If a kid steals a car, wardrives and downloads some music illegally, can they sue the owner of the car too? That's just insane.
I hadn't though of the "neighbor" scenerio. That is something that I'll mention to her. I still don't think it's the drive by, because we're talking a couple thousand songs that they insest was in a shared folder on her system at a single point in time (though of course, via wi-fi "her system" could have been someone elses system), and I just don't see someone driving by, taking the time to download thousands of songs. That'd be an awful lot of sitting very conspicously in a car.
UNLESS, they'd already downloaded the majority of those songs, and just did a few more on her system. But at that point they'd be making the whole ball of wax available over her account. In fact, that'd explain things rather nicely . . . unfortunatly. 
In fact, that theory is beginning to sound more likely to me the more I think about it.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#268280 - 29/10/2005 13:31
Re: Coworker and the RIAA
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14485
Loc: Canada
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can they sue .. ?
Welcome to the Land of Freedom. Anyone can sue, for anything. Whether they can "win" is not the issue -- they can outfund/outlast most targets.
Cheers
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#268281 - 29/10/2005 21:43
Re: Coworker and the RIAA
[Re: mlord]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Song on iTunes - $0.99
Song value according to RIAA - $75.00
RIAA being counter sued for incompetence using privacy-violating "laws", which is publicized by Internet news outlets, and ultimately leads to official decrease in RIAA extortion power - priceless
Perhaps she can publicize her wrongful harassment far and wide, drawing much-needed attention to the RIAA beast. A few hundred forum / blog / newsgroup posts, and e-mails aught to have her case noticed by the Internet-at-large. Hopefully, followed on by publicity in the papers, outcry by the citizens, financial threat poised to the entertainment industry, which FINALLY forces the government to restrict the RIAA power. Hey, every revolution has to start somewhere. All empires fall, as will theirs.
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Whether they can "win" is not the issue
...whether their lawyer is crooked enough, can preform a good enough song and danc, has enough connections, and, true, is paid enough; is.
_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#268282 - 31/10/2005 03:02
Re: Coworker and the RIAA
[Re: JeffS]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
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It is entirely possible that it was a drive-by that had several thousand songs in his/her shared folder. You don't have to actually download them at the time, you just have to have them available for download. If someone popped on tour network with 150,000 songs shared and the RIAA happened to scan your ip at the time, you appear to be sharing 150,000 songs. Yeowch.... Sooooo glad I am running completely wired connections.
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#268283 - 31/10/2005 09:34
Re: Coworker and the RIAA
[Re: lectric]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Perhaps the guy driving-by works for the RIAA...
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#268284 - 31/10/2005 22:36
Re: Coworker and the RIAA
[Re: ]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14485
Loc: Canada
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Perhaps the guy driving-by works for the RIAA...
With more postings like that, you may actually redeem yourself in my eyes some day! 
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#268285 - 01/11/2005 19:03
Re: Coworker and the RIAA
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Wel, I am sad to say that I misunderstood the situation slightly and that she *doesn't* have a lawyer. Rather she was talking to prospective lawyers and they were asking for $50,000. So at this point she just wants to find out what the settlement amount is. She says if it's just a couple of thousand then she'll write the check and be done with it. Right now she's so scared that her computer is off permenantly and she has unplugged her telephone. I have offered to go help her secure her wi-fi access point but she (wisely) doesn't want to change anything about her setup until after everything is settled. I wish she was more ready to fight this thing but I understand just wanting it to be over. I guess that's how the RIAA wins.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#268286 - 01/11/2005 19:05
Re: Coworker and the RIAA
[Re: JeffS]
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old hand
Registered: 27/02/2003
Posts: 770
Loc: Washington, DC metro
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That's a truly sad indictment of the system. I second the suggestion to contact (pro bono) legal representation and make noise.
-jk
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#268287 - 01/11/2005 19:28
Re: Coworker and the RIAA
[Re: jmwking]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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I would definitely contact the Electronic Frontier Foundation ( contact info). They are representing people and I bet that they would jump right on with someone who hasn't shared anything.
Edited by wfaulk (01/11/2005 19:31)
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#268288 - 01/11/2005 20:29
Re: Coworker and the RIAA
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
I would definitely contact the Electronic Frontier Foundation (contact info). They are representing people and I bet that they would jump right on with someone who hasn't shared anything.
Thanks- I actually already gave her the information based on an earlier post and I believe she is trying to contact them. I hope she does.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#268289 - 01/11/2005 22:15
Re: Coworker and the RIAA
[Re: JeffS]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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They say that dead men donīt talk. For the right amount of money I can put her in contact with a professional.
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#268290 - 01/11/2005 22:16
Re: Coworker and the RIAA
[Re: mlord]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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With more postings like that, you may actually redeem yourself in my eyes some day!
How about that one? More redeemed or less redeemed?
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#268291 - 02/11/2005 19:46
Re: Coworker and the RIAA
[Re: ]
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old hand
Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
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How about that one? More redeemed or less redeemed?
Hrmmm... How about illegal?
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Dave
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#268292 - 02/11/2005 21:59
Re: Coworker and the RIAA
[Re: webroach]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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How about that one? More redeemed or less redeemed?
Hrmmm... How about illegal?
Maybe if you live in China.
In every civilized country I've been in where freedom of speech is a right, it's not illegal to make a joke. If I'm wrong, call the police and have me arrested. 
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#268293 - 02/11/2005 23:12
Re: Coworker and the RIAA
[Re: webroach]
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enthusiast
Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 314
Loc: New Hampshire, USA
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You have to admit, it was kind of funny. A little outrageous maybe, but funny. He's obviously just trying to get a rise out of people.
_________________________
Doug
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