#279926 - 23/04/2006 01:40
I need to just give up and move.
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pooh-bah
Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
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#279927 - 23/04/2006 02:40
Re: I need to just give up and move.
[Re: lectric]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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30,260 39% C. Ray Nagin, D
30K votes is 39%? Wow.
I'm assuming you didn't want him to lead... if so, at least there will be a runoff election since he didn't pass the 50% mark.
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Brad B.
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#279928 - 23/04/2006 02:48
Re: I need to just give up and move.
[Re: lectric]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
What is wrong with people?
Along with Brad, I think I am guessing at what you mean.
With respect to choices for mayor, and with the many candidates, what/who was the compelling alternative? I ask this in all sincerity. I, personally, have no clue.
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Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#279929 - 23/04/2006 03:29
Re: I need to just give up and move.
[Re: jimhogan]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
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Ron Forman would have been my choice were I to live in N.O proper. Nagin is the one that I cannot believe people are voting for. I mean, stating on the news that New Orleans would be a "Chocolate City" once again; Telling potential voters that he was the best candidate because the other candidates don't "look" like us.
I think he forgot that it was the white community that got him elected into office 4 years ago. He has since proven himself to be quite racist, pitting the black community against the white.
Landrieu I wouldn't vote for only for the reason that he was luitenant governor under Governor Blanco. In my opinion, she's about as useless as tits on a nun. I'm amazed that a group of people that have and are still suffering from the fumbles by both local and state government are willing to vote them back into office.
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#279930 - 23/04/2006 11:05
Re: I need to just give up and move.
[Re: lectric]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Quote:
..Nagin is the one that I cannot believe people are voting for. I mean, stating on the news that New Orleans would be a "Chocolate City" once again; Telling potential voters that he was the best candidate because the other candidates don't "look" like us. ..
I know exactly how you feel then. Detroit just had an election between two black mayoral candidates and it was basically run as, "Hendrix isn't black enough for Detroit because people in the suburbs like him." It was utterly disgusting. Considering all of the scandals, wasting of money, etc that Detroit's mayor had been involved in, it was considered he's lose in a landslide. But then he played the race card, against a fellow black and it worked quite well...
Disgusting.
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Brad B.
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#279931 - 23/04/2006 11:37
Re: I need to just give up and move.
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3583
Loc: Columbus, OH
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Ah...the appeal to ignorance. Quickly becoming the largest voting constituency.
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~ John
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#279932 - 23/04/2006 13:22
Re: I need to just give up and move.
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
Ah...the appeal to ignorance. Quickly becoming the largest voting constituency.
Some proverb comes to mind here, like "A bird in the hand shouldn't throw stones" or "a glass house is better than a bush". I don't know. I haven't found what I have heard lately about NO politics very agreeable, but it is not like NO was a political Eden before Katrina. It is just sad that a city in such pain doesn't have a stronger. more positive alternative in this difficult time.
And, ummmm, "ignorance. Quickly becoming the largest voting constituency."???
"Quickly becoming?" I take it you have been out of the country for a while. If you have a minute, I'll fill you in on the 2000 and 2004 elections. It is hard to imagine, but some people actually voted for this guy from Texas who...
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Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#279933 - 23/04/2006 18:16
Re: I need to just give up and move.
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Quote:
played the race card, against a fellow black
Newark, New Jersey. The incumbent is known as "Mayor for Life" because his corrupt political power is so unmatched, not even a fellow black man can beat him. Again, because they're "not black enough for Newark."
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- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#279934 - 23/04/2006 18:56
Won't there be some change?
[Re: lectric]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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How long can someone live away from N.O. and still be considered resident enough to still vote there?
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Glenn
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#279935 - 23/04/2006 22:51
Re: Won't there be some change?
[Re: gbeer]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
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Until they change their address with the registrar of voters.
The sad thing is, Foreman would have been a GREAT choice. He turned the Audobon Zoo and the Aquarium of the Americas from disgraces to national treasures. He has JUST the right leadership abilities to get things done, and is about as far from corrupt as you can get.
I personally think Heinlein's ideas about voting are making more and more sense. You HAVE to serve in the military to EARN the right to vote. Anyone can serve, but it takes the responsibility away from those who just want to vote themselves a free ride.
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#279936 - 24/04/2006 14:01
Re: Won't there be some change?
[Re: lectric]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Because ex-military types aren't in for a free ride? Apparently you've never lived near a military base.
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Bitt Faulk
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#279937 - 24/04/2006 14:13
Re: Won't there be some change?
[Re: lectric]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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So we'd have nearly 300 million people serving in the military? Who would be working, earning a living while all of this is happening in order to pay for it to happen? I love the military we have but that's because the people there are devoted and WANT to be there. That's why we have such a professional armed forces. Would you really want people who joined just to get full rights of citizenshiip serving during a war? They'd surrender or flee in droves.
Besides, you'd have some SERIOUS rewriting of the Constitution to make it happen. Err... I take that back, I'm sure some Supreme Court could find some text in there that you need the special Supreme Court Decoder Ring to find.
Maybe a better idea would be to require so many hours of community service that could be fullfilled by military service if the person so desired. So the "doves" or people that can't commit to military service could work building homes for the poor or teaching kids to read or something.
Actually, I take that back. That'd still be putting an asterisk next to the right to vote which I can't support. I know some high schools require x number hours of community service to graduate. That sounds about right.
I shouldn't "think out loud" while typing so much...
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Brad B.
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#279938 - 24/04/2006 15:05
Re: Won't there be some change?
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
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I'm not really saying it SHOULD be done, I'm just saying I can understand his thought process in coming up with the notion. It makes voting rights worth something. I am coming to the conclusion that people don't understand what they're voting for and why. In many cases it has become just a massive popularity contest, completely not to do with who can best represent the populace.
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#279939 - 24/04/2006 15:07
Re: Won't there be some change?
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
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Quote:
Apparently you've never lived near a military base.
Oh, I know exactly what you're talking about. Like the people that were shocked that they actually had to go to war. They were there for the free school, and had no idea they could actually be pressed into service.
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#279940 - 24/04/2006 20:36
Re: Won't there be some change?
[Re: lectric]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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I understand your frustration, but I also think that most people who don't think of voting as something meaningful usually stay home on voting day.
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Brad B.
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#279941 - 24/04/2006 22:47
Re: Won't there be some change?
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Quote:
I also think that most people who don't think of voting as something meaningful usually stay home on voting day.
Precisely. Voter turnout in the U.S. sucks. Economists point out that it's not terribly rational to go wait in a long line to cast a vote that, in all likelihood, will not have a meaningful impact on the election.
Personally, I prefer the system in Brazil, among other countries, where voting is mandatory, with assorted non-trivial penalties if you fail to vote. You do that, and you'd have much better turnout. That won't do anything about the idiots who blindly vote for massive idiots, but once you start trying to define who's elgible to vote in any terms other than "citizen" vs. "non-citizen", then you're on a very slippery slope, and you don't want to go where that slope leads. Instead, what you might prefer is a more long-term solution of the sort that's normally associated with the liberal tree-hugging crowd: decent, well-rounded education from intelligent teachers, with adequate resources to do a proper job.
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#279942 - 24/04/2006 23:02
Re: Won't there be some change?
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5543
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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So we'd have nearly 300 million people serving in the military?
No... we'd have far fewer people voting, with the assumption that those people who had the privilege of voting were invested enough in the well being of their country to take the time to make informed decisions.
Of course, with the voting group being a non-representative subset of the population at large, chances are that their "informed decisions" would take a slant that was not necessarily advantageous to the country. [warning: curmudgeon alert!] But, what else is new? It's not as though recent elections have been to the benefit of any but a corrupt few.[/curmudgeon alert]
tanstaafl.
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#279943 - 25/04/2006 00:49
Re: Won't there be some change?
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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I think we're all in agreement on the issue at hand here. Even though I suspect that my views fall in line with the vast majority of those serving in our military, I wouldn't support them being the only ones allowed to vote. Hell, all it'd do is tempt the politicians to pander to military personnel and then some nut job would propose unionizing the Army!
I was going to say something about how politics have gotten so bad that a lot of people stay at home out of disgust rather than out of being haggard, but that's not really the case. Remember in the 90's where the main complaint was that Republicans and Democrats were basically becoming the same thing (this is prior to Ken Star)? Well, voter turn out was lower then than it is now in the Michael Moore/Ann Coulter culture we're in so I guess, as much as I hate to admit it, the current political culture actually gets people pretty mobilized.
If you guys think Presidential election turn outs are sad, have you seen your local turn outs for elections like school board or various propositions?
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Brad B.
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#279945 - 25/04/2006 01:39
Re: Won't there be some change?
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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Quote:
If you guys think Presidential election turn outs are sad, have you seen your local turn outs for elections like school board or various propositions?
The worst are "special elections" like in the town I am in is having tomorrow. It is to vote for giving yourself a property tax increase because the school wants more money.
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Matt
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#279946 - 25/04/2006 19:16
Re: Won't there be some change?
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
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I can tell you that for a fact, answering polls can have a huge impact on the final result. You ought to SEE the thought process that goes into interpreting the polls and what actions it means a candidate should take. Scary stuff.
And again, I am not saying that I think only military types should vote. The fact that it would require some modicum of effort to earn the privelege, perhaps the same people would invest a little time into looking into the issues surrounding a candidate rather than making a snap decision based on nothing but a list of names.
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#279947 - 26/04/2006 02:54
Re: Won't there be some change?
[Re: lectric]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
perhaps the same people would invest a little time into looking into the issues surrounding a candidate rather than making a snap decision based on nothing but a list of names.
If there were nothing but a list of names, I'd probably be a bit happier with the results -- what I hate is that the snap decisions are based on the little "D" or "R" next to the names. 
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#279948 - 26/04/2006 06:26
Re: Won't there be some change?
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
I understand your frustration, but I also think that most people who don't think of voting as something meaningful usually stay home on voting day.
Except for dead people, illegal mexicans, and the busloads of bums brought in for free cigs and booze.
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#279949 - 26/04/2006 15:45
Re: Won't there be some change?
[Re: lectric]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
You HAVE to serve in the military to EARN the right to vote.
I believe, though I could be mistaken, that he later said the notion was that you have to serve to vote, but not necessarily in the military. In other words, other civil jobs would qualify as well- the book just happened to be about the military. The overall point wasn't that the military makes better leaders, but that people should demonstrate that they can serve others and put them first before they are allowed a say in public policy.
I think the point is well made, even if his solution is overly simplistic and flawed. Our system is set up to give everyone a selfish voice and thereby come to some kind of uncomfortable comprise. How much better would it be if we could isolate only those who have demonstrated a willingness to work for the good of all and let them decide the direction of the country? It's interesting to think about at least.
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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