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#291031 - 02/12/2006 17:15 Adding fields to empeg tag database
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
I've resumed dreaming about on-the-fly playlist creation by querying the "attribute tag" database. This quickly leads to questions which could kill the idea:

Would it be possible to expand the empeg ID3 tag database to include additional fields? Might as well leverage the player's ability to read and store the database. Wouldn't need to see them in emplode or jEmplode, unless those programs rebuild the database.

In conjunction, how horribly would the database size expand if additional tag fields were added to EVERY record? For my dream program, maybe 15 more fields would be needed.

Or, instead of adding fields, could an existing field be used to store an encoded value which represents 15 additional fields. ie: Genre contains 15 character where each position in the string represents a tag and each character represents a predefined tag value. Then software could parse it (and desktop software could encode it).

If these things aren't remotely possible, then I'll just continue listening to the "Rock" genre on shuffle. I'd much rather query Genre=ProgressiveRock Vocal=Male Tempo=Fast Tonality=Minor Mood=Serious Timbre=Electric, if it fit my mood.
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FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#291032 - 02/12/2006 18:57 Re: Adding fields to empeg tag database [Re: FireFox31]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14478
Loc: Canada
It's not really the number of database fields that matters here, but rather the additional size of the data in all of those fields.

How large will they be? Multiply by the number of database entries which have data in those fields, and there's your answer.

Eg. 15 fields, averaging 300 bytes of new data, with perhaps 400 tracks tagged with the new fields, equals 300 * 400 bytes or 12K. Not significant.

But if all 15000 tracks had 300 extra bytes, then this might (or not) trigger memory troubles on some players.

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#291033 - 02/12/2006 19:00 Re: Adding fields to empeg tag database [Re: FireFox31]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14478
Loc: Canada
Generating a playlist on the fly, by selecting attributes etc.. will require a front-panel app to allow entry of the selection info, and then search through the database building up the playlist from matching entries. This could then be written out to one of the stored bookmark areas on the disk, and then activated. All on the fly.

Good idea!

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#291034 - 02/12/2006 19:02 Re: Adding fields to empeg tag database [Re: mlord]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Since you'd have to have an external app to read the data, does it really make sense to put it into the player database? If it were an external database as well, the player wouldn't run into the memory issues you refer to. Of course, the external app might.

Is there any advantage to storing that data in the the player database that I'm missing?
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#291035 - 02/12/2006 19:41 Re: Adding fields to empeg tag database [Re: wfaulk]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14478
Loc: Canada
Quote:

Is there any advantage to storing that data in the the player database that I'm missing?

MMm.. in reality, "database" == "tags". So the data would have to be stored in the individual tag files which correspond to the tracks. This way, it remains associated with the tracks across database rebuilds.

Now, it wouldn't actually have to be in the database itself, but without it there, building a playlist on the fly would take the same effort/time as rebuilding the database does.. too slow to be useful.

I think.

??

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#291036 - 02/12/2006 20:01 Re: Adding fields to empeg tag database [Re: mlord]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Well, I meant compiling it into a separate database that would be fast to search through, but which wouldn't increase the permanent in-memory load. Right?
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#291037 - 03/12/2006 08:29 Re: Adding fields to empeg tag database [Re: mlord]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5680
Loc: London, UK
Quote:
So the data would have to be stored in the individual tag files which correspond to the tracks... Now, it wouldn't actually have to be in the database itself.


Yeah, it would. If you put extra fields in the *1 files, they're always included when the /empeg/var/database file is rebuilt. They'll always take up memory.

You'd have to invent your own side-by-side tag files, one for each track, and somehow build them into your own database file at the same time as the standard database rebuild.

And, unless you want to spin the disk up whenever you start a query, that's gonna have to be loaded into memory anyway.
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#291038 - 03/12/2006 14:06 Re: Adding fields to empeg tag database [Re: wfaulk]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
Quote:
does it really make sense to put it into the player database?

I forget why I thought it may be a good idea to use the existing database functionality. Most likely for the same reason to climb Mount Everest, because it's there. Why reinvent a second database, unless like you said, it could be made faster and lighter weight.

I did realize the memory constraints would hurt players with the stock amount of memory. Maybe the attribute query app would be cool enough to drive memory board sales Which... aren't being produced anymore, so nevermind.

But after listening to Musicovery and reading about liveplasma and Pandora, a brute force attribute tagging system seems redundant. Still, the system seems beneficial if attribute tags could be similar to .LRC lyric files: created once, uploaded to a central server, then downloaded and appended to MP3 files by many people. Maybe I'll try it someday.....
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FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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