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#292666 - 24/01/2007 21:13 Composite Video Out Design
MarkM
stranger

Registered: 11/12/2000
Posts: 105
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
There has been much discussion about this project over the years. I thought that it might be nice from an empeg historical standpoint to share the design (with permission from my employer of course).

This computer converts the empeg display data to composite video. There is also support for VGA and options for PAL or NTSC. That's all I can say about the project. You will need Seetrax's free version of Ranger2 software to view the design.

Have fun.


Attachments
293555-slaveboardissue1(nopcb).r2 (456 downloads)


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#292667 - 24/01/2007 22:32 Re: Composite Video Out Design [Re: MarkM]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 29761
Loc: Seattle, WA
You guys do realize that he's talking about This, right?

(This is pretty exciting.)
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#292668 - 25/01/2007 05:08 Re: Composite Video Out Design [Re: tfabris]
MarkM
stranger

Registered: 11/12/2000
Posts: 105
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
If I get a chance, I'll post some pictures for the curious. I don't think that I have working empeg handy at the moment to show what this looks like on a display. I will say that it does looks pretty good on a variety of displays from cheap CRTs to LCDs and plasmas.

Some of you may be wondering if this board supports video file playback - it does not. It simply mirrors the front display. Pretty nice for hacking into an existing system, or displaying video on head rest or visor displays.

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#292669 - 25/01/2007 07:13 Re: Composite Video Out Design [Re: MarkM]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 29761
Loc: Seattle, WA
I do recall that someone posted the pictures of it being demoed at one of the euro meets. Anyone got a link?
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Tony Fabris

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#292670 - 28/02/2007 03:46 Re: Composite Video Out Design [Re: tfabris]
MarkM
stranger

Registered: 11/12/2000
Posts: 105
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
I have looked all over for a picture of the video out board in action. I remember seeing one posted from a meet. Oh well - lost in empeg history...

I'll take a picture next time I'm in front of one.

It's interesting to see the excitement around the display extender instead of this design. I guess that the display extender is more within people's reach $$$$. Although, I seem to remember this board being pretty inexpensive to manufacture in a quantity of 100 units. Don't quote me, but I think it was around $150 per board. Acquiring the parts was the biggest challenge and I don't think that the company we used to manufacture the boards would do it again - I think they lost money on the deal.

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#292671 - 28/02/2007 04:15 Re: Composite Video Out Design [Re: MarkM]
MarkM
stranger

Registered: 11/12/2000
Posts: 105
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
I found the original installation documentation supplied by Patrick. Some good pictures and there is even a little video clip. Have fun...

http://www.internetespresso.com/empeg/empeg%20video%20out.zip

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#292672 - 28/02/2007 07:37 Re: Composite Video Out Design [Re: MarkM]
Archeon
pooh-bah

Registered: 20/05/2001
Posts: 2376
Loc: Bruges, Belgium
Quote:
It's interesting to see the excitement around the display extender instead of this design. I guess that the display extender is more within people's reach $$$$.

Indeed. But I must say that video out option sounds me attractive for me. A lot of built-in GPS units (like the ones BMW uses I believe) have the option op vid-in. This would be very cool for a completely stealth install. The last remaining thing to think about then would be how to get the commands to the player, but I guess this could be solved easily enough with a steering wheel stalk or an IR extender.
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Riocar 80gig S/N : 010101580 red
Riocar 80gig (010102106) - backup

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#292673 - 28/02/2007 09:54 Re: Composite Video Out Design [Re: MarkM]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1609
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Quote:
It's interesting to see the excitement around the display extender instead of this design. I guess that the display extender is more within people's reach $$$$.


This design requires a lot of code and obsolete parts plus as you said, they need to be manufactured. I can certainly have that done, but unless we did 100 of them, the assembly costs would be astronomical and probably not too cheap as it is. Do you by chance have the code that goes on the boards?

Just thinking,
Stu
_________________________
If you want it to break, buy Sony!

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#292674 - 28/02/2007 15:16 Re: Composite Video Out Design [Re: maczrool]
MarkM
stranger

Registered: 11/12/2000
Posts: 105
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
Patrick would. The code within the empeg is build into the 2.0 release thanks to Toby, Hugo, and Patrick. I also have a video out kernel patch that is used via emplode upgrade.

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#292675 - 28/02/2007 15:54 Re: Composite Video Out Design [Re: MarkM]
siberia37
old hand

Registered: 09/01/2002
Posts: 702
Loc: Tacoma,WA
Apparently you can output B&W Composite Video with a Atmel AVR chip. With this in mind wouldn't it make the composite video out a little easier? That is use something like EmpegVNC to output the Empeg's video to the AVR's serial port through an Ethernet board or something than have the AVR translate the VNC messages into composite video. It would be even easier if you could directly hook into the Empeg's LCD framebuffer and use it..

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#292676 - 02/03/2007 13:30 Re: Composite Video Out Design [Re: MarkM]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1609
Loc: Louisiana, USA
I've compiled a parts list from the file MarkM uploaded. If anyone wants to do the leg work on the parts sources and fill in the blanks we might be able to build some, keeping in mind they will likely be in the thousands of dollars .

Stu


Attachments
295181-EmpegVideoOutPartsList.xls (882 downloads)

_________________________
If you want it to break, buy Sony!

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#292677 - 04/03/2007 16:38 Re: Composite Video Out Design [Re: MarkM]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 20/09/2002
Posts: 2491
Loc: East Coast, USA
I have always wondered: what percentage of that "as expensive as a reasonable sports car" was the design of the device, and how much was for parts and assembly?
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FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#292678 - 04/03/2007 19:02 Re: Composite Video Out Design [Re: FireFox31]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1609
Loc: Louisiana, USA
I can tell you that building one today would not cost anywhere near a small sports car (well not a new one anyway). My guess is most of it was in the development.

Stu
_________________________
If you want it to break, buy Sony!

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#292679 - 05/03/2007 07:01 Re: Composite Video Out Design [Re: FireFox31]
MarkM
stranger

Registered: 11/12/2000
Posts: 105
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
The design was the expensive part. This is a complicated design and could only be done with inside knowledge from the empeg crew. This computer attaches to the EIDE header with pass through control for the drives, yet it gets data for the display via the EIDE header as well. This required a fair amount of software effort from Patrick and Toby.

I think that Patrick worked on this full time for several weeks which turned into months. Patrick built a couple under a microscope and each one took 30-40 hours of tedious assembly time. Just take Patrick's rate times 40 hours and you get an idea on how much the first prototypes cost just to build. There was probably an extra 8 hours a week of me calling Patrick to ask "Is it done yet?" My memory is a little fuzzy from 5-6 years ago and I don't have the original invoice handy, so I can't remember the exact price to manufacture, but I remember it seeming like a very good deal.

One of my requirements was to allow the empeg to be removed from the sled without having to mess with a video cable. We hacked the left rear audio jack on the rear sled connector inside the player for video out.

Overall it was pretty cool and saved a ton of money on various installations - especially as later cars provided inputs for navigation systems.

Mark


Edited by MarkM (05/03/2007 17:26)

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#292680 - 05/03/2007 13:35 Re: Composite Video Out Design [Re: MarkM]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13001
Loc: Canada
Holy crap. The things we never knew!

Going on right under our nos... err.. satnavs!

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#292681 - 05/03/2007 17:24 Re: Composite Video Out Design [Re: mlord]
MarkM
stranger

Registered: 11/12/2000
Posts: 105
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
There was a strict NDA in place for this project.

I looked up the PR, they were just shy of $300 each for 50 units.

If I were a hobbyist today, I'd avoid this design unless you have a lot of spare time and money.

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