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#310061 - 11/05/2008 17:30 Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies
Architect Smurf
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Registered: 11/05/2008
Posts: 8
Loc: Iowa
I bought an unused Rio Receiver from EBay, but haven't been able to integrate it into my network via a Linksys WRT54G wireless router. I am only moderately techno-saavy and can't seem to get this thing figured out. I've read through several threads, but still have not been able to get it working. Is there someone with patience willing to help me figure this out?

I have a year old Dell XPS running Windows XP w/ Service Pack 2, as mentioned I'm trying to run it though a Linksys WRT54G.

Thanks in advance for any help someone could offer me,

A.S.
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#310065 - 11/05/2008 20:43 Re: Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies [Re: Architect Smurf]
tfabris
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Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 30639
Loc: Seattle, WA
It might just be that it needs an older hub daisy chained inline. There is an entry in the empeg car Faq about troubleshooting Ethernet connections, and most of what it says applies to the receiver too. Check that out, try some of its tips, and report back.
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Tony Fabris

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#310077 - 12/05/2008 12:09 Re: Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies [Re: tfabris]
Architect Smurf
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Registered: 11/05/2008
Posts: 8
Loc: Iowa
I read that thread. I'll try it and let you know. Thanks,

A.S.
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#310098 - 12/05/2008 21:10 Re: Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies [Re: Architect Smurf]
Architect Smurf
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Registered: 11/05/2008
Posts: 8
Loc: Iowa
Just tried it with a daisy-chained ethernet hub between the Rio and the router and it didn't work. Any other suggestions as to how to fix it?

A.S.
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#310100 - 12/05/2008 21:42 Re: Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies [Re: Architect Smurf]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5677
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
Have you tried simply turning the Rio Receiver off and back on again ?

It normally takes 2 or 3 attempts to get my Receivers to talk to whatever hub/switch they are plugged into. If when you first turn them on you don't get a link light showing a working Ethernet connection then you need to turn it off and back on again.

They almost never get a link on the first attempt for me.

Apologies if you have already tried this.
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#310104 - 12/05/2008 23:44 Re: Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies [Re: Architect Smurf]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 30639
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: Architect Smurf
Just tried it with a daisy-chained ethernet hub between the Rio and the router and it didn't work. Any other suggestions as to how to fix it?

A.S.


Let's get more details as to:
- Exactly what's going wrong.
- Your network topology and IP addressing scheme.
- Versions of software and operating systems.
- Make and model of the inline hub you tried.
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Tony Fabris

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#310107 - 13/05/2008 01:31 Re: Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies [Re: tfabris]
Architect Smurf
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Registered: 11/05/2008
Posts: 8
Loc: Iowa
Ok, my PC won't recognize the receiver and the receiver continually displays the 'Searching for music server' message. My Dell PC is running XP SP2 and I have Audio Receiver Manager v1.04 installed. I'm using a linksys WRT54G wireless router with DHCP addressing. I've tried several things from the empeg car threads with no success. And, the hub I used is an old 3com hub I borrowed from my office. As far as configuring my router, I've tried enabling the DMZ and Port forwarding 2049 TCP, etc. I've also disabled both the router's firewall and the XP firewall with no luck. I've also tried linking up through a wireless gaming adapter, but I knew that wouldn't work if it wasn't working when it's hardwired to the router. And, I also attempted to shut off and restart the receiver itself many times. Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I'm about to give up. Thanks,

A.S.
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#310109 - 13/05/2008 04:28 Re: Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies [Re: andy]
Roger
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Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5528
Loc: London, UK
Originally Posted By: andy
Have you tried simply turning the Rio Receiver off and back on again ?


The capacitors in the power supply for the Rio Receiver are big enough that it has a couple of seconds of juice left even after you've unplugged the power cable. Hugo used to demonstrate this by unplugging them while they were playing music. Even without LAN and power connected, the Receivers will continue to play music for a second or two.

The hardware/firmware does recognise repeated presses of the standby button as "hard off", so you can mash the standby button until it turns off.
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-- roger

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#310110 - 13/05/2008 04:37 Re: Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies [Re: tfabris]
Roger
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Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5528
Loc: London, UK
Originally Posted By: tfabris
Let's get more details as to:


Let's start with the basics: when you connect the ethernet, do you see a link light on the Receiver? Do you see one on the switch or hub?

There are two main problems with Receiver ethernet connectivity. The first is that the ethernet chipset isn't particularly forgiving, which is what all of the suggestions about trying a different switch or hub are about. If you're getting a link light, then this is not your problem, so let's rule that out first.

For what it's worth, we used Netgear FS108 and DS108 switches while developing the Receiver, and they're solid. If you can get hold of one of those, this is a good way to rule out ethernet link issues.

The second problem is usually caused by firewalls. When we originally wrote the software (are you using the original, stock software, or one of the third-party projects?), firewalls weren't nearly as common -- we were developing against Windows 98 and (ick) ME as a baseline, to put this into context. It sounds like you've tried it with your firewall turned off, so let's concentrate on the link issue first...

Once we've got that sorted, we can tell you how to open the relevant holes in your firewall.

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-- roger

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#310111 - 13/05/2008 06:32 Re: Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies [Re: Roger]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5677
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
Originally Posted By: Roger

For what it's worth, we used Netgear FS108 and DS108 switches while developing the Receiver, and they're solid. If you can get hold of one of those, this is a good way to rule out ethernet link issues.

If only that were true. My FS108 has just as many link issues as any other switch I have plugged a Receiver into. I guess they must have changed the internals at some point.

Still at least I can get a connection with my FS108 after a couple of attempts. I have come across a couple of devices that simply will not work with the Receiver, both of them Ethernet-Wifi bridges with 10mb Ethernet ports.
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#310117 - 13/05/2008 15:53 Re: Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies [Re: Architect Smurf]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 30639
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
the receiver continually displays the 'Searching for music server' message


When it eventually times out and gives a failure screen (a minute or two after power up), what IP address does it say it's got? If it's 169.254.x.x, then the problem is that it's not getting a DHCP address from the internet router.

Quote:
And, the hub I used is an old 3com hub I borrowed from my office.

My Rio Receiver is currently running, daisy chained into into an old 3com hub, too. So that was a good start. Assuming it's a 10-megabit hub instead of an autosensing 10/100, that's the right thing to try. There's a possibility of multiple simultaneous problems, though, so just because it didn't fix it on the first try, keep the old hub around.

Quote:
I've also disabled both the router's firewall and the XP firewall with no luck.


Yeah, the router's firewall wouldn't make a difference (that's only firewalling the internet), but XP's firewall definitely would make a difference. No matter what happens, you have to open up ports on the firewall to get the receiver to work, so make sure to do that.

Any chance you've turned on Internet Connection Sharing on that PC? What about third-party virus protection or firewall software that might be blocking the Rio server software from talking to the networks?

Quote:
And, I also attempted to shut off and restart the receiver itself many times.


As was said elsewhere in this thread, a single press on the power button on the front of the receiver only puts it into sleep mode. To make it truly reboot, you have to either pull its plug, or mash its power button a few times really fast. So definitely try that.

I'd suggest the next two things to try:

- As a diagnostic step, try this: Poke the holes in the XP firewall as linked above. Actually, for this test, just disable the XP firewall altogether. Then take that 3com hub and plug both the PC and the receiver straight into it. Leave the internet router out of the equation for now. Both devices will time out looking for a DHCP server, then fail-over to "169.254.x.x" addresses, and if all the connections are working, they should be able to talk to each other.

- If that diagnostic *works*, then it's time to start looking closely at the logs on that internet router to see what addresses it's giving out, look and see if it's seeing the receiver at all, if it's giving it a DHCP address at all, etc.

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Tony Fabris

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#310118 - 13/05/2008 16:28 Re: Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies [Re: Architect Smurf]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4141
Loc: Cambridge, England
Originally Posted By: Architect Smurf
I bought an unused Rio Receiver from EBay, but haven't been able to integrate it into my network via a Linksys WRT54G wireless router.

I just tried this with a Receiver plugged straight into my WRT54G (v5 -- the version is on the label underneath) and it worked fine straight off the bat. So I suspect we're looking at a PC-end issue here.

Peter

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#310119 - 13/05/2008 16:55 Re: Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies [Re: Architect Smurf]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 30639
Loc: Seattle, WA
Hm. What did you set Audio Receiver Manager up like? I seem to recall there are a couple of settings, including some confusing DHCP-related setting...
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Tony Fabris

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#310137 - 13/05/2008 22:25 Re: Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies [Re: tfabris]
Architect Smurf
new poster

Registered: 11/05/2008
Posts: 8
Loc: Iowa
My WRT54G is v2. Should I update my firmware on the router to see if that will resolve the issue?

A.S.
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#310151 - 14/05/2008 07:34 Re: Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies [Re: Architect Smurf]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4141
Loc: Cambridge, England
Originally Posted By: Architect Smurf
My WRT54G is v2. Should I update my firmware on the router to see if that will resolve the issue?

Probably a waste of time until you've answered Roger's and Tony's questions so that we can help you with the software configuration. (And besides, v2/v5 is the hardware version number, not the firmware version number.)

Peter

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#310196 - 15/05/2008 12:31 Re: Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies [Re: peter]
Architect Smurf
new poster

Registered: 11/05/2008
Posts: 8
Loc: Iowa
Evidently, the 3com hub is too new. Upon closer inspection, it is an autosensing hub. As for the IP address, it shows 192.168.x.x03, which is within the range of the router's DHCP server. I've already tried disabling XP firewall. But without an old hub, I'm afraid I'll never get it working. I really don't want to have to buy one, in the off chance i could get it working. I'm quickly losing my patience. Any advice would be appreciated.
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#310198 - 15/05/2008 12:46 Re: Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies [Re: Architect Smurf]
Roger
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Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5528
Loc: London, UK
Originally Posted By: Architect Smurf
As for the IP address, it shows 192.168.x.x03, which is within the range of the router's DHCP server.


Which probably means that it's not your switch or hub; it's a software configuration problem.
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-- roger

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#310201 - 15/05/2008 12:56 Re: Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies [Re: Architect Smurf]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4141
Loc: Cambridge, England
Originally Posted By: Architect Smurf
As for the IP address, it shows 192.168.x.x03, which is within the range of the router's DHCP server.

Well, that's good, it means that all the networking hardware is working fine. It won't have settled on an IP address unless it can get packets both to and from the DHCP server (the router). You don't need another hub. (Another thing you don't need to do, is obscure internal IP addresses using x's instead of the real values. Those addresses only exist inside your network, and cannot be used to hack into anything in any way.)

So troubleshooting has to move on to the software side of things. You said upthread "As far as configuring my router, I've tried enabling the DMZ and Port forwarding 2049 TCP, etc." -- please go and unconfigure all that. Traffic between your PC and your Receiver needs no special set-up on the router; that stuff is only for traffic which crosses the router, i.e. PC-to-Internet or Internet-to-PC. Then open a command prompt on your PC and type "ping 192.168.x.x03", except using the real IP address of course. You should get lines saying "Reply from 192.168.x.x03"...

Peter

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#310208 - 15/05/2008 15:27 Re: Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies [Re: peter]
Architect Smurf
new poster

Registered: 11/05/2008
Posts: 8
Loc: Iowa
OK, I'll disable port forwarding and DMZ. And, as far as configuring the audio receiver manager software is concerned, there isn't much to configure. Check or uncheck the one box in the IP Config dialog. What other 'receiver manager' setting do I have to adjust? And, if I disable my firewall and still can't get a connection, do I also have to disable my PC-Cillin virus- scan software, could that be where the blockage is stemming from?

A.S.
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#310210 - 15/05/2008 16:28 Re: Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies [Re: Architect Smurf]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 30639
Loc: Seattle, WA

Definitely disable the Windows firewall for all of these initial tests. If you can get it working with the firewall disabled, then later we can get it re-enabled with the appropriate pinholes.

PC-Cillin should not interfere with the Audio Receiver Manager software unless it also contains a firewall-like feature of blocking applications from talking on the network. Either way, though, temporarily disable it to see if that fixes the problem.

Is there anything else that you can think of that maybe you installed on the PC that might interfere? I'm thinking in the areas of:
- Blocking application access to the network
- Blocking incoming network traffic
- Modifying the network traffic, such as altering packet size
- Web server host applications on the PC
- Proxy applications on the PC
- VPN software
- Anything that messes with Winsock or puts a shim into the network drivers, like old versions of AOL did

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Tony Fabris

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#310236 - 16/05/2008 15:51 Re: Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies [Re: tfabris]
Architect Smurf
new poster

Registered: 11/05/2008
Posts: 8
Loc: Iowa
EUREKA!!! It was the PC-Cillin Viruscan software. Now I'll just turn off viruscan and follow the link above to poke holes in XP's firewall whenever I want to use the receiver and I'm good to go. I even got it working through my wireless gaming adapter and everything works and sounds great! Thank you all very much for your help and suggestions. I will think of you all when I am partying to my new outdoor 'Rock' speakers powered by my fully-functional (and now wireless) Rio Digital Audio Receiver. Thanks again,

Architect Smurf (A.K.A. Kurt H.)
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#310275 - 18/05/2008 04:32 Re: Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies [Re: Architect Smurf]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 30639
Loc: Seattle, WA
I'd spend some time investigating what feature of PC-Cillin is the thing that's causing the trouble. Maybe it's some little thing you can turn off permanently.

Or switch brands of virus protection. Jesus that sucks when a virus program makes a piece of software fail.

Anyway, like I said before, I don't see how a simple virus scanner could cause that. You sure it doesn't also have a firewall component?
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Tony Fabris

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#311036 - 06/06/2008 11:06 Re: Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies [Re: Roger]
TechnoDoc
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Registered: 14/01/2004
Posts: 21
Originally Posted By: Roger
Originally Posted By: tfabris
Let's get more details as to:


Let's start with the basics: when you connect the ethernet, do you see a link light on the Receiver? Do you see one on the switch or hub?

There are two main problems with Receiver ethernet connectivity. The first is that the ethernet chipset isn't particularly forgiving, which is what all of the suggestions about trying a different switch or hub are about. If you're getting a link light, then this is not your problem, so let's rule that out first.

For what it's worth, we used Netgear FS108 and DS108 switches while developing the Receiver, and they're solid. If you can get hold of one of those, this is a good way to rule out ethernet link issues.


OK...so it looks like I have ethernet link issues, and would appreciate any help you guys can offer. I tried moving my Rio receiver to a different part of the house. Nothing else has changed (network layout, server software, server location on the network, server IP, firewalls, etc.) and in its original location, connected to a Netgear FS108 switch, the Rio boots up and connects just fine. I get the proper LED illumination for the port on the switch, the Rio gets its IP address, music is served, and all is right with the world.

When I moved the Rio downstairs, and plugged it into a WRT54GC (C=compact version)...no LED on the router, no IP is assigned, no connectivity, no love. I have tried everything, from swapping out cables, to changing ports, to rebooting EVERYTHING (server software, server, routers, switches, the Rio), firewalls on, firewalls off...you name it.

After finding this thread, it seems that I have a more fundamental problem. I have just upgraded the router's firmware and will see if that does anything, but if not...what is the best thing to try at this point? Add a hub/switch in between?

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#311041 - 06/06/2008 11:40 Re: Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies [Re: TechnoDoc]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5677
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
Originally Posted By: TechnoDoc
Add a hub/switch in between?

Yes, go and plug your FS108 in between to test it.
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#311042 - 06/06/2008 12:06 Re: Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies [Re: TechnoDoc]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4141
Loc: Cambridge, England
Originally Posted By: TechnoDoc
so it looks like I have ethernet link issues, and would appreciate any help you guys can offer

Could you draw us little pictures of your network? (Using the "code" tag of the BBS, quote my post to see how.) Are you saying that this worked:
Code:
Server -- FS108 -- WRT54GC --> Internet
           |
          Receiver

and this didn't:
Code:
Server -- FS108 -- WRT54GC --> Internet
                    |
                   Receiver

where all the "--" are Ethernet cables? Where is the server plugged in, and are there other hubs, switches or routers between the server and the Receiver that aren't in my pictures? Is the WRT54GC the DHCP server?

Peter

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#311060 - 06/06/2008 16:39 Re: Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies [Re: peter]
TechnoDoc
new poster

Registered: 14/01/2004
Posts: 21
Well...I fixed the problem for $19.95 + tax.

I went to BestBuy, bought the cheapest ethernet switch they had, put it between the Linksys WRT54GC and the Rio, and everything worked perfectly on the first try.

I guess the Rio hardware is finicky, and doesn't connect to that version of the Linksys router.

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#311069 - 06/06/2008 17:45 Re: Connecting thru Linksys WRT54G for Dummies [Re: TechnoDoc]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 30639
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: TechnoDoc
I guess the Rio hardware is finicky, and doesn't connect to that version of the Linksys router.


Yup. Incompatibility issue (timing?) with the ethernet chips in the players and the autonegotiation on some routers. Hence the mention of the "daisy chain a hub" thing in the FAQ entry on this topic. Glad to know that doing it fixed your problem, too.
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Tony Fabris

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