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#312288 - 19/07/2008 12:09 Sub survey
JonnyGee
journeyman

Registered: 30/01/2002
Posts: 56
Loc: Cambridge, UK

Bored? Why not pass the time filling in this fun car subwoofer survey! Note this is about subs in cabinets as a whole, not just the drivers.

Please feel free to leave any further comments in followups.

Thanks, John
Which aspects are important to you?
Multiple choices allowed


Votes accepted starting: 19/07/2008 11:39
View the results of this poll.
What sort of finish do you prefer
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 19/07/2008 11:41
View the results of this poll.
What wattage range would you expect in a mid-range subwoofer
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 19/07/2008 11:51
View the results of this poll.
Which part/parts of the bass sound are most important to you in a subwoofer?
Multiple choices allowed


Votes accepted starting: 19/07/2008 11:55
View the results of this poll.
What crossover frequency do you use?
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 19/07/2008 12:03
View the results of this poll.
Describe your ride(s)
Multiple choices allowed


Votes accepted starting: 19/07/2008 12:06
View the results of this poll.

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#312297 - 19/07/2008 17:10 Re: Sub survey [Re: JonnyGee]
Ross Wellington
enthusiast

Registered: 21/02/2006
Posts: 325
Hi,

This is actually a good survey.

I have been a clean bass guy since I worked at an Audio Shop repairing audio equipment when I was in high school.

I thought a couple of things could be added though:

1) Under the aspects of what matters most to me... SQL matters alot to me. There are alot of filthy sounding subs out there. I have tried alot of different configurations (single and multiple 10" subs, single and multiple 12" subs, a couple of different 15" subs, etc) and they all sound different. Not many know that Electro-Voice makes or made at one time a 30" driver. When place in a 6 foot cabinet, it was efficient, it sounded decent though not great.

The rest of the speaker system also matters. The low end has also produces harmonics that are required to be reproduced correctly by the mid-bass drivers or the system will sound crappy. An example of this is Hotel California on the Heck Freezes Over CD. The low frequency drum is composed of the low frequency sustained kick type sound, but, also a hollow higher frequency sound too. If the system is not correct, the higher hollow sound will be attenuated, cancelled, muffled, or gone.

The box size and type makes a difference too. Is it ported or non-ported? Does it provide the correct acoustic impedance for the frequencies of interest? The speaker impedance can vary wildy based on the impedance of the enclosure and temperature (based on compliance of the surround and spider). This affects power transfer from the power amplifier to speaker voice coil Magnet motor structure.

By the way, there is also a lot of difference in power amps too:

a) How much front end filtering they have (DC resistance of their differential or common mode choke
b) RDS(on) of their power supply MOSFETS
c) How effectively they have matched parallel MOSFETs in the Power Supply
d) Switching Transformer design DC Resistance, Leakage Inductance
e) Digital (PWM based - how many high voltage parallel MOSFETs,
output inductor and filter cap) vs Linear (traditional - how many high voltage parallel transistors or MOSFETs) vs overall design for use as a low frequency current amplifier not as a wideband amplifier
f) Lots of other more subtle issues

Speaker wire gauge (not fancy cable configuration) makes a difference too for power transfer. Twisting makes a difference though.

Power and Ground wire gauge is a big factor too. How they are connected long term (especially the ground chassis wire - which often corrodes unless either maintained or surface prepped and sealed.

A power bulk decoupling and energy storage capacitor always makes a difference. Besides making it so your headlights won't dim on high demand low frequency notes, it provides a local current storage to "feed" the amplifier what it needs to provide the power for the note.


In short, I have 0 AWG wire from my Red-Top battery, through a fuse, to the distribution block to a Maxwell 58F (yes, 58 Farad) Ultra-Capacitor, 0 AWG cable to a well designed amplifer, 0 AWG to the prepped and sealed chassis ground connection.


You could add type of enclosure: ported (sometimes called Bass Reflex) or non-ported (sometimes called acoustic suspension).

You could add Amplifier type: Digital (PWM) or traditional (Linear)

You could add Enclosure size

You could add type of music listened to


Another useful survey would be one on complete systems installed.


Ross
_________________________
In SI, a little termination and attention to layout goes a long way. In EMC, without SI, you'll spend 80% of the effort on the last 3dB.

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#312312 - 20/07/2008 23:34 Re: Sub survey [Re: Ross Wellington]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 11856
Loc: Sterling, VA
I don't like being relegated to the "truck/van/other" category like I don't matter smile And it's not a van, it's a minivan, but I still think I'm deserving of good bass wink

I love the one a local installer put in. Nice and compact, and they made a custom enclosure to replace the console. It sounds great. Wish I could remember the make/model sub they put in.
_________________________
Matt

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#312355 - 22/07/2008 01:21 Re: Sub survey [Re: Dignan]
Ross Wellington
enthusiast

Registered: 21/02/2006
Posts: 325
I have mine in a full size car and had to select big-A** Estate.

Ross
_________________________
In SI, a little termination and attention to layout goes a long way. In EMC, without SI, you'll spend 80% of the effort on the last 3dB.

Top
#312358 - 22/07/2008 09:15 Re: Sub survey [Re: Ross Wellington]
JonnyGee
journeyman

Registered: 30/01/2002
Posts: 56
Loc: Cambridge, UK
Yes, the car type question needed more options. Sorry about that.

Thanks for all the replies though.

Cheers, John

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#312361 - 22/07/2008 10:51 Re: Sub survey [Re: JonnyGee]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13494
Loc: Canada
Mmm.. interesting that most people don't seem to have answered the surveys below the top one. I wonder why not?

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#312371 - 22/07/2008 13:38 Re: Sub survey [Re: mlord]
JonnyGee
journeyman

Registered: 30/01/2002
Posts: 56
Loc: Cambridge, UK
The top one is select-many. I think most people chose 2 or 3 tick boxes. So is "describe your ride" but inless people have multiple bling-mobiles, they'll tick only one.

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#312372 - 22/07/2008 14:33 Re: Sub survey [Re: JonnyGee]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13494
Loc: Canada
Oh.. so it really does count votes rather than voters. smile

Cheers

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#312376 - 22/07/2008 14:48 Re: Sub survey [Re: mlord]
JonnyGee
journeyman

Registered: 30/01/2002
Posts: 56
Loc: Cambridge, UK
I reakon so, because the numbers in all the select-one questions are pretty consistent, suggesting a reliable figure for the number of people who have taken the survey.

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#312378 - 22/07/2008 15:24 Re: Sub survey [Re: mlord]
canuckInOR
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3119
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: mlord
Mmm.. interesting that most people don't seem to have answered the surveys below the top one. I wonder why not?

Well, I didn't even answer the first one, because I don't really know how to answer any of them. The only question I was confidently able to answer was the crossover frequency question (which I answered "don't know.")

I have a sub, because it came with the sound package on my vehicle. I won't be purchasing a new sub for the vehicle, and I have no idea what my next vehicle will be, so the survey answer I'd select for my current vehicle (compactness) may not be relevant for the next one. That theme sort of follows through other questions, too. My current sub enclosure is plastic, but it's hidden behind the back seat. If I had a sub in a trunk, I'd probably prefer matching carpet.

I suppose I could describe my ride (a truck), but a truck is very different from a van, and drastically changes the options for putting in a sub. As far as cramming a sub and amps somewhere, my ride is probably closer to a sporty 2-seater with no trunk, than a category that includes a van. If the point of the question is to find out what sort of market there are for various types of sub designs, the vehicle classes are poorly divided.

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#312503 - 28/07/2008 17:12 Re: Sub survey [Re: canuckInOR]
frog51
pooh-bah

Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2089
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
I had to put my car down as a truck/other as well, even though it is obviously a japanese performance car :-)

Wish I knew more about subs - I got one for the Impreza due to some of Tony's comments a couple of years back, and it sounds much better, but I just have it piggybacking off one of the rear outputs from a cheapy 600 watt 4 channel amp using a Maplin passive crossover so I would imagine that isn't ideal.

The Forester seems to have a small (10" I think) sub built in, so we'll see how that sounds.
_________________________
Rory
MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock
MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock

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