Well, it's started... Somebody in North Carolina just put two new in box 10GB Rio Cars up on eBay with Buy It Now prices of $450. With that Buy It Now price, one has to assume that the reserve price is somewhat higher than the $199 plus shipping SonicBlue was charging for them before they sold out (especially since the auction information says "this item usually sells for $899!").

Hopefully, he'll fail to sell them (since there are still 20 GB ones left at $299 apiece) and be forced to either relist them with no reserve or return them, allowing people who really want 10 GB units to get them (of course, I don't know SonicBlue's return policy on unopened clearance merchandise :).

Some else [could be the same person actually] was doing something similar a couple of days back on ebay - except he had the cheek to say in his listing that the units won't ship until after the 7th of January as the "items are still on order"

If that doesn't take the biscuit what does?

Damn people need to make an honest buck... throw these guys in jail.

In reply to:

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Some else [could be the same person actually] was doing something similar a couple of days back on ebay - except he had the cheek to say in his listing that the units won't ship until after the 7th of January as the "items are still on order"

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Well, it's always possible that there could be a screw-up on their order and he doesn't actually get both units that he pre-sold. Wouldn't that be fun.

I'm not surprised that someone has decided to try and make a fast buck on the empeg (er RioCar) Closeout by flipping the units on ebay. If I was to make an educated guess, I would say you are going to see a bunch of them for sale on eBay during the first three months of the next year. Some will be from speculators, out to make a buck.. then some (probably fewer) will from users who bought a second (or third) unit, and then decide that they don't need as many units after all.

It is galling though, to sell the units before they even take possession of them.

Finally, it wouldn't surprise me if someone bought up a bunch of tuners from the US store, based on what they read here, for resale on ebay. It wouldn't hurt to keep track of who is seliing how many empeg and tuner units. The harder part would be to get everyone to boycott them when they ask unreasonabe high prices. *sigh* Still, the ultimate goal we should be hoping for is to get as many units and tuners into the hands and cars of the people who want them and will love to have and use them.

Finally, it wouldn't surprise me if someone bought up a bunch of tuners from the US store, based on what they read here, for resale on ebay.

Yeah and so what if they do? For every person who boycotts someone like this, there's another person who will pay their price so they can get the product. It's supply and demand, and when demand goes so high that people will pay more than what the manufacturer sold them for, you get situations like this. The goons who do this on EBay are just trying to make a buck based on the fact that Empegs are worth a hell of a lot more than $199. How is that different from someone who buys 10,000 shares of a penny stock and sells it the next day? You've got an undervalued commodity, if you assume the risk of not being able to sell (not really a risk in this case) you've got the right to make the money on it.

It's not something I would do but I don't see anything wrong with it. Maybe part of that has to do with the fact that I paid $1599 and $799 for my Empegs, respectively, so I have a little bit of a hard time sympathizing with someone who pays $450 on EBay.

Maybe part of that has to do with the fact that I paid $1599...

$1299 here (originally 12GB MkII). That's the price you pay for being an early adopter. It's not without it's benefits though. You are always the one with the best toys, and in this case, you have a true Empeg (not Rio). That alone is worth the price of admission.

Personally, I took advantage of the previous price drop and this final blowout. I wouldn't ever consider selling them on Ebay though. But, I don't see anything wrong with it either. By selling on Ebay, the seller makes a quick buck and the Empeg user base expands. The chump that buys it on Ebay may turn out to be an asset to the community.

That's the price you pay for being an early adopter. It's not without it's benefits though

Yes, of course. I always knew the prices would come down, but I didn't know that when I bought my backup unit, they would come *crashing down* a month or so later. I'm not upset about my timing on the first one, but if I had waited a week or two on the second one, I would be eligible for the price protection. OR, if SonicBlue took American Express, I could get a refund from them. So those two weeks of "early adoption" (of a backup unit, no less) cost me 500 bones. But that's how the cookie crumbles sometimes. I'm just trying to point out that $450 is still a bargain for an Empeg, and it could be a lot worse. Like you, I don't see a problem with people who do this, after all, these are luxury items, conveniences... It's not like a guy who buys all the snow shovels in town before a snowstorm and doubles the price.

Yeah and so what if they do? For every person who boycotts someone like this, there's another person who will pay their price so they can get the product. It's supply and demand, and when demand goes so high that people will pay more than what the manufacturer sold them for, you get situations like this. The goons who do this on EBay are just trying to make a buck based on the fact that Empegs are worth a hell of a lot more than $199. How is that different from someone who buys 10,000 shares of a penny stock and sells it the next day? You've got an undervalued commodity, if you assume the risk of not being able to sell (not really a risk in this case) you've got the right to make the money on it.

Note the operative phrase was "when they ask unreasonably high prices". I'm not against making a profit at all. This happens sometimes in another hobby of mine where questionable hording tactics are used and the markup asked sometimes is 10x the price. And THAT annoys me, because once one person gets a sky-high price on something, 10 others come out an list the same item with a starting price in the clouds. Fine for the two people who were willing to pay, but not so fine for the others who would like one buy can't stomach or afford it.

It's all a matter of degree. The $450 empeg unit is not outrageous (though selling before taking possession is tacky), but what would you think of a tuner module with a starting bid price of $699?

And yes, I paid over $1500 for my first empeg unit, and I'm not gonna bitch about it.

most of us paid a grand on a empeg and most of us would again if we had to to as they are worth it.

[mastercard commercial]

An orginal 12GB MkII Empeg: $1299
Buying 5 10GB Empegs for $1000: Priceless

[/mastercard commercial]

It's all a matter of degree. The $450 empeg unit is not outrageous (though selling before taking possession is tacky), but what would you think of a tuner module with a starting bid price of $699?

I would think that anyone who is willing to pay that much must really want a tuner.

I don't have a problem with that either. I can go to the store, buy the last 10 bunches of bananas left in my town, and sell them on the street corner for $20 per banana. If someone REALLY wants a banana, and wants to pay $20 for it, that's their own dumb fault? Yes, it's keeping your average person from getting bananas, but they had their chances to go to the store and get the bananas when they were plentiful. By not buying the bananas when they were there, they took the risk that, in the future, all the bananas would be gone.

Which is where we're at with the tuners. Those who didn't buy before at the very reasonable price of $99 are now in danger of not getting tuners. The real problem is not someone who might buy the last 10 tuners, rather, it's the fact that so few tuners were originally made. At least some of this falls into the responsibility of Sonic Blue, and possibly someone from Empeg, depending on who decided to not order another batch of tuners, or to make so few in the first batch, or whatever.

But you are right, selling something on EBay without actually having it in your hands is despicable. That part I can't agree with, and it's probably against EBay's terms of service.

Thanks for the kind comments dmz.

These players have been going up for sale on eBay for the past few months for $400-700. Look at it this way, if SonicBlue, to get rid of all stock, sells all of its players for $199, the value of all past players does not drop to this price.... If anyone on this list wanted to sell their personal player they purchased in the past (Mk1 or Mk 2 models) would you expect the value to be less than $199 just because SonicBlue is getting rid of a product line? I do not think so. It seems that the value of the unit to the general public is still $400+.

I look forward to participating on this list in the future as, finally, I am a empeg owner/user.

Thanks, micman2b

BTW My reserve is a lot less than the "Buy it Now" price.

It seems that the value of the unit to the general public is still $400+.

Then you are being disingenuous by saying "this product usually sells for $899!" aren't you?

First off $899 was, to my knowledge, never an official price for any of the Empeg or RioCar models. The original Mk2 prices were, if memory serves me right, $999 through $1999 from 6GB to 36GB. Most recently the 10GB model was $699 before dropping to the $199 price you bought at.

The fact is a Mark 1 Empeg went for less than $400 a week or two ago. MK2's are not TWICE as valuable as MK1's no matter how you slice it. I remember Mark 2's going for about $600-$650 on EBay *before* the EOL announcement.

Like I said I respect one's right to buy whatever they want and ask any price for it. But saying they normally sell for $899 is factually incorrect, and very misleading to a potential buyer. You just proved that by saying their value to the general public is $400+.

By the way, welcome to the BBS. Sorry we're getting off on the wrong note, but facts are facts.

This is weird... I paid $1199 for my empeg in Jan. and just bought a RioCar for $199 w. free shipping and none of the customs hell I went through before... Actually, I saw a few threads on price drops, but never bothered opening them. If someone hadn't started this thread, I would have never known of the new price!

So these things aren't sold out? I got an order confirmation and everything... If I do end up getting it, I will swap the drives with my empeg for the extra RAM...

But you are right, selling something on EBay without actually having it in your hands is despicable. That part I can't agree with, and it's probably against EBay's terms of service.

It is not against their terms of service if you plainly advertise in the auction when the product will ship. Anyone bidding knows what they're in for. As long as they do get it eventually, it's all fine by eBay.

People were selling graphics cards that we hadn't released yet two months before they were to hit the streets. I emailed eBay about it and they told me it wasn't against their policies because the poster plainly outlined the details.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone bought 20 or 30 (or more) empegs in one shot this past weekend. I bought 3, which I guess is more than most people, but only one of them is for me. I simply didn't want to take the chance of having my brother and friends not be able to order one a day or two later, so I put it on my own card.

I've updated my Matrix with the new clearance prices, but I suspect I'll update it again in a week to say all retail channels are sold out and will put in new (higher) resell prices. The used prices will be higher than the current clearance prices for all the reasons already given. Don't know if they'll be back up at what they were last month of course... But safe to assume quite a bit more than $199 for a 10GB model.

Bruno

Yeah but according to this thread, the dude who was selling the Empeg hadn't taken delivery of them yet, and as we know, they could have run out of stock at any minute. I'm surprised EBay allows this kind of thing because with products disappearing and fading out all the time, I could see a lot of situations where someone sells a product on speculation that they will get it, and then the supplies dry out... Then what? Interesting dilemma.

Here's another riocar on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1313850597) . The opening bid of $449.00 can get you a 30gb model at the Rio store for $399.00 (with change leftover)!!
Insane!!!

I think eBay doesn't really care since they get their fees whether the auction falls through or not...

As a final comment on the whether I have these units, As of today, I do have these players on hand. The auctions went up on eBay when my credit card was charged for these items. I pretty much knew I had them then... :)

There is another auction up right now for $479? that states that he does not have these on hand and this auction was started before mine, he must have been speculating.

Boy am I excited to get my MKIIa 60gb. I will need to surf the archives for more information about file naming and Id3 info though....



Micman2b

Just so you know, you can be refunded the eBay listing fee if you have a dead beat bidder. You just have to follow their procedures. I've had to use this a couple of times.

Micman2b,

Congrats on your purchase. Once you use the Riocar it will be impossible to live without it (IMO).

I concur to that statement. My wife has seen/used mine in my car and loves the thing. She is very excited now that I've bought one for her car with the new price drops. Should be here in several days. =)

As a final comment on the whether I have these units, As of today, I do have these players on hand.

Ok, I'll drop the tacky designation for now. :)

Yeah I wasn't talking about you specifically, I was referring to someone else who had said that the units "were still on order." However I still think you saying they normally sell for $899 is false and misleading. But I guess it worked since they're sold. The phrase "buyer beware" must mean something.

Anyway enjoy your Empeg.

Thinking to myself now...

Do I sell my extra empeg to a friend for cost (including taxes etc that I pay)... Or do I just tell them there's a sweet deal available on eBay.... :)

Bruno

sell it to a friend more fun

I would keep the Empeg. There's no such thing as having too many Empegs.

Oh, if you hadn't read my posts in some other threads, it's my "extra" extra empeg. :) I ordered 3 of them on the 22nd. One is definitely going to my little brother though. And one is definitely staying with me.

Bruno

Yeah, I know. I bought a backup for $999 after the EOL annoucement. Between 12/22 and 12/23 I bought 3 more. One will go to a friend leaving me with 4 Empegs total. I also have an excess of parts like tuners, cages, wiring looms, remotes, and lenses.

So sell me a tuner, you hear?

TommyE

I didn't get a tuner. I didn't think my brother would want one and I didn't really need one at the time. If I end up with a car with room for only one HU later down the line, I suppose I'll just go without a radio. It will be a blessing. :)

Bruno