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It is to do with the preception that software, and it associated products (like SFX) are "vapour". "immaterial" and apparently formless - hence, it must cost nothing to produce.

Actually I think a whole generation of software engineers have created this situation for themselves. For the hacker generation it's COOL to work around the clock hacking on software, we've been doing it since we were 15, it is underground, it is creative, it's our art. Of course now we've turned 30 or 40 we're pretty pissed off, but that's the precedent we have set.

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But it doesn't cost the managers, does it? They don't have to stay late and miss their families - in fact, I cannot recall a single manager ever hanging around later than their normal departure time

That's something of a generalisation. If I'm not working round the clock it's because I'm not enjoying the job. While I recognise the need for developers to maintain a sustainable pace I also recognise that the pace is different for different people. I was the b****** manager at Rio for four years but I was usually the last one out the door at night.

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No, it's a problem in the culture of software management (it's rubbish) and planning (there isn't any)

Do you think maybe you're projecting the culture at Philips onto the rest of us? Of course there are unreasonable employers but I'm damn sure that phenomena is not unique to software development. It is common for very highly paid skilled people to be expected to work very hard - you can see this in the city, in law, in medicine, in civil engineering - and you can also find fair environments in all of those places.

Rob