I have 2 sets of Diamond hex Speakers, a Pionerer 9200 Eq Xtant aps and Mac Daddy Subs but when I play Mp3 tracks via my Empeg I seem to be missing some detail that was there in my normal CD deck..

I have just re-ripped my cds with Musicmatch Jutebox 160 VBR 60%d (what ever that means) it didn't seem to matter I still have a bit of mud in the bass and Seem to be missing the top part of the highs... Any Suggtions

I have already fidgeted with the EQ settings

Try a playing a few WAV files ripped from original CDs and see if the problem persists.

Stu

HUmmm maybe one of you mensa people can answer this one..

Anyone know the Specs for the Empeg Mach 2 (Empeg branded Not rio)

IE

SN/noise ratio
Stereo Serpation
THD %
Frenquncy Responce
ETC

That way I can compare apples to apples and rule out the EMpeg as the problem and go back to the way I am ripping MP3's

Question 2

Anyone know what is the best way toi set up Music match looking for the best quality Don't care about file size (but I don't think you can keep Id3 tag info if I make them wav files)

Those specifications are available from the FAQ here:

What are the basic specifications of the player?

Remember that when you play MP3s, they will not sound the same as a CD player, the frequency response will be a little different because it's going through different output circuitry. Most CD players have their bass boosted a little bit, for example, while the empeg has perfectly flat output with no boosting anywhere.

Regarding the stereo separation specification, please see this.

Finally, keep in mind that how good the music sounds is also a function of your encoder program. I do not know how "good" MMJB is at creating the MP3s.

With its default settings MMJB will clip some higher frequencies. There's a checkbox someplace (not at home right now or I'd check & tell you exactly where) that you can use to tell it not to clip the higher frequencies. Poke around and re-encode a song so you can compare the two.

-Zeke

Found this

Audio DAC sample rate fixed 44.1KHz (Not sure what this means)

DAC typical S/N ratio 110dBA (this is the output on the Dac is this the also the output from the RCA connectors)


DAC typical output noise 3uV

DAC typical THD + N 1Khz, 0dB -70dBA

DAC typical dynamic range 1Khz (-60dB) 102dBA

DAC max crosstalk 10Khz -69dB

Aux input frequency response 20Hz to 18KHz

Aux input typical channel seperation 50dB

(I saw the Frequency responce from the aux input but didn't see one on the Empeg it self

Anyone that can fill in the blanks

The real thing you want to do here is isolate the problem and see what you can hear and what might be causing this... The quoted specs are "Good Enough" and it's doubtfull you could tell the difference with any better numbers, from what I remember -- especially considering you're playing lossily encoded mp3s.

The way to do this is to do what was sugested orginally, and check a wav file to see if you hear the same problems with the output. Get a wave file by using Exact Audio Copy and ripping it from a real (non burned) CD. If the wave file corrects the problem, your problems lie in music match jukebox. If it doesn't, your problem lies in the empeg output chain. It's very possible that your equalizer is set to flat, when you want some sort of boost in the curve.

If the wav file sounded good, but your mp3's don't, you need to change encoders or encoder settings. The majority of people now recomend Lame with the -alt-preset-standard VRB setting. Both EAC and LAME are free, so that shouldn't stop you...

Good luck chasing the perfect sounding system, it's a very expensive game :-)

Matthew

I am trying to squease the most out of the Empeg I can..

I purchased top of the line speakers, cable, amps and rca cords it would be a shame not to have the best comming out of the Empeg, so I am looking for a bit of help...


Rca Cables are Zero lose by phoenix Gold
Speaker cables are custom full sheilded Twisted lead
Amps are xtant
Eq is Pioneer 9200 (needed it for the sub out put)
Line driver is Audio Source matrix
Speakers are Diamond Hex
Subs are Diamond TDX
Very little is left to explain the differance (maybe I should throw 2 sixty gig dives in the empeg and go for wave files?

If I rip to wave files can I still use the ID Tags ??
I have over 300 CD's would 2 sisxt gigs be enough?


.

maybe I should throw 2 sixty gig dives in the empeg and go for wave files?

Or you can simply go for the highest-quality MP3s you can get, such as 320kbps cbr made with LAME or Fraunhofer.

But until we get to the bottom of this perceived "just sounds funkie" problem, we won't know if MP3 encoding is the root of it or not.

Can you describe in more precise details what's wrong with the audio? It could be something as simple as needing to EQ the stereo properly.

(samples)
OK, Cd of dark side of the moon at 11 on the volume the bass if muddy, CD 2 Rocky horror same song time warp when little nell hits the high notes you can here a sorta cut off distortion like sound.

(I used to close my eyes and pop the 1977 Version of the 1812 Overture into the Player and it would almost brin tears to your eyes with the reallism now it sounds like a juiced up walkmen)



All Songs seem to lack depth and details (They sound pretty good but no where near what they sound like from the CD)
As for EQ setting I use Auto-eq on the Pioneer just like I have always used (in flat mode)


(

when little nell hits the high notes you can here a sorta cut off distortion like sound.

Can you play those same MP3s on your PC and hear the same cut off distortion when you play them on the PC?

Even though my Pc has an SB live I don't think it would do a good job through those 299 sound works speakers... But I can try

What we're trying to do here is narrow down whether the problem is:

a) In the MP3s you have created.

b) In the player itself

c) In the amplification and speakers

d) In the way the player's audio is configured.

By making sure the files don't sound like that when played on your PC, then you have eliminated (a). Then we can move on to something else. It doesn't have to sound "great" on your PC, it just needs to play without the distortion you described.

In reply to:

---

If I rip to wave files can I still use the ID Tags ??
I have over 300 CD's would 2 sisxt gigs be enough?

---

Well, the real question is if it will solve your problem... You've got to know what you're trying to fix instead of just throwing money at it <grin>

Try a wave file to see how it sounds, not to plan on using them forver...

Matthew

This sounds a lot like the encoder messing things up for you, but you need to play the same song as a WAV to be sure.

but you need to play the same song as a WAV to be sure.

No, because we need to test against the actual files for errors first. If he's getting rip errors, those will show up in different places in the WAV. Besides, a poor encoder wouldn't distort the way he describes. He might hear some subtle compression artifacts, but not genuine distortion like that.

The correct first step is to listen to the MP3s in question on a PC and see if the MP3 files contain the distortion. Comparing to a WAV would be a much later step, after we've ruled out the more likely issues.

Hey, I wonder...

Anyone out there know anything about MMJB?

Here's a question. Does it have a fall-back option where, if it can't digitally rip the disc data, it will instead sample the analog L+R CD audio output? Maybe that's the way he's ripping his CDs and he doesn't know it? That might cause a distorted file.

The bass sounding muddy and the high notes sounding distorted has "poor encoder" written all over it. He might not be able to pick up on it listening to it on the pc. But yes, he needs to rerip the file from the cd to wav and listen to that on the empeg.

Sean

The bass sounding muddy and the high notes sounding distorted has "poor encoder" written all over it.

Depends on your definitions of "muddy" and "distortion".

A low-quality encode would lose some detail and cause audible artifacts, yes. But genuine clipping distortion? No.

If you use the word "distortion" to describe encoder artifacts, I could understand. But to me, distortion means actual clipped waveforms, not a loss of high frequency detail. When someone tells me "distortion", I start looking for gain-related problems, not encoder problems. His description did not sound like poor encoding to me.

Now, a bad rip... I could see that being described as distortion, depending on what the ripping problem was. For instance, the analog-sample thing I described above could easily be distorted. But that's not the same as a low-quality encode.

I listened to a few mp3's on my computer last night the speakers are so cheesey I can't tell the differance these speakers just don't have the dynmac range to allow me to judge them mp3's

But if there really is genuine DISTORTION on the high notes of that one song, like you said, you should still be able to hear it. Doesn't matter how cheesy the speakers are, if the source material really is clipping, you would hear it on any playback device.

Are you really talking about distortion? Or do you mean something else?

Unknown...
The music is muddy and lacks detail (or atleast it does to my ear)

As for the computer speakers if what I think is missing is say low Effects below 60Hz and high effects above say 15khz I wouldn't be able to tell on computers speakers that go from say 70hz-15khz they lack the range... with out an external Realtime plot of output it would be very hard to judge...

Add that to the fact the SB live is no where near the quality in thd, singel to noise or responce it is not a good test...

I think I need to get someone that knows a good deal about ripping and set up program X to rip in the highest quality the Empeg can support then test again.

Missing high effects above 15khz is a common problem with some MP3 encoders. This doesn't sound like distortion, though, it just sounds like less sparkle.

Missing low effects below 60hz shouldn't be because of the player. I know these players are capable of delivering frequencies that low, with a flat frequency response. I've verified this with direct spectrum analysis of the output waveform. And MP3 encoding will not remove those frequencies, so it's not your encoder.

HOWEVER, you must realize (as I said before in this thread) that the empeg player is EQ'd very flat compared to most consumer CD players. Consumer CD players often have their bass artificially boosted out-of-the-box. The empeg doesn't. Perhaps it's just a question of turning up the bass.

Are you sure MMJB is ripping your CDs properly, using DAE? Or is it ripping from the analog audio outputs of the CD player?

I have a Auto EQ that does all the cutting and boasting for me, as for Bass with 2 10' TDX speakers I have more bass then an A-bomb.....

I have used both the Auto Eq curve from my last radio and I have created a New one..with the Eq's built in Pink/white noise generator, I don't think its a setting I think ether the empeg or the encoder is coloring the music or cutting off frequencys not sure which.

I download lame last night so I will give it a shot.

You could always post a clip of an mp3 you think sounds funky and let us attempt to judge if it's the file or not.

Now that I'm at home I can check those settings...

In MMJB go to the menu 'Options' and choose 'Settings'. Click the 'Recorder' tab. For good quality MMJB encoding check 'Custom Quality' and move the slider to 192 Kbs (at least). Click the 'Advanced' button. At the bottom of this dialog box there's a 'Maximum Bandwitdth' Section. Uncheck 'Let Encoder Choose' and move the slider to 20 kHz. Then click 'Ok' then 'Ok'. Try re-ripping a song you find it particularly noticable on and see if that makes any difference (it should if it's an encoder issue).

As Tony said, it could be other things as well, such as your amps over-driving your speakers or some other issue. You just need to eliminate the MMJB encoder.

The above directions are for MMJB Plus, but the standard version should be the same (hopefully).

Hope this helps.

-Zeke

I have to agree with you on that. As a former disciple of MMJB I learned that you have to mess with the custom settings and definitely get the encoder to expand the upper bandwidth to 20Khz. The default is 16Khz, so if you didn't change this it should be very easy have a good majority of your music start to sound muddy. I switched over to EAC and LAME about two months ago and haven't looked back. I am still in the process of reripping and encoding over 300 CD's. The difference in the sound is very noticable from MMJB. It takes a little bit of work to set up but once you do it works great. I also just discovered LAME-B which you run on a command line that does have a little learning curve but lets you encode, tag and place files into a directory structure via artist\album\track that saves a lot of time.

It just seems to me that if you want the best equipment in your car, then don't you want to use the best software to make your music as well? My system consists of Focal separates and subs being run by McIntosh amps and a studio quality crossover. I was really being held back by my software before switching to EAC-LAME. I can definitely hear a difference now. IMHO as your equipment gets better it is easier to here glitches and such from inferior recorded MP3's. Good Luck.

Yeah, I use EAC & LAME as well. Explaining those is beyond my ken, at least if I wanted to sleep. If changing MMJB to 20kHz & 192k doesn't help, then I think he can rule out encoding as the problem. The difference between those and LAME's Alt-preset -standard is not going to be _hugely_ noticable, at least not for the casual listen.

I've found MMJB to be mighty poky with 5300+ tunes (still using Winamp 2.80), but I still find MMJB's 'Supertagging' to be mighty useful though.

-Zeke

I guess I am a mensa Drop out cause I fired up lame and couldn't figure out if it has a cddb datebase or not... I use musicmatch cause it does everything for you (Ok I am lazy)

I am going to give lame a second shot and also try kicking up the setting on MMJB to see if that helps

LAME is not a ripper or a tagger. It's simply an encoder engine. It doesn't have CDDB, it can't. It can't work by itself, it needs to be integrated into a larger process, which is three steps.

Step 1: Rip into WAV format.
Step 2: Encode to MP3 (that's where LAME comes in).
Step 3: Tag.

There are a lot of packages which do all three and can also incorporate LAME in the second step seamlessly. For more details on what each of the three parts is, and what to watch out for at each step, click here.

Not to totally destroy your point, but LAME can tag mp3s as it creates them, if you give it the options. Do a LAME --longhelp to see them; they're at the end. So it could use a CDDB interface, if it has one, conceivably, but it doesn't, and I can't imagine it ever would, either.

So your point's still valid, even if the facts it's based on are not entirely accurate.