I was just wondering what people think of SONICblue's ReplayTV receiver/recorder. I was just checking it out vs. TiVo.

It appears to me that the ReplayTV has almost ALL of the features I could want, while the TiVo is rather lacking. The only thing I might wish for on the ReplayTV is the ability to record 2 shows at once... but I don't consider it a major point.

In particular, if anyone on the board actually owns one or has had some experience with one, I'd like your thoughts on it.

Or, if I'm way off and TiVo is the better unit, despite having less features (the ReplayTV's ethernet features almost made me drool), please let me know.

I own two older RePlay units, and have co-workers that own Tivos.

The Replay's price includes the lifetime subscription service, the Tivo's service costs another 200 dollars.

Both units only have one tuner, and as such can only record one thing at a time. I believe MS has a combo
satellite unit/Tivo that can record two things at once, but only from the satellite service. (I may be slightly off but I do know there's some kind of limitation on the two recording thing that isn't advertised.)

The RePlay natively has the 30 second skip button. This is a killer feature that I really, really love. Four hits of that button and you're back to watching your show, no commercials. The next generation (of both, I think) features a total commercial skip feature that is automatic. (They're being sued over this, of course.)

The Tivo is actually a Linux box. You can thus hack it and tweak it to your heart's content. I've seen people run web servers, add ethernet cards, and do all kinds of funky things with it. The RePlay uses an embedded OS (non-linux, though I forget the name), and as such isn't as easily hackable. (Though you may want to check the AVS forums to see if there is anything new, I haven't done that in a while.)

The interesting thing about the Tivo is that it takes the unused space and will record things that it thinks you may like. These recording decisions are based on what you already have scheduled to record. I know my co-workers have been very pleasantly surprised with some of the recordings. And if it nabs something you don't want, you can just delete it (Tivo only uses your unused/reserved space for this kind of recording.)

Also, the Tivo has season passes, where you can tell it "Grab all the Simpsons", then give different time slots higher or lower priority, and you can tell it to either record copies of the same show or not. (The Simpsons is a good example, as many Fox networks will show it 2+ times a day, and then show the new shows Sunday night. You can set it up to grab only the Sunday night ones if you like.)

The RePlay's not quite as smart, and it doesn't have a priority system per se. It does have four different priorities, but those are based on how you schedule the recordings. You cannot tell it "Record Show A and Show B, and if the two conflict, record Show B." It's final decision logic, if the two are set up exactly the same, is to go with the one that sorts first alphabetically.

Both units allow you to crack them open and change the HD out for a larger one and also add a second one, though I think the Tivo's internals are a little nicer for this (it comes with a second rack, the RePlay only comes with the extra space for one). But, be aware that the RePlay has a memory limit which limits you to 150 gigs of space.

Personally, if I were in the market for a new one (which I will be, soon as I pay off the money I'll spend on Patrick's Tuner *grin*), I would wait until the Moxi comes out early next year. The Moxi is a Linux-based multi-media center. It can record FOUR things at once, and also supports general audio/video/pictures/mp3's/etc. It is truly a multi-media center, and includes a base unit for your main stereo/entertainment center, and then has satellite stations which the base unit can broadcast to. Thus, you can record your shows from the main unit and broadcast them to your other TVs later.

I think the Moxi may even have DVD recording capabilities, but I am not quite sure (it's very late at the moment). I also think Panasonic is coming out with a DVD burning PVR as well, but I know nothing of it's tuner capabilities.
(I think the Moxi might also be a digital cable tuner, which would explain why it's advertised as "coming out via your local digital cable providers Winter of 2003".)

I'd suggest digging a little more about the Moxi. Microsoft seems to be already putting out the word about their competitor to the Moxi, but somehow I think the Moxi/Linux product's just going to be better.

- Rick

It appears that the coolr things you can toss in or turn on in your TiVo are natively in the ReplayTV. Plus, they seem to have paid the patent royalties for the tv "grid" instead of the modified but royalty free format TiVo has.

On the other hand, as you note, the hackability makes the TiVo rather interesting to me, for many of the same reasons the empeg is.

And:
The interesting thing about the Tivo is that it takes the unused space and will record things that it thinks you may like.

I saw a comparsion of TiVo and ReplayTV where they were snarky and pointed out "we don't guess what you like, instead you pick from categories of stuff you like". Where, I presume, they put stuff in the categories, meaning they guess what I think those categories mean. 6. half dozen.

The Moxi might be interesting enough to convince me to get one, but I already have a TiVo with lifetime (the $200 plus the $100 I paid for the thing, combined with having it for almost a year, means the Replay almost certainly couldn't compete on price anyway, since it's too late), and my TiVo won't be hand-me-downed to my parents, since I also already got them one, also with lifetime ($129, theirs is a 30hr, mine is a 20, upgraded to 100-something)

I think it depends what you want. If you want to play at all a series 1 TiVo is the right choice. (Find one used). The Replay has some more interesting features as shipped. The other thing is since you need to decide what you like, try to play with both, find friends that have them.

I'm not sad I went with the TiVo, or that I have a pile of spares to play with. I am sad that I don't have time to "hack" a TiVo and start doing mpeg extraction, or time to do anything with the extracted video. If someone put something free in my lap I might change my mind but I have to go with the TiVo as my recommendation.

I don't expect anything free, or to be willing to spend any money until something like a Moxi hits the market, either, actually.

The only thing I might wish for on the ReplayTV is the ability to record 2 shows at once... but I don't consider it a major point.

Yet... I sometimes find I need three shows simultaneously recording, but luckily some of the shows repeat at later times on channels like Comedy Central.

I've considered the ReplayTV with the ethernet but I'm happy as a pig in slop with my DirecTivo and will be hacking in ethernet one day...

This is an often-discussed topic at the AVS forum. Here is the Replay forum. There are many threads that compare the current features of replay and tivo -you will just have to ignore some flames on which is better.

Some features in the current Replays not previously mentioned in this thread:

-Replays have an Ethernet jack, so you can easily transfer/archive/burn to disc recorded shows.
-Replays have automatic commercial advance. It will automatically skip commercials (*no* remote clicks required).
-Replays can send shows over the Internet. Planetreplay.com aggregates and index of content from hundreds of replay devices. Its simple to email others requesting shows that may not even be broadcast in your area.
-With multiple replaytvs in one house, the content of all the replays are shown in each replays guide. You can play back shows real time that were recorded on other replaytvs.

The only thing I might wish for on the ReplayTV is the ability to record 2 shows at once... but I don't consider it a major point.

Yet... I sometimes find I need three shows simultaneously recording, but luckily some of the shows repeat at later times on channels like Comedy Central.

Angel
Alias
Malcolm in the Middle

Smallville
24
Frasier

Well, I've done some basic research on both the ReplayTV and the TiVo units. It sounds like the basic case is the ReplayTV has more of the features I'd want out of the box, whereas with TiVo I'd have to do some learning in order to roll up my sleeves and add what I want.

From the basic description of the Moxi by Rick, it doesn't really sound like something I'd want to spring for, especially if DVD burning is a major selling point. My general opinion on component burners of any kind, for a home entertainment system, is "no," because a drive version of it will always be faster, cheaper, and more reliable.

One more thing is that recording time on the unit may not be an issue. Right now I constantly record over the same VHS tape set to LP. This gets me about 5¾ hours of recording time. I have to make sure to either watch it or switch out the tape every other day. And some weeks are very busy. So even 20 hours recording time would probably be a real luxury.

The other reason space may not be an issue is because I'm planning to build a PC with which I can archive my favorite shows to either VideoCD or DVD. Obviously this would be a little easier with the ReplayTV out of the box. But from what I'm reading, one could rather easily modify a TiVo unit, much like the empeg, to get whatever feature he/she wanted, short of the 2nd tuner. It is true that a few of the shows I watch get repeated at a later time or a later day, so I don't think I'm going to consider the 2nd tuner an issue.

Also, I don't believe either unit comes with a lifetime subscription built into its price, but rather both seem to have it as an option; at least from what I read on their sites. So, with all this in mind, I am as of yet undecided. But, hackability not being something I may want to attempt (not the most computer savvy; just have a healthy interest), I think I may be leaning toward the ReplayTV.

This is precisely why I like Replaytv - I have a weekly replaytv swap over the internet of law and order / alias because of a conflict.

BTW - the same episode of Smallville is on Tuesdays and Sundays (at least in my market).

The 5000 is a great product - I would have one (instead of Tivo) if we had UK coverage! Of course I would say that

Rob

From the basic description of the Moxi by Rick, it doesn't really sound like something I'd want to spring for, especially if DVD burning is a major selling point. My general opinion on component burners of any kind, for a home entertainment system, is "no," because a drive version of it will always be faster, cheaper, and more reliable.

Only if you're willing to run Windows. I'm not, and so no video DVD mastering for me.

Only if you're willing to run Windows.

Well isn't that a given? I have my gripes with Microsoft just like anyone else may. Namely, I'm rather pissed about a title for the XBox currently in development that was in the works for GameCube, until MS came in, bought the company, killed their exclusivity license with Nintendo, and said "you're going to make that game for us now". >:(

But as far as my PC goes... Win2K gives me no problems, and I can do what I want to do. So I live with it.

Well isn't that a given?

Obviously not. I don't.

I wasn't saying it was a given that people run Windows. I was referring to your exact statement. People can do [insert task] "only if they run Windows." Or if you can do it in another OS, the software isn't as good.

In reply to:

---

Or, if I'm way off and TiVo is the better unit, despite having less features (the ReplayTV's ethernet features almost made me drool), please let me know.

---

You're way off.

Replay has some showy features that are of value, but the heart of a DVR is it's scheduling engine and TiVo's is much better.

I've owned both and I could explain the differences but someone else already has. Replay's scheduling paradigm is frustrating and requires constant maintenance if you record a lot of programs with potential overlaps. And if you have DirecTV then it's a no brainer. The dual tuners in the DirecTiVo are far and away more important than any other feature.

-Dylan

Actually, there are many things I can do in another OS much better than Windows, but this shouldn't devolve into a religious debate, so I'll go away now

Replay's scheduling paradigm is frustrating and requires constant maintenance if you record a lot of programs with potential overlaps.
If I'm not mistaken, the 5000 series of the ReplayTV now includes a conflict resolver to warn you of overlapping programs scheduled for recording, as well as the ability to record a few minutes prior to the start and after the end of the program. I find that very useful, because not everyone's clocks match up.

And if you have DirecTV then it's a no brainer.
I haven't even looked at DirecTV yet. I'm just looking for opinions on the DVR units themselves. And as I and others have mentioned earlier, many popular shows have repeat days or times, so a 2nd tuner isn't really important.

I still think I'm leaning towards the ReplayTV at the moment.

... religious debate...
I have no religion.

I have no religion.

Well, I have a TiVo Guy doll and a Colonel Sanders bobble head doll on top of my TV. So, I guess they are my religious figures. TiVo is the way to go.... and get some Crispy Strips while you're at it!

If only empeg had a mascot.....

In reply to:

---

And as I and others have mentioned earlier, many popular shows have repeat days or times, so a 2nd tuner isn't really important.

---

Trust me. A second tuner is important. I can assure you that you will find yourself wanting it. Listen to the people that own DVR's.

You sound like you've made up your mind so good luck. I do encourage you to read the entire comparison that I linked. That comes from a user who knows from experience what is important in a DVR. (At least read sections 12-15. That's the core functionality and the type of thing you can't glean from feature lists.)

-Dylan

Namely, I'm rather pissed about a title for the XBox currently in development that was in the works for GameCube, until MS came in, bought the company, killed their exclusivity license with Nintendo, and said "you're going to make that game for us now". >:(

Let me guess, Kameo: Elements of Power by Rareware? Don'y worry, it looks like it's veered off course from the early previews I saw of it, much like Halo did from what I saw at E3 2000. I'm sure they will release it as a only a shimmer of what it was capable of becoming.

(Yes, I'm bitter about this one too )

I sometimes find I need three shows simultaneously recording

Good god, I haven't used my VRC to tape a show in years. I don't even have cable. I do watch some TV but I really don't care if I miss a show or not.

Quote:
From the basic description of the Moxi by Rick, it doesn't really sound like something I'd want to spring for, especially if DVD burning is a major selling point. My general opinion on component burners of any kind, for a home entertainment system, is "no," because a drive version of it will always be faster, cheaper, and more reliable.
End Qote

I must apologize. I did a little digging and found the Moxi on Digeo's site. (I think they bought it up a while ago.) The Moxi Media Center does not appear to have a burner. It does list an option cd/dvd drive, but no burner.

The selling point for me isn't a burner anyways, it's the multple tuners. I have several prime time slots where I want to record multiple things at once (Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday nights). This is also where the new RePlays look very tempting, but I believe the Tivo Series 2 has the same kind of ethernet NIC features, but an initial glance at their website doesn't show it.

Now, if the burner is something you want, try taking a look at Panasonic's new PVR, at http://www.panasonic.com/recorder. Personally I'm not interested in saving old shows as much as I am about watching things that air at the same time. I can count on one hand the number of very old shows I've kept around, and I have a 120 hr RePlay box. I'd definitely take a 2nd tuner over a dvd burner. (And I record at the lowest quality.)

I've been to the AVS Forum (mentioned below) a few times and have been impressed (re: overwhelmed) by the amount of information there. It's definitely the place to go if you want to spend a few hours digging through some good material. My devout Tivo-loving co-workers highly recommended it to me.

- Rick

Good god, I haven't used my VRC to tape a show in years. I don't even have cable. I do watch some TV but I really don't care if I miss a show or not.

Laura

I've found that the Tivo/Replay features are some that can only truly be appreciated once they are owned. (Kind of... like the Empeg?) I had several friends that didn't get it until I sat them down and showed them how to program in shows to record, the search functions and pre-generated lists of shows/movies/etc for finding obscure stuff that they would have watched had they known about, etc. (I'm not insinuating that you "don't get it", Laura! I'm just citing other people I know who have said similiar comments in the past.)

For example, I record The O'Rielly Factor every night. I don't necessarily get to watch it every day, and I only keep one show. If I miss it, no big deal. But the last aired show is *always* within reach if I want to watch it. That's a key feature, basically having any show you want at the touch of a button. That's basically Video On Demand, but the difference is that you're managing the repository yourself, rather than having to deal with a service that has had to be dumbed down and generalized for many users.

Tivos and RePlays do not themselves lead to more TV watching IMHO, they lead to signifigantly more efficient TV watching. You cannot beat reducing an hour show into 46 minutes, or a 30 minute show in 23 minutes.

Then again, some people just don't want to watch that much TV. Maybe they'd rather listen to their MP3 collection on their Empegs. I'm starting to get a renewed appreciation for the music I own as I load up the new Empeg as I did when I first got the RePlay.

- Rick
- Only one stock 10GB Empeg (I just got it last week and I LOVE it!)

I listen to music a lot more now with the empeg than I ever did before. Course I do have a qualty system now to listen to it on, my old POS system went out in the trash.

I started watching quite a bit of TV when the new shows first came out but I find myself reading a good book more and more now. I do "get" what they can do for you but to me it would be a waste.

I do watch some TV but I really don't care if I miss a show or not.

Heh. I am hooked on Survivor. TiVo feeds my addiction. I am not proud that I *must* see the show, but what the heck... It's humorous.

I like the strategy these people try thinking that they are all cunning and stealthy knowing how the game was played in the previous Survivor games. Like last night, they all assumed the tribes were merging when it became 10 people left, because it was that way the last 4 times. The word "merge" was never spoken by the host. They shared all kinds of info because it became "two tribes sharing one beach," as the host said. I yelled at the TV for 30 minutes last night that they aren't merged...

Kameo: Elements of Power by Rareware?
You're half right. Rareware yes; Kameo no. Perfect Dark is the game. But I'm actually still quite obsessed with the original. For the moment.

A second tuner is important. I can assure you that you will find yourself wanting it.
I can see it as a nice feature. And there may come a day that I have two shows that conflict and neither of them are being re-aired within the next week. But I see that as a rare enough occurrence that I may not want to go for the DirecTV TiVo. I'm pretty sure I know what I want.

As of yet, though, I'm still undecided.

Now, if the burner is something you want...
As I mentioned before, a component DVD or CD burner for the home entertainment system is something I don't think I would ever consider. My mention of that was purely in reference to what may or may not be in my new PC, when I build it.

Edit:
I believe the Tivo Series 2 has the same kind of ethernet NIC features...
It doesn't. This page has a pic of the back of the of the unit.

Yeah, you're right - I'd love a ReplayTV that worked with non-NTSC video sources [e.g. PAL] like we have in the UK or AUS/NZ.

However, the ReplayTV 5000 (and the 4500 I think too) now requires a subscription to work - just like the Tivo does.

I have two Tivos - and when you find you need to record multiple shows at once, you just need to buy another one, they are pretty cheap, its a pity the subs can't be shared!

Okay, it doesn't have a NIC out of the box, but he doesn't seem to be adverse to hacking.. Adding a NIC to a Series 2 consists of buying a USB dongle, plugging it in, and telling the TiVo to use it (make your dialing prefix ",#401"). I'd hardly even call that hacking, your grandmother could do it. Adding one to a Series 1 requires opening the case and plugging a special NIC on to the edge connector on the board.

TiVo is a lot more Empeg-like.. with a bit of tweaking to get a shell* you can add all kinds of third party software, or write your own. Replay apparently has some sort of web interface, but TiVo's is open source, tweakable, plugins, etc. You can do TiVo -> Computer archiving and then restore it back to another TiVo (or the same one obviously), instant show sharing and saving old Simpsons eps for as long as you can afford the HDs for.

*: Okay, you can't do on Series2s, yet.. there's firmware/boot loader protection that hasn't quite been hacked.

he doesn't seem to be adverse to hacking.

That's ``averse''. ``Adverse'' means unfavorable or harmful.

Just so you know the next time you want to use it in a job interview.

Well, has he been harmful to hacking at all? It would seem not, I am still able to do as much as before.

Just so you know the next time you want to use it in a job interview.

ROTFL!

I own two older RePlay units, and have co-workers that own Tivos. The Replay's price includes the lifetime subscription service, the Tivo's service costs another 200 dollars.

Of course, isn't the price of the Replay unit much higher than the initial tivo cost? The way you worded that particular point was a tad biased. Not to mention that Tivo gives you the option of a monthly subscription. So in the end they're about matched in price except that Tivo is a little more flexible.

Both units only have one tuner, and as such can only record one thing at a time. I believe MS has a combo
satellite unit/Tivo that can record two things at once, but only from the satellite service. (I may be slightly off but I do know there's some kind of limitation on the two recording thing that isn't advertised.)

Well, I believe the more popular unit was a Sony DirecTivo unit. My parents have this and I must say that it's a nice feature to have, and amazingly, when I got home and programed a few recordings, we still had conflicts! Yup, we had three shows we wanted to watch at the same time!

I admit, I'm going to be biased because my only experience is my year with Tivo.

I'll just say that I couldn't watch TV without this thing. I agree with what was stated earlier about how it changes your habits. As a big TV-watcher, I would say that it has also improved the quality of what I watch. Instead of just watching what's on, I watch what I want.

As for the units themselves, I'd have to say that Replay offers nothing I'm interested in. The commercial skip feature is okay, but I'll admit it, every once and a while, I stop fast-forwarding just to watch a commercial. Also, I can't stand the 30 second skip feature. It never works! The reality is that a commercial break is not always 4 30 second blocks of time. In fact, considering that 70% of what I watch is on Comedy Central, I'd say that their commercial breaks are NEVER divisible by 30 second increments.

Anyway, count me in for the Tivo. I'm not sure why you found it so lacking in features (and yes, ethernet is sooo easy), but I abolutely LOVE mine.


ps- one of my favorite features of Tivo is not the unit but the people who have been "affected" by it. I was at the beach with a bunch of friends one Saturday, and some guys were worried that we'd miss Sunday's football game. One guy said (of me) "don't worry, he's Tivoing it." When you first hear people use Tivo as a verb, it's a beautiful thing.

I had the amusing experience of seeing a movie at a theatre and wanting to use the "go back 10 seconds" button when some dialog wasn't clear.

Oops.

As an owner of both, I felt I needed to express my opinions:

The best comment I have heard recently is this:

"The Tivo is the Mac of the PVR world, and the Replay is the PC equivalent."

I think it's pretty accurate, really. I think the user interface of the Tivo is far better, the conflict resolution is VASTLY superior, and the Tivo remote is light years ahead of the Replay unit (although I hear the new 5xxx remote is good).

But, with all that said, I still prefer the Replay, and here's why:

1. Local/Global streaming of content. This is brilliant. Now that I have two Replay units in opposite ends of my home, I can watch content recorded on one from the other, and vice-versa. Not to mention the ability to send/receive content from other ReplayTV owners.

2. Commercial Skip: It isn't perfect, but it works for me. It's all about time management. I am in and out of an hour show in less than 45 minutes. Feels good to get that time back.

3. Extraction: The Replay architecture is FAR easier to work with in extracting content for later archival.

I had Tivo first, mostly due to mind share, but it's Replay from here on out for me. I suspect anyone interested in a PVR who also owns an Empeg that they have also hacked will agree. The Replay is far easier to "enhance".

Anyone want to buy a Tivo with 110 hours recording capability, a lifetime sub, and ethernet installed?

Hope this helps!

Rob

I think you're comments are pretty good ones, although I don't find Macs as easy to use as people say they are, so I'm not comparing my Tivo to no Mac!

Anyway, I think your points are valid, so it comes down to what you want from the unit. The way I see it, if you're only going to own one unit (like me), your first point is irrelevant. Your 2nd point is only marginal to me. If Replay's commercial skip gives you a 45 minute show, fast forwarding through the same commercials on Tivo gives you about a 45 minute and 20 second show. No big deal.

I would like to be able to store content from my Tivo a little easier. If I knew more of the tech in the proceedure, I'd attempt it, but I'm too scared to do it

Again, I can't comment on the Replay, other than the remote which sure looks over-complicated to me. The Tivo remote, to me, is so perfect it needs no changes. I like it so much, it's the only remote I don't have in my Pronto.

The Tivo remote, to me, is so perfect it needs no changes.

I've been looking around, but am a bit confused between the various TiVo models. The sony remote looks very different from the philips remote, and then there seem to be cable vs. satellite differences. Are there any hidden differences besides appearances between the various models?

Some of the ebay offerings look kind of fishy too. A person who is selling a sony svr-2000 was bidding in another auction on the identical model.

The Philips remote kicks ass. The Sony remote isn't nearly as nice. They remotes do not interoperate. You can probably borrow jhutz's Sony remote (which I think is in W3VC's shack, maybe?) and I can bring in a Philips remote, if you want to compare. The DirecTiVo has a slightly different Philips-style remote which looks acceptable. I haven't seen the Series 2 remotes to comment.

A person who is selling a sony svr-2000 was bidding in another auction on the identical model.

For less? The reselling shell game, probably.

Cool. From my little research I was already leaning towards the philips hdr312 model. I don't like sony all that much and black looks better
So now I just have to figure out my price and wait for a good time to bid.

Doesn't the hdr312 have some grey on it? (and the 112 is all black?)

I have 3 112s and I gave the 312 to my parents.

I was just checking it out vs. TiVo.

I told myself I wasn't going to get involved in a debate about religion... but as a TiVo user for more than two years now, I felt I just had to add my two cents worth.

[disclaimer]This is a biased account -- I have never used, nor even seen a picture of a Replay unit. So all I can do is tell you the things I love about the TiVo.[/disclaimer]

The user interface is far and away the best I have ever seen in a complex consumer product. You can throw away the instruction manual and completely master the thing in an hour. The power and the flexibility of programming is staggering. My TiVo will never record anything that has to do with professional wrestling, for instance; but it will record everything that has to do with (I blush to admit it) Buffy the Vampire Slayer, to the point where if Alyson Hannigan is a guest on the David Letterman show TiVo will record it. All of this happens week after week without intervention on my part other than the initial setup of preferences.

My local PBS station does a wonderful thing: They replay their very best shows daily between midnight and 6am. So I get Nova, Scientific American Frontiers, Frontier House, Nature, Rough Science, National Geographic, etc. without having to worry about conflicts with prime time programming -- and again, TiVo is smart enough to do this without intervention on my part.

On the rare occasions that TiVo does schedule to record a program of lesser interest at the expense of one I would prefer to have, I can look at the "Recording History" list which shows everything that it might have recorded but couldn't because of time conflicts; and also everything in the next two weeks that it would like to record but won't be able to because of conflicts. Conflict resolution is easy.

There is no auto-skip of commercials; if there were, I wouldn't use it. I have had auto-skip functions on VCRs, and found it unreliable. TiVo fast forwards at 60x playing speed -- I can skip through a four minute commercial break in four seconds, but still have the option of stopping, skipping back, and watching a commercial that interests me. (Some commercials are more entertaining than the programming)

TiVo is to VCR as empeg is to cassette player. It has changed both what I watch on television and the way that I watch it. Maybe I am just living in an ignorant fool's paradise -- but I cannot imagine how the Replay could possibly be as good, let alone better.

That said, I would spend serious money to have a dual-tuner standalone TiVo. Does anybody think that will ever happen?

tanstaafl.

Amen, brother, amen.

The 312 has silver/gray in the curvy center region around the HAL eye. 212s are all black, and I think the 112s are the opposite of the 312 (but I don't have one).

I've found Sony's TV-related remotes to just suck in general.

Series2 Philips remotes are the same shape.. slightly longer, with 4 additional buttons between power/live and thumbs down/up, and a slider switch to control 2 different TiVos with one remote.

I realized another great thing about PVRs today. I recorded an entire 3.5 hour football game. After you take out commercials you get about 2.5 hours. After you take out half time it's about 2.25 hours. Then after you take out the hideous between-play commentary from moronic anouncers, you get about 1 hour and 50 minutes!

LOL.... that is my biggest gripe about just about any American sport.

Back in the UK, a footie game lasts approximately 1 hour 52 minutes, including all breaks. (Just the one at half time..). I was astounded the first time I went to a live basketball match - a 48 minute game that lasted well over 3 hours. Ludicrous.

Yeah, I agree - some of those live sports like BasketBall and Football [American & Soccer kind] can be real boring to watch live.

I recall a couple of years ago when the Superbowl was on live TV, [Superbowl is always on a local public holiday here and the main Pay TV carrier runs it live].
Unfortunately we don't get to see the half-time advertisements you guys see - only the (generally boring) half-time show.

The game started about 12pm (midday) local time, I started watching it (and don't get me wrong - I *like* American Football BTW).

I got bored after about 40 minutes of not much happening, went upstairs and did some other stuff I had to do (such as vacuuming the house, having some lunch, a short sleep after lunch etc).

Every time I passed the TV, for the next 3 or so hours the Superbowl was still on (and every time I went past the TV set all the players were standing around waiting for stuff to happen),
game didn't end to nearly 4 hours after it started.

I like American Football, but only when its replayed/ in highlight only - the live stuff is just too much of generally not much happening.

I think with a Tivo/Replay you could zip to each play, watch the play [5-10 seconds worth], then zip forward again to the next play, and have watched the whole game in about 30 minutes.

Therefore you could record the superbowl on your Tivo, turn up about 3+ hours after it started, sit down, watch the whole game in 30 minutes (plus replay the plays you liked), and still be able to talk knowingly about the game to all your colleagues, co-workers etc the next day, and still be 3+ hours ahead.

If there was ever a good case to get a Tivo, then I don't know what better reasons there are.

I also make the same comments about most Soccer (Football) matches I've ever seen - watching the (soccer) ball go endlessly up and down the pitch without a goal being scored is boring to the extreme.
Its nearly as bad as an American Football match with no touchdowns or a Baseball game with no home runs.

Therefore you could record the superbowl on your Tivo, turn up about 3+ hours after it started, sit down, watch the whole game in 30 minutes (plus replay the plays you liked), and still be able to talk knowingly about the game to all your colleagues, co-workers etc the next day, and still be 3+ hours ahead.

Actually (and I hate to admit this), last year's superbowl was sooo uninteresting towards the end, we were *gasp* fast forwarding through the game and watching the commercials!

I second that. Oh, amen to BtVS too. I am not ashamed to admit that I too have a bit of an obsession with the show (and anything related to it, i.e. Angel, BtVS comics, Fray, etc). Mine started with the movie, albeit not exactly what Joss intended (the TV show is much better, and sticks more closely to his original concept), it was still funny, but it was the whole concept that really pulled me in.

Laura,

I agree with you. I hardly watch any TV right now because we moved into an apartment temporarily for six months waiting for our house to be built. This apartment only has satellite (no cable) so to avoid high installation costs we got the cheep package. The result is we've turned on the TV to watch the satellite maybe three times in the last six months, and I feel I'm better for it. I can think of tons better things to do (like reading a book) better than watching TV.

All that said, we are getting a satellite system in our new house and my wife had proclaimed that we ARE going to get a PVR with it. Not that I think this is a bad thing, I am just hoping we don't get sucked into watching stuff we wouldn't watch otherwise.

With the NFL Sunday Ticket and my dual tuner DirecTiVo I can watch two (American) football games simultaneously with no commercials and other time wasters. It's the only way to live.

Sorry to bash Replay some more but I have to make my point. I have 40-50 season passes/wishlists (repeat recordings) with constant conflicts. These are a mix of one time network/sports airings and cable shows that repeat a lot. Replay's poor conflict management, lack of prioritization and wasteful space usage would make it impossible to do with it what I do with my TiVo.

If you don't have a DVR, then 40-50 repeat recordings probably sounds ridiculous. But I record a lot of stuff I never watch. Again, that sounds silly. But, like someone described earlier, it's a sort of video on demand. I record a lot of shows where I keep just 1 of them around. I may or may not watch them on any given day but I always have an episode of the Daily Show, Seinfeld, Howard Stern and a bunch of other things around for when I want to watch them. And because TiVo gives me control over priortization I can make sure I get exactly what I want recorded.

I disagree with the TiVo/Replay Mac/PC analogy. Replay gives you less insight into and control over what is happening.

-Dylan

Umm...I have a query. Is it possible to convert my VHS tape to CDs for playback on my DVD player somehow? Perhaps an imput for auxilary or something. I never really looked into these devices before and I figure one of you guys would know. I have a ton of VHS tapes taking up major square-footage in my house!

I had the amusing experience of seeing a movie at a theatre and wanting to use the "go back 10 seconds" button when some dialog wasn't clear.

I had the same thing happen when I got my DishPlayer (it has a seven secon jumpback and 30 second jump ahead). I even envisioned the little symbol popping up in the upper right corner.

Of course I do have this control with about anything now from the couch. The ATI Remote Wonder lets me easially get around shows I have archived without using a mouse.

Sure, you can capture the VHS tapes to a computer, and burn VCD's. Time consuming, but it would let you free up some space. It would also allow you to do some editing (i.e. removing commercials, etc). Of course, there are also services that will do this for you for a nominal fee per VHS/CD, it might be a better idea to look into this if you have an extensive collection.

Okay, it doesn't have a NIC out of the box, but he doesn't seem to be adverse to hacking.. Adding a NIC to a Series 2 consists of buying a USB dongle, plugging it in, and telling the TiVo to use it (make your dialing prefix ",#401").

Do you have a site with this info? I have a friend who is currently unwilling to deal with a PVR since he believes none have broadband support. If he can simply do this, he might consider it. Also, do the newer Replay boxes have complete broadband support out of the box?

Yeah. I'm sure that there's a service out there that'll do it for you, and there might be a device you could purchase to automate it, but if you want to do it yourself with your computer, you'd have to capture the output of the VHS tape (requiring a TV-in card for your peecee), encoding that to an appropriate codec (these first two steps could be combined into one, conceivably), then recording that to a Video-CD. There are many different types of Video-CDs, and different DVD players can play different types. You could also record to DVD, if you have a DVD recorder, but there are compatibility issues with those, as well.

The major problem with this is that there's not any way to speed up capturing your tapes into your computer. VHS plays at a single speed only, so you'd have to play each tape in real time to capture it.

More info is available at http://www.vcdhelp.com. They might even have a HOWTO for exactly what you want to do.

Hmm. I thought about doing that but I'd rather not use a PC to do this task. My brothers computer has a DVD writer and video in that I would need but he LIVES on his computer so ripping it away from him would be futile. I'm just waiting for an idiot-proof way of doing it - namely a theatre combo component device that will dub VHS to DVD or VCD. With any luck some company will make something that does this.

I couldn't find the site just now, but you can assure him that Tivo does have broadband support, and it's included "unofficially" in the software. I would do it but I have a series 1 Tivo. maybe someday I'll upgrade to the series 2, but not just yet

This site has info:
http://www.tivonews.com/features/backdoors.shtml

In reply to:

---

Also, do the newer Replay boxes have complete broadband support out of the box?

---

Yes, for about a year now. There is an ethernet and phone jack on the back of every 4000 and 5000 model ReplayTV .

I will concede that the to-do list of Tivo is an awesome feature, but that’s the only feature that I envy. In actuality I have only once missed a show that I intended to record….I got that show sent to me by another ReplayTV owner the next day. Can’t do that with Tivo easily.

I have used Tivo a few times and find too much like the Microsoft office assistant. Its definitely more bubbly than ReplayTV. The commercials in the Tivo guide everywhere kills me too – OH, and that crap about force-feeding a new show to UK Tivo owners, YUCK! I pray that sonic blue never attempts that shit. My last Tivo annoyance is collecting and selling data from users viewing habits.

Even with those grips, I would still recommend Tivo over watching live TV.

The commercials in the Tivo guide everywhere kills me too

As far as I know, the only commercials in Tivo boxes are confined to one menu item on the main Tivo menu. I don't find this intrusive at all. There wasn't anything there before they added it, so it's not like I lost something. So I'm not sure what you're seeing.

Tivo's menu system might seem bubbly, but I call it simple and efficient. It's called UI for a reason. If it's kept simple and the placement of everything is just right, you don't need highly detailed multi-layered menu structures or whatever. I've seen Replay, and it's just not my style. I guess this is yet another personal taste difference.

So I guess my advice to someone looking would be: test it out in the stores and at your friends' houses.

And DeadFire, have you come to any decisions?

VCD Help also has lists of devices. You're looking for Desktop DVD Recorders and Desktop VCD Recorders. You should be able to use either of those to dub from a VCR, just as if you were dubbing from it to another VCR instead of a disc recorder.

namely a theatre combo component device that will dub VHS to DVD or VCD. With any luck some company will make something that does this.

Well, it's not an all-in-one component, but a Terapin CD Video Recorder (VCD) will get the job done.

When I first moved here, I found out that the only way to get any channels was either using a outside antenna or getting cable. I went 6 months with only being able to see 1 channel (NBC) and that had some snow. I survived I now get the basic cable which is about 10 channels maybe.

And DeadFire, have you come to any decisions?

No, I don't think I have. When I started this thread I was obviously leaning toward the ReplayTV.

Basically, I don't think I want to do any hacking. I'd rather have something that does what I want out of the box. The ethernet features of the ReplayTV are very appealing. Especially when you consider that I have a friend looking to do something similar, who watches many of the same programs I do. Thus, if I get a ReplayTV, he probably will, too, in order for us to be able to share shows or use it to suggest programs to each other simply by sending them. Also, since not all networks follow the same clock, I like using my VCR to record extra minutes before and after a program.

But, it seems that people who like TiVo like it for how it handles the basic common tasks (i.e. conflict resolution, searches, "suggested" programs, space management). And more of the people who have seen both units seem to favor the TiVo for the same reasons. I get the impression that the ReplayTV doesn't cut it in that case.

I think I've come to the point where I'd rather stick with the basics. When this all began, I simply wanted to replace my VCR in order to have more recording time and better quality. Either unit will serve this purpose just fine. The extra features have basically hindered my decision.

So I'm still undecided. But I think for now it's going to have to go on the back burner. I've got Christmas shopping to do, and probably won't be able to treat myself anytime soon.

Basically, I don't think I want to do any hacking. I'd rather have something that does what I want out of the box.

Thats what my friend wanted as well. He dosen't like the idea of having to possibly rehack his Tivo for broadband listings support. Also, ReplayTVs built in web scheduling via their servers and not the box helps him avoid any firewall configuration issues, and again, the need to seriously rehack the box every update.

That's an interesting site, not seen that one before.

One backdoor code that I've heard of before but it always make me chuckle whenever I read of it is Boat anchor mode.....

C-E-C Skip-to-end - Turns on "Boat-Anchor" mode. This convinces the TiVo that it should behave as if it has no guide data. Boat Anchor mode is automatic when the unit runs out of guide data, so this is probably only for testing purposes. A bit useless, really.

The card for Series1s is here. You pop the case (void your warranty), plug it in, and close the case.

For Series2s you just need a USB Ethernet adapter. 9thtee sells one for $17, or there's a whole bunch of other supported ones.

Once you're connected the TiVo gets an IP from your friendly neighborhood DHCP server. You go to Setup -> Phone Setup -> Connection -> Dialing Options and set the Dial Prefix to ,#401 and from then on the TiVo will use the Ethernet for service downloads. This also survives software upgrades, so you don't need to re-do it every time you get updated. If you decide to do more than that there's a whole world of web servers and video extraction/sharing you can use the card for.

Basically, I don't think I want to do any hacking. I'd rather have something that does what I want out of the box.

Thats what my friend wanted as well. He dosen't like the idea of having to possibly rehack his Tivo for broadband listings support. Also, ReplayTVs built in web scheduling via their servers and not the box helps him avoid any firewall configuration issues, and again, the need to seriously rehack the box every update.

Yes, that's all understandable. But remember, you will most likely be buying a Series 2 Tivo. It is extremely easy to add broadband support for the Series 2, plus the s2 has two USB ports for upgrades just like this.

Also, Deadfire, you said this:
Also, since not all networks follow the same clock, I like using my VCR to record extra minutes before and after a program.
Im not sure if/how Replay does this differently, but Tivo can adjust for time differences. If you know a certain show always runs over, you can set it up to start early and stop late. It's quite simple.

Oh well, all I know is that I couldn't go back to "normal" TV, as spoiled as that sounds.

Now I must get back to Tivo. She's a strict master.

It is extremely easy to add broadband support for the Series 2

I tried to convey this to him, but until he sees "Broadband Support" on Tivo.com, he's not interested. I on the otherhand wouldn't care all that much. Right now, extracting video off my Dishplayer is a pain, even with an external IDE mounted drive.

... you will most likely be buying a Series 2 Tivo.
If I decide to get a TiVo, I think that would certainly be the case.

... Tivo can adjust for time differences...
Is that so? Normally, with any show, I record the 2 minutes prior to start and after ending, because I'm sure my VCR doesn't match up with the networks' clocks. But, I was under the impression (I believe someone actually told me) that TiVo couldn't do anything like that.. So that would be another pro on the TiVo side.

Another thing I remember hearing that I didn't like was something about TiVo's daily phone call - something about sending information collected about you to the server. I don't like the sound of that at all. Now I understand that this can be disabled with a hack (at least on Series1 units), but hacking is something I feel I don't have the stomach for.

In reply to:

---

One backdoor code that I've heard of before but it always make me chuckle whenever I read of it is Boat anchor mode.....

---

Yeah, its called that BTW as thats what appears in the Tivo Logs whenever Boat Anchor Mode is "active". (And its also what Tivolutionary referred to it as in the AVS Forum.)


There is a message in one of the many Tivo Logs that says "Boat Anchor Mode active!" whenever there is no guide data and a few days have elapsed - or you trigger it by the CEC codes.

The other thing about Boat anchor mode is that the Tivo nags you everytime you press the Tivo button that "your Tivo has no service ..." and this really starts gettting annoying after a while I can tell you.

Supposedly there is a special "unlock" procedure method for the Tivos that will be released when/if Tivo ever goes out of business - so that Boat Anchor mode won't happen if Tivo goes bust.
Whether thats true or not remains to be seen.

but until he sees "Broadband Support" on Tivo.com, he's not interested.
I am undecided, not uninterested. The ethernet/broadband support, including the ability to share programs with other local units or even other units over the internet, built in, is an appealing feature.

Also, I have mentioned that I may be interested in being able to extract the video from the unit to my PC. I know ReplayTV does this natively. And perhaps it's not extremely difficult to hack a TiVo unit to do this, but, I am averse to hacking.

But keep in mind that I think I'd like that feature. I don't see it as a requirement. As I mentioned before, I'm more interested in the basics. And I've heard more positive things about TiVo than ReplayTV in that area.

we were *gasp* fast forwarding through the game and watching the commercials!

That is the only way I ever watch a superbowl.

tanstaafl.

If you know a certain show always runs over, you can set it up to start early and stop late. It's quite simple.

That's true. But one of my very few areas of dissatisfaction with the TiVo is that there is no provision for having programs start late or stop early.

Why would anybody want to do that, I hear you cry?

Because in my neck of the woods, the local television stations are so incredibly unprofessional (I don't have satellite or cable) that it is absolutely the norm for them to be running five to nine minutes late by the time 10 pm rolls around. So if there is a program I want to record on a different channel after Buffy, and I know that Buffy will be running about 6 minutes late, I can't set up a season pass to just start that program six minutes after it's nominal start time.

I would much rather miss the first six minutes of a program than the last six minutes, especially when chances are that the "first six minutes" of the program will really be the last six minutes of the preceding one on that channel.

This seems like it would be an easy enhancement for the TiVo software writers to do, they just probably never thought of it.

tanstaafl.

I recorded an entire 3.5 hour football game. After you take out commercials you get about 2.5 hours. After you take out half time it's about 2.25 hours. Then after you take out the hideous between-play commentary from moronic anouncers, you get about 1 hour and 50 minutes!

Try a 3 hour baseball game, and you can get it down to under 20 minutes.

tanstaafl.

Try a 3 hour baseball game, and you can get it down to under 20 minutes.

I bet! That's the main reason I never watch baseball anymore. That has to be one of the slowest moving sports ever. Yeah, yeah, our pasttime and all that...it's boring. I may watch a game now. Thanks for mentioning it!

In reply to:

---

I can't set up a season pass to just start that program six minutes after it's nominal start time. [...] This seems like it would be an easy enhancement for the TiVo software writers to do, they just probably never thought of it.

---

3.0 has negative padding ability, but it's not enabled by default. You can change the padding menus to any values you want with that script, down to the second.

In reply to:

---

I record the 2 minutes prior to start and after ending, because I'm sure my VCR doesn't match up with the networks' clocks. But, I was under the impression (I believe someone actually told me) that TiVo couldn't do anything like that

---

Whoever told you that was incorrect. Also, the TiVo clock is automatically set by the server during it's call. (Replay probably does the same thing.) So the clock will be kept to the correct time. This doesn't guarantee that you will align with the network's clock but it gives you a better chance. I only have a couple of shows that I have to start early.

In reply to:

---

Another thing I remember hearing that I didn't like was something about TiVo's daily phone call - something about sending information collected about you to the server.

---

Both companies collect anonymous viewing information which they aggregate and sell. TiVo has an official opt-out policy which can be done with a phone call. To quote SonicBlue, "At present, users also cannot opt-out of the collection of Anonymous Viewing Data."


-Dylan

No, the ReplayTV license reserves the right to collect data but does not currently do so.

Rob

I don't suppose anyone's figured out how to start recording late automatically, have they? That is, record the last 28 minutes of Seinfeld if my Buffy runs over by 2 minutes, rather than not recording it at all? Or even if one program is scheduled a few minutes off, like TBS used to (still does?) do?

If not, I don't suppose you'd like to pop up and tell me when it happens?

Not that I don't believe you but as a consumer I can only go by what the offical policy states. Who's to say they won't change their mind tomorrow? Are you going to call me up on the phone and tell me that they are now actually collecting information?

If SonicBlue isn't actually collecting the data then they should change their stated policy.

-Dylan

Are you going to call me up on the phone and tell me that they are now actually collecting information?

Well, the rumor on the street is that the official opt-out procedure may have something to do with calling The Wrestler's and having a round of pints waiting for the Cambridge team.

Well, the rumor on the street is that the official opt-out procedure may have something to do with calling The Wrestler's and having a round of pints waiting for the Cambridge team.

One flaw in that plan is that we don't have much to do with that product... buying a round of pints for the entire Santa Clara team (who made ReplayTV) would be a pretty expensive undertaking.

Peter

Bah... details. Come on, it's the same big, heartless company. In fact, we all know that you guys embedded a transmitter into the Empeg design that's beaming "anonymous usage data" from our car players back to empeg HQ. Just admit it.

In reply to:

---

Are you going to call me up on the phone and tell me that they are now actually collecting information?

---

No, but if you watch the AVS forum at all you wouldn’t miss it. This wouldn’t get past some of the very sharp guys over there that have gotten into the ReplayTV machine code. They have already verified that this is currently not happening.

This would be a huge topic on the forum if Sonic Blue started collecting data - probably a bigger than the tuner thread is here ;-)

I actually don't give a rat's ass about the information that TiVo or Replay collects as long as it's anonymous. I'm glad my viewing habits are being sold. Maybe it will lead to better programming and advertising.

But if it were a deciding factor for me I would only go by the published policy. Let's say it was something important to me like they sold my viewing habits along with my phone number so I got more telemarketing calls. If that was the case, it wouldn't matter a lick to me that they don't sell the information today. What would matter is that they have reserved to right to do so in the future without an opt-out policy. And if I considered this unacceptable then my only recourse would be to throw away the multi-hundred dollar investment I made in the hardware and service.

-Dylan

3.0 has negative padding ability, but it's not enabled by default. You can change the padding menus to any values you want with that script, down to the second.

Now that is seriously neat.

However, my TiVo is truly a "black box" (well, silver, actually) to me. I couldn't even tell you what version of software is in it (I think it gets upgraded automatically during the nightly phone calls, doesn't it?) and I would certainly not have the skills (or courage) to go in and start hacking it.

Any chance that this negative padding might be included as part of the standard software someday?

tanstaafl.

You should have at least 3.0 by now, maybe 3.2 if you've got a Series2. It's in Setup -> System Info.. updates are twice a year-ish and automagically install at 2am after download. The padding script just changes the list of offsets times (in seconds) and their labels.. 3.0+ interprets negative numbers as reverse padding. So it is part of the standard software, sort of.

It could be included someday, but I wouldn't say it's likely.

If you can say setup /programs{0,1} and get empacman installed you could handle basic TiVo hacks if you wanted to.. The only complication is getting bash on the serial port.

In reply to:

---

negative padding ability

---

Replay has this as a standard feature. There is a undocumented feature called "sports guard". Once enabled, it will automatically record extra on the end of sporting events. This is helpful for previously mentioned American football games that never finish on time.

Hacking your name green isn't a good idea...

I guess a bug report to the UBBThreads people is in order

Peter

There is a undocumented feature called "sports guard". Once enabled, it will automatically record extra on the end of sporting events

so how does it work? is it automatic? does it let you select how far over it will go?

By the way, what you're talking about is not "negative padding ability". What you're talking about is also, of course, standard on Tivo.

What tanstaafl was talking about was being able to start late and end early. Not start early and end late. The later is standard on both units, I gather. So does Replay have the first one?

Unfortunately its not automatic - You select in the setup screen how long to over record sporting events.

Sorry for the confusion about negative pad. I doubt ReplayTV can do that.

I hardly ever use padding on records - it creates too many recording conflicts. I observed a very interesting behavior of ReplayTV in regards to padding. Playback starts from the scheduled start, not the padded start. I can see the logic behind this since the show was scheduled to start at that time and the pad is just in case. Does Tivo behave this way also?

Does Tivo behave this way also?

Y'know, I can't really tell you. I've never told TiVo to start recording a program early -- the TV stations in my town can't even get their programs started on time -- much less earlier than scheduled.

[rant]In case anybody is curiious as to why (and how) this can be... the TV stations in Alaska do not air network programming directly off the satellite. Remember, we are an hour earlier than West Coast time, so if we did that, our prime time scheduling would start at 6pm. Instead, they record the network shows off the East Coast feed (four hours earlier than Alaska) and then play them whenever they damn well please. This means that they can play a few extra minutes of commercials in each show, so as the evening goes on, they become further and further behind. It is not unusual on Sunday nights for the local ABC affiliate to be nine minutes late when 11 pm rolls around. The only TV station in town with the slightest bit of professionalism is the local PBS station.[/rant]

tanstaafl.

Does Tivo behave this way also?

No, but it's not like 2 minutes at 60x is going to cost you a lot of time. Neat feature, nonetheless.

MMmmm . . . Alyson Hannigan

"Bored Now!" Mmmmm

Just posting that you can get a 40 hour Replay 4504 from CircuitCity.com for $199 after two $50 rebates. Search for 4504.

You can also pick up the new 5000 series 40 Hour from Good Guys for $219 after one $50 rebate and 10% off coupon code. The coupon code is visafall.

Both these deals are for the PVR only, not service. Lifetime activation is $250. Have fun!

Thanks for the info. But I think I'm going to be holding off on this for a while. I have some other things to worry about, including Christmas gifts for the family. But I haven't given up, I assure you.

i must agree with robroy on Tivo remote being the best. it is skinny and the ergonomics is great. just feels right in your hand.

tivo's interface is such a pleasurable experience. i never tried replay but from what i read i rather have tivo's advance scheduling than replay's features.

i just bought my tivo through goodguys website and if you talk to a salesman over the phone you can get a 5 year warranty on the unit for $75. so if you buy it with a lifetime subscription, the total is $625. Tivo, for five years comes to a measly $0.34/day. well worth it!

Yeah but hows that going to work with the lifetime subscription. If the unit dies won't goodguys just swap it for a different unit and then you won't have the lifetime subscription on the new unit.

Well, as I mentioned in the newer thread on this topic, I believe I'm going to get myself a ReplayTV 5000, although I will be waiting a while (few other things on my mind). I won't jump right into the lifetime subscription on it. In the even that I am somehow disappointed with the unit, it won't be painful to try out TiVo later on.

I started out originally looking for something to replace my VCR. I had been hearing about DVRs and they looked very interesting. And to me, since I didn't feel like ordering a DirecTiVo (the regular ones aren't worth it to me), the ReplayTV just feels like the way to go. That is, of course, when I make that journey.

For info on how malfunctions affect lifetime subscriptions, read TiVo's Product Lifetime Description.

When I did the search for 4504, all I came up with was this.

But I can't seem to find TWO $50 dollar rebates, just one. Any idea where the other one is? Thanks!

That post is almost a month old. The deals are not as good now.

My bad, I didn't even look at the date

Isn't it possible to completely circumvent Tivo's own listing service with an ethernet hack, some software and a connection to the net? Included or not, if I can't use a listing of my choice (for free or close to it) and be able to use it for my own lifetime, I'm not very interested in the product. Especially since I'm outside of the US and niether Tivo nor Replay offer subscription anyway.

For now I'll be doing PVR using an ATI All-In-Wonder and a PC sitting inside my TV cabinet. Video quality will likely be better than a Tivo and Replay, but the scheduling and software won't hold a candle to the finished consumer products.

Bruno

I guess that was my point that with most of those instore extended warranty claims they just swap the unit out and it has nothing to do with the manufacturer. So then you would lose the lifetime subscription on the replacement unit.

Yes it's possible.. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tivo_canada

Thanks.. Just subscribed to that Canadian Tivo board.

Here's a link for anyone wanting to do PVR on a PC... http://www.snapstream.com

Version 3 (about to be released) sports a very nice interface. I believe Canadians once again are out of luck with regards to guides. There's a 3rd party application that acts as a bridge between Zap2It and the SnapStream server software though. Not as clean having to use this other program with its own listings of course.

Bruno