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Also, do the newer Replay boxes have complete broadband support out of the box?

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Yes, for about a year now. There is an ethernet and phone jack on the back of every 4000 and 5000 model ReplayTV .

I will concede that the to-do list of Tivo is an awesome feature, but that’s the only feature that I envy. In actuality I have only once missed a show that I intended to record….I got that show sent to me by another ReplayTV owner the next day. Can’t do that with Tivo easily.

I have used Tivo a few times and find too much like the Microsoft office assistant. Its definitely more bubbly than ReplayTV. The commercials in the Tivo guide everywhere kills me too – OH, and that crap about force-feeding a new show to UK Tivo owners, YUCK! I pray that sonic blue never attempts that shit. My last Tivo annoyance is collecting and selling data from users viewing habits.

Even with those grips, I would still recommend Tivo over watching live TV.

The commercials in the Tivo guide everywhere kills me too

As far as I know, the only commercials in Tivo boxes are confined to one menu item on the main Tivo menu. I don't find this intrusive at all. There wasn't anything there before they added it, so it's not like I lost something. So I'm not sure what you're seeing.

Tivo's menu system might seem bubbly, but I call it simple and efficient. It's called UI for a reason. If it's kept simple and the placement of everything is just right, you don't need highly detailed multi-layered menu structures or whatever. I've seen Replay, and it's just not my style. I guess this is yet another personal taste difference.

So I guess my advice to someone looking would be: test it out in the stores and at your friends' houses.

And DeadFire, have you come to any decisions?

VCD Help also has lists of devices. You're looking for Desktop DVD Recorders and Desktop VCD Recorders. You should be able to use either of those to dub from a VCR, just as if you were dubbing from it to another VCR instead of a disc recorder.

namely a theatre combo component device that will dub VHS to DVD or VCD. With any luck some company will make something that does this.

Well, it's not an all-in-one component, but a Terapin CD Video Recorder (VCD) will get the job done.

When I first moved here, I found out that the only way to get any channels was either using a outside antenna or getting cable. I went 6 months with only being able to see 1 channel (NBC) and that had some snow. I survived I now get the basic cable which is about 10 channels maybe.

And DeadFire, have you come to any decisions?

No, I don't think I have. When I started this thread I was obviously leaning toward the ReplayTV.

Basically, I don't think I want to do any hacking. I'd rather have something that does what I want out of the box. The ethernet features of the ReplayTV are very appealing. Especially when you consider that I have a friend looking to do something similar, who watches many of the same programs I do. Thus, if I get a ReplayTV, he probably will, too, in order for us to be able to share shows or use it to suggest programs to each other simply by sending them. Also, since not all networks follow the same clock, I like using my VCR to record extra minutes before and after a program.

But, it seems that people who like TiVo like it for how it handles the basic common tasks (i.e. conflict resolution, searches, "suggested" programs, space management). And more of the people who have seen both units seem to favor the TiVo for the same reasons. I get the impression that the ReplayTV doesn't cut it in that case.

I think I've come to the point where I'd rather stick with the basics. When this all began, I simply wanted to replace my VCR in order to have more recording time and better quality. Either unit will serve this purpose just fine. The extra features have basically hindered my decision.

So I'm still undecided. But I think for now it's going to have to go on the back burner. I've got Christmas shopping to do, and probably won't be able to treat myself anytime soon.

Basically, I don't think I want to do any hacking. I'd rather have something that does what I want out of the box.

Thats what my friend wanted as well. He dosen't like the idea of having to possibly rehack his Tivo for broadband listings support. Also, ReplayTVs built in web scheduling via their servers and not the box helps him avoid any firewall configuration issues, and again, the need to seriously rehack the box every update.

That's an interesting site, not seen that one before.

One backdoor code that I've heard of before but it always make me chuckle whenever I read of it is Boat anchor mode.....

C-E-C Skip-to-end - Turns on "Boat-Anchor" mode. This convinces the TiVo that it should behave as if it has no guide data. Boat Anchor mode is automatic when the unit runs out of guide data, so this is probably only for testing purposes. A bit useless, really.

The card for Series1s is here. You pop the case (void your warranty), plug it in, and close the case.

For Series2s you just need a USB Ethernet adapter. 9thtee sells one for $17, or there's a whole bunch of other supported ones.

Once you're connected the TiVo gets an IP from your friendly neighborhood DHCP server. You go to Setup -> Phone Setup -> Connection -> Dialing Options and set the Dial Prefix to ,#401 and from then on the TiVo will use the Ethernet for service downloads. This also survives software upgrades, so you don't need to re-do it every time you get updated. If you decide to do more than that there's a whole world of web servers and video extraction/sharing you can use the card for.

Basically, I don't think I want to do any hacking. I'd rather have something that does what I want out of the box.

Thats what my friend wanted as well. He dosen't like the idea of having to possibly rehack his Tivo for broadband listings support. Also, ReplayTVs built in web scheduling via their servers and not the box helps him avoid any firewall configuration issues, and again, the need to seriously rehack the box every update.

Yes, that's all understandable. But remember, you will most likely be buying a Series 2 Tivo. It is extremely easy to add broadband support for the Series 2, plus the s2 has two USB ports for upgrades just like this.

Also, Deadfire, you said this:
Also, since not all networks follow the same clock, I like using my VCR to record extra minutes before and after a program.
Im not sure if/how Replay does this differently, but Tivo can adjust for time differences. If you know a certain show always runs over, you can set it up to start early and stop late. It's quite simple.

Oh well, all I know is that I couldn't go back to "normal" TV, as spoiled as that sounds.

Now I must get back to Tivo. She's a strict master.

It is extremely easy to add broadband support for the Series 2

I tried to convey this to him, but until he sees "Broadband Support" on Tivo.com, he's not interested. I on the otherhand wouldn't care all that much. Right now, extracting video off my Dishplayer is a pain, even with an external IDE mounted drive.

... you will most likely be buying a Series 2 Tivo.
If I decide to get a TiVo, I think that would certainly be the case.

... Tivo can adjust for time differences...
Is that so? Normally, with any show, I record the 2 minutes prior to start and after ending, because I'm sure my VCR doesn't match up with the networks' clocks. But, I was under the impression (I believe someone actually told me) that TiVo couldn't do anything like that.. So that would be another pro on the TiVo side.

Another thing I remember hearing that I didn't like was something about TiVo's daily phone call - something about sending information collected about you to the server. I don't like the sound of that at all. Now I understand that this can be disabled with a hack (at least on Series1 units), but hacking is something I feel I don't have the stomach for.

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One backdoor code that I've heard of before but it always make me chuckle whenever I read of it is Boat anchor mode.....

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Yeah, its called that BTW as thats what appears in the Tivo Logs whenever Boat Anchor Mode is "active". (And its also what Tivolutionary referred to it as in the AVS Forum.)


There is a message in one of the many Tivo Logs that says "Boat Anchor Mode active!" whenever there is no guide data and a few days have elapsed - or you trigger it by the CEC codes.

The other thing about Boat anchor mode is that the Tivo nags you everytime you press the Tivo button that "your Tivo has no service ..." and this really starts gettting annoying after a while I can tell you.

Supposedly there is a special "unlock" procedure method for the Tivos that will be released when/if Tivo ever goes out of business - so that Boat Anchor mode won't happen if Tivo goes bust.
Whether thats true or not remains to be seen.

but until he sees "Broadband Support" on Tivo.com, he's not interested.
I am undecided, not uninterested. The ethernet/broadband support, including the ability to share programs with other local units or even other units over the internet, built in, is an appealing feature.

Also, I have mentioned that I may be interested in being able to extract the video from the unit to my PC. I know ReplayTV does this natively. And perhaps it's not extremely difficult to hack a TiVo unit to do this, but, I am averse to hacking.

But keep in mind that I think I'd like that feature. I don't see it as a requirement. As I mentioned before, I'm more interested in the basics. And I've heard more positive things about TiVo than ReplayTV in that area.

we were *gasp* fast forwarding through the game and watching the commercials!

That is the only way I ever watch a superbowl.

tanstaafl.

If you know a certain show always runs over, you can set it up to start early and stop late. It's quite simple.

That's true. But one of my very few areas of dissatisfaction with the TiVo is that there is no provision for having programs start late or stop early.

Why would anybody want to do that, I hear you cry?

Because in my neck of the woods, the local television stations are so incredibly unprofessional (I don't have satellite or cable) that it is absolutely the norm for them to be running five to nine minutes late by the time 10 pm rolls around. So if there is a program I want to record on a different channel after Buffy, and I know that Buffy will be running about 6 minutes late, I can't set up a season pass to just start that program six minutes after it's nominal start time.

I would much rather miss the first six minutes of a program than the last six minutes, especially when chances are that the "first six minutes" of the program will really be the last six minutes of the preceding one on that channel.

This seems like it would be an easy enhancement for the TiVo software writers to do, they just probably never thought of it.

tanstaafl.

I recorded an entire 3.5 hour football game. After you take out commercials you get about 2.5 hours. After you take out half time it's about 2.25 hours. Then after you take out the hideous between-play commentary from moronic anouncers, you get about 1 hour and 50 minutes!

Try a 3 hour baseball game, and you can get it down to under 20 minutes.

tanstaafl.

Try a 3 hour baseball game, and you can get it down to under 20 minutes.

I bet! That's the main reason I never watch baseball anymore. That has to be one of the slowest moving sports ever. Yeah, yeah, our pasttime and all that...it's boring. I may watch a game now. Thanks for mentioning it!

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I can't set up a season pass to just start that program six minutes after it's nominal start time. [...] This seems like it would be an easy enhancement for the TiVo software writers to do, they just probably never thought of it.

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3.0 has negative padding ability, but it's not enabled by default. You can change the padding menus to any values you want with that script, down to the second.

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I record the 2 minutes prior to start and after ending, because I'm sure my VCR doesn't match up with the networks' clocks. But, I was under the impression (I believe someone actually told me) that TiVo couldn't do anything like that

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Whoever told you that was incorrect. Also, the TiVo clock is automatically set by the server during it's call. (Replay probably does the same thing.) So the clock will be kept to the correct time. This doesn't guarantee that you will align with the network's clock but it gives you a better chance. I only have a couple of shows that I have to start early.

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Another thing I remember hearing that I didn't like was something about TiVo's daily phone call - something about sending information collected about you to the server.

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Both companies collect anonymous viewing information which they aggregate and sell. TiVo has an official opt-out policy which can be done with a phone call. To quote SonicBlue, "At present, users also cannot opt-out of the collection of Anonymous Viewing Data."


-Dylan

No, the ReplayTV license reserves the right to collect data but does not currently do so.

Rob

I don't suppose anyone's figured out how to start recording late automatically, have they? That is, record the last 28 minutes of Seinfeld if my Buffy runs over by 2 minutes, rather than not recording it at all? Or even if one program is scheduled a few minutes off, like TBS used to (still does?) do?

If not, I don't suppose you'd like to pop up and tell me when it happens?

Not that I don't believe you but as a consumer I can only go by what the offical policy states. Who's to say they won't change their mind tomorrow? Are you going to call me up on the phone and tell me that they are now actually collecting information?

If SonicBlue isn't actually collecting the data then they should change their stated policy.

-Dylan

Are you going to call me up on the phone and tell me that they are now actually collecting information?

Well, the rumor on the street is that the official opt-out procedure may have something to do with calling The Wrestler's and having a round of pints waiting for the Cambridge team.

Well, the rumor on the street is that the official opt-out procedure may have something to do with calling The Wrestler's and having a round of pints waiting for the Cambridge team.

One flaw in that plan is that we don't have much to do with that product... buying a round of pints for the entire Santa Clara team (who made ReplayTV) would be a pretty expensive undertaking.

Peter

Bah... details. Come on, it's the same big, heartless company. In fact, we all know that you guys embedded a transmitter into the Empeg design that's beaming "anonymous usage data" from our car players back to empeg HQ. Just admit it.

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Are you going to call me up on the phone and tell me that they are now actually collecting information?

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No, but if you watch the AVS forum at all you wouldn’t miss it. This wouldn’t get past some of the very sharp guys over there that have gotten into the ReplayTV machine code. They have already verified that this is currently not happening.

This would be a huge topic on the forum if Sonic Blue started collecting data - probably a bigger than the tuner thread is here ;-)

I actually don't give a rat's ass about the information that TiVo or Replay collects as long as it's anonymous. I'm glad my viewing habits are being sold. Maybe it will lead to better programming and advertising.

But if it were a deciding factor for me I would only go by the published policy. Let's say it was something important to me like they sold my viewing habits along with my phone number so I got more telemarketing calls. If that was the case, it wouldn't matter a lick to me that they don't sell the information today. What would matter is that they have reserved to right to do so in the future without an opt-out policy. And if I considered this unacceptable then my only recourse would be to throw away the multi-hundred dollar investment I made in the hardware and service.

-Dylan

3.0 has negative padding ability, but it's not enabled by default. You can change the padding menus to any values you want with that script, down to the second.

Now that is seriously neat.

However, my TiVo is truly a "black box" (well, silver, actually) to me. I couldn't even tell you what version of software is in it (I think it gets upgraded automatically during the nightly phone calls, doesn't it?) and I would certainly not have the skills (or courage) to go in and start hacking it.

Any chance that this negative padding might be included as part of the standard software someday?

tanstaafl.

You should have at least 3.0 by now, maybe 3.2 if you've got a Series2. It's in Setup -> System Info.. updates are twice a year-ish and automagically install at 2am after download. The padding script just changes the list of offsets times (in seconds) and their labels.. 3.0+ interprets negative numbers as reverse padding. So it is part of the standard software, sort of.

It could be included someday, but I wouldn't say it's likely.

If you can say setup /programs{0,1} and get empacman installed you could handle basic TiVo hacks if you wanted to.. The only complication is getting bash on the serial port.