http://www.apple.com/switch/

http://technojunkie.org/berniec/ferrell_switch.html

frankly, I think these switch commercials are a joke. The arguments these people have are completely stupid.

"I don't get it" " I get the mac, I don't get the pc"

Thats cuz your an f'ing moron! There are 15 year olds hacking DVD encryption and you can't figure out how to bring up IE or M$ Word? ( I mention internet browsing and a word processor because these are basically the only 2 things these people will be able to do on the mac).

The problem, IMO, is that with pc's, there is a MUCH wider variety of applications and features and abilities to play around with and get curious about and because these people don't know WTF they're doing, they gotta muck with everything including downloading everything that has jpg or mpeg in the name and 2000 screensavers giving them all sorts of problems either because they don't know how to manage it properly or get nice little virus's to go with their cutsie little "Elf Bowling". If these people would stick with just browsing the web and typing their xmas lists and letters to grandma, they would have no problems.

Now when they switch to mac, they are basically locked into 5 applications with less stuff to muck around with and find it much more difficult to find things to download and play with keeping them out of trouble.

I could go on about this and I have before with a much better argument, but i'll stop now because I know i'll already have replies from mac users sticking up for their fisherprice pc's.

you´re right. you don´t get it!!!

So your explanation for how to use Wintel effectively for non-``expert''s is to only use two applications in order to keep your computer from crashing?

That's at least as stupid as not being able to express one's problems any better than ``I don't get it.''

I'll give you that there are fewer PoS freeware applications for Macs, but 90% of the real things that you want to do on Wintel you can do on a Mac, and a few that you can't. In addition, 90% of those things you can do by simply doing them. You don't have to dork with the registry to get your digital camera to work, etc.

Microsoft wants you to know how to change your oil, replace your brake rotors, and rebuild your transmission in order to drive your car. Apple wants you to know how to turn the ignition and put it in drive, but that doesn't mean that there aren't any brakes or tranmission there. They simply work without you having to dork with them.

Try actually using a Mac before you bash the hell out of them, next time.

I've used macs and also administered a company with about 30 of them. All mac users doing desktop publishing. Out of all the companies i've administered, i've never had as many issues as I had there. There might not be a registry to muck with, but there are TONS of applications that do not play well with all the others. Along with having to muck with memory allocation.

My explination for how to use "wintel" pc's was not to go downloading every link you find and mucking around with every setting just because it's there. To just use the pc the same way you are FORCED to use a mac, just open a browser and browse. Open a word processor and type.

MacOS 9 definitely had some issues that were almost all related to poor memory management. MacOS X fixes all of those issues.

My problem with your ``solution'' is that you can do as many things with a Mac as with a PC. Your intimation that the only things that you can do with a Mac are browse the web and word process is insulting, which is, of course, what you're trying to be. An A for effort.

The problem is that people want to do much more than that with a home computer. A Mac (with MacOS X) allows you to do those things without worrying about your computer crashing. Windows most definitely does not. And a Windows machine can easily crash just trying to get things that will just allow you to browse the web. I believe that there are numerous posts on this board about trying to get Flash to work.

Video editing is much much easier on a Mac. Wish I'd have gone that route, I still can't get decent editing with the PC and my buddy with the Mac is making DVDs all over the place... Granted the commercials are stupid, most are, but the Mac is more than a word processor and surfing machine...

I disagree, even, that the commercials are stupid. Stop thinking like a computer expert and think like an average consumer who wants to do computer-y things. All of the computer experts already have a likely unchangeable opinion on Macs. These ads are for the average consumers. I think that targeting your commericals that specifically makes a lot of sense.

The commercials show random ordinary people who proclaim in very simple terms why their Macs worked better than their Windows machines for them. Most people don't want to know how computers work. Many people don't have computer expert friends to fix things up for them. Many computer experts are tired of going to their friends' houses to do so.

You don't have to dork with the registry to get your digital camera to work, etc

If the camera comes with working Mac drivers, obviously...

Oops. Meant to point out that there are fewer pieces of hardware available for Macs than Wintels, in addition to software. Not to mention that you have to do some (potentially minor, like reading the box) research to discover this fact, too.

Good point.

Yep - I get this viewpoint from my parents, and some of my less technical siblings. Mum always used Macs, but then someone got her a new PC when one Mac finally died and now we need to visit and rebuild it every 6 months or so. And she installs nothing - just uses Word, Excel and Photoshop.

My kid brothers breaks their PCs regularly and need assistance.

MS products have finally become so crap (at stability and ease-of-use, before we get into the flamewar zone) that I already have one brother onto Linux and Mum is tempted - not because she has geek tendencies, but because it is easier. She won't need to phone me up and be talked through regedt32. She won't need to reinstall drivers for the scanner/printer/camera. And she is quite happy to go to StarOffice because it does what she needs and doesn't bugger about with things.

Okay I'm very biased against MS, and I'm a Mac incompetent, but I'd still prefer a Mac to a Windows PC. Especially as MacOSX is one of the "good" OSes. As opposed to the moral evil that is the MS Borg.

> I've used macs and also administered a company with about 30 of them....i've never had as many issues...

Ditto. I administered a 100 PCs and 10 Macs once, and the Macs were my problem children. They had more errors than the PCs, and the errors were much more arcane. Even when I failed fixing a problem and we called in experts, they couldn't fix them all the time either. I wasn't anti-Mac before that job, I am now.

My problems with Apple is that they have ALWAYS claimed they were easier to use and have less problems, and it has always been a complete lie. Now Apple says OS X is better, and Apple says it is easier to use, but I just don't trust Apple's claims anymore.

btw, OSX is just *nix (BSD?) with mac's GUI. Of COURSE it's going to be more stable than both mac OS and windows.

So therefore, bringing up OSX is not submissable in this discussion because it is not the true mac os I have issues with. It is not their own OS.

MS products have finally become so crap (at stability and ease-of-use, before we get into the flamewar zone) that I already have one brother onto Linux and Mum is tempted - not because she has geek tendencies, but because it is easier. She won't need to phone me up and be talked through regedt32. She won't need to reinstall drivers for the scanner/printer/camera.

Are we talking about Win9x/WinME here, or real operating systems like Win2k and WinXP ?

It's hardly ``just *nix with mac's GUI''. That is, it's more than just that. And the GUI is totally redesigned from MacOS 9 and before.

The Unix is Darwin, which is based largely on FreeBSD, and there's some Mach in there as well.

erm yes - good point. I was just feeling ranty, and didn't really provide the opposing view regarding 2000.

(I still dislike XP though)

(I still dislike XP though)

Thankfully you can make it look, largely, like Win2k again...

I don't really see how that's a vast improvement.

Are we talking about Win9x/WinME here, or real operating systems like Win2k and WinXP ?

A very good point. All anti-Win or pro-Mac people seem to run on the assumption that every single version of Windows is exactly the same, and bad. While I'm not a fan of Windows XP, the Professional version, in my experience, is almost as stable as Win2K.

As for me, it's Win2K on a Dell that I've been screwing with for a year and a half. It's no longer recognizable as one of Dell's machines. in 18 months, it has crashed exactly twice. And I am referring to real crashes here. Not one little freeware program that's not guaranteed to work not working. One crash was under WinME which came installed on it. I got rid of that quick. Home editions of MS OSes will always be utter crap. The other crash, under Win2K, was my own fault. I applied a Service Pack before upgrading certain hardware drivers (which I had received warnings from software to do), and it happened that the old drivers were not compatible with the Service Pack. And that wasn't a difficult fix.

I learned on Windows machines in high school; a trade school. Our lab was PCs, while the whole of the rest of the school was Mac. So I had a chance to play with Macs, too. I didn't like the feel of them back then, but now I have somewhat more justifiable reasons. Specific pieces of software and hardware being one of them.

Aside from that, Macs have always been like a home appliance, in my view. Plug it in and use it; don't mess around, and you shouldn't have problems. While this may be great for some people, I like to mess around.

So that means either Windows or one of countless version of Linux to me. But *nix OSes have always been intimidating to me, and so I'd need a strong reason to justify switching. My current machine is quite stable.

So I don't like Macs because of exactly what they try to be. The computer that you just plug in and it works (usually). I generally like things in nice neat little packages, but also do like a number of features (empeg comes to mind).

The thread shouldn't be a flame war. It should be a list of people's opinions. But while I'm here, let me just point out that I can't stand people comparing Macs to Windows. I'd give an anology if I could dream one up, but I don't feel that people are justified when the compare an entire machine (including OS and hardware) to someone else's operating system. PCs can be just as easy to use as Macs. PC does not equal Windows.

So let's not flame about which is better. One person has his/her reasons for using Macs; others have their reasons for using Windows or *nix. There's no point in trying to convince someone that the choice they thought about and made was wrong, simply because someone else says it is.

a PC can be very stable...you just have to know what you're doing...you all seem to be experienced computer users...

now i'm no computer genious, but i built my own system, and made sure to keep all my installs clean and not to fill my computer with junk...and it runs great...on XP. I think PC's are very easy to mess up...but it's usually not their fault...

i would switch to mac if it wasn't so hard (or costly) to upgrade hardware (by hardware i mean processor, RAM, etc.)

See now I like this reply. As much as i'm complaining about macs, I know they have their place *cough*K1classroom*cough*. The reason I get upset is these commercials. The commercials are pushing people complaining that they "don't get" or can't use windows, or the fact that it keeps crashing. And that switching to a mac solves all hte problems and is so much easier. And my comment to them is that they are mucking around with apps/settings too much in windows that they will not be able to muck with on the mac, so of course their brand new $3000 toy won't crash.

My favorite one was a guy that I think said he was an IT Administrator. Now come on. I'm not buying his story one bit. Ever tried managing appletalk? I have, it's not pretty.

The commercials show random ordinary people

Who all happen to look like they are under the influence of cannabis.... Yep, that's the target market for Macs!

(Disclaimer: I love Macs and think they're easy to use. I just thin the Switch campaign is ridiculous.)

my comment to them is that they are mucking around with apps/settings too much in windows that they will not be able to muck with on the mac

Do you really think that your grandma (replace this with the owner of the computer you're constantly going over to fix) is dorking with the registry or replacing hardware drivers? No. Other than those things, which I'd consider ``under-the-hood'', what should allow you to make your computer less usable? IMO, nothing. But Windows becomes less usable even if you do nothing but run the same single program over and over.

Ever tried managing appletalk?

Ever tried managing IPX/SPX? It's just as big a PITA.

Oh, and I'll never speak ill of the man who made The Thin Blue Line. You've got to respect anyone who can really change the world in a positive manner, especially while disguising it as entertainment

Plus, how can you go wrong with a device known as the Interrotron?

We have exactly one Mac (Power G4) in my group, and its for video editing. The capabilities of that machine are just awesome. We never have problems with it, compared to the Windows boxes. Of course, we admin the Mac, but IT admins the Windows machines... go figure. Our SGI boxes give us the least amount of trouble (except for when hardware goes down - then it gets ugly quick), but we admin those ourselves also.

Just because the style is great, doesn't mean the substance is.

The switch commercials are really annoying to me. I know the audience they're speaking to, and that's my mom. What's the problem? She has a Mac at work, and has nothing but problems.

Plus, I just want to slap some of those people "I'm so-and-so, and I saved Christmas!" UGH! How annoying. Besides, that particular one was a bunch of crap. As if you don't have to download drivers for a Mac. I have and I don't even own one! I hooked up somebody else's camera to my PC for a 20 minute demonstration, and it only took about 2 minutes to get everything installed. That father of the girl in that commercial is an idiot.

Both systems can have their incompatabilities, but I don't have annoying people trying to sell me PC products. **

-edit-
**and no, I don't count Steven

You know, it's not a good idea to taunt the admins favorite platform

Anyhow, I agree with the additude you have with the switch commercials. They seem silly to me, but are addressing the consumer market, and not the techie market. (The techies have commercials like what CDW is putting out).

But I don't agree with most of what you say about the platform. First, let me draw a very clear line. Mac OS 9 and below sucked. Back in the Windows 3.1 days, the platforms were at the same tech level. But the Mac OS never really advanced much beyond that. Mac OS X, being a merger of Nextstep, BSD, and some new technologies, is a completly different beast from 9. X is the main reason I decided to switch.

I mention internet browsing and a word processor because these are basically the only 2 things these people will be able to do on the mac).

Wrong. Out of the box, I can do more with my Mac then I can with my Windows box. iPhoto is my sole photo managment program, and all I had to do to set it up was plug in my digital camera, and hit import. iMovie has been used by a friend to create a rough cut of his movie in very little time. He's now considering Final Cut Pro once it's in full production. iTunes, well, it's used more by me then any media program was on the PC. If I wan't already set in my media managment ways due to the empeg, I'd probably use iTunes all the time for that. At this point, these are the apps that allow me to get multimedia work done without worying about getting the process to work right. Owners of a DVD burner in a Mac enjoy the same simple, but powerful iDVD to create DVD movie discs. And once I'm done getting work done, I can tinker all I want by either adding software similar to TweakUI, or by playing around in the terminal application, giving me a direct path to the Unix core. Once I get bored with that, I can come back and get some web development done. I open up my favorite editor, code some PHP, hit save, and use my browser to test it. The difference between my PC and Mac here is that I never had to upload the file for testing, I simply let the built in Apache do the server PHP rendering. When I do finally want to upload the site, I yet again just open a terminal session and run SCP. (As most servers I work with now do not allow FTP).

I now have my G4 cube at work, and it is used for everything I need. It integrates decently with the network (though Services for Unix on the Windows 2K servers would allow me to authenticate with the Active Directory as well).

If these people would stick with just browsing the web and typing their xmas lists and letters to grandma, they would have no problems.

My grandmother only does these things on her PC, but somehow it still implodes from time to time. Why? Well with the great insecurity that IE is, she simply clicks on a normal looking web link to cause all kinds of chaos. Or she reads an innocent looking e-mail, and yet again has a massive virus infection. If I could switch her to a Mac, I would in a heartbeat. Then, a simple lesson in not typing your admin password unless you know why it's being asked would solve so many problems if these type of viruses ever made their way to the Mac. (Mac OS X follows the general guideline that no user is logged in as an admin. They simply authenticate a process under sudo if necessary).


Now when they switch to mac, they are basically locked into 5 applications with less stuff to muck around with and find it much more difficult to find things to download and play with keeping them out of trouble.

www.versiontracker.com. Enough said there...

I know i'll already have replies from mac users sticking up for their fisherprice pc's.

Hey, that term around here is reserved for describing the Windows XP native interface

I don't have annoying people trying to sell me PC products.

``Dude, you're getting a Dell''-guy isn't annoying? And, if possible, the new ``interns'' are worse.

Don't forget the recent Gateway ads that remind me of browsing the web. As far as I can tell, they are simply the same banner ads placed around most of the screen, then a small video and cheezy music depecting some unrelated activity.

Thank god for PVR. I can skip all commercials, and simply watch the switch parodies online

``Dude, you're getting a Dell''-guy isn't annoying? And, if possible, the new ``interns'' are worse.

PSSST! Check out the end of my post. it was edited before you replied

Besides, Dell is selling to the same audience as Apple is. Are we to assume that technophobes need highly annoying morons to sell them their computers?