So has anyone gotten to check out one of these units
http://www.twcminnesota.com/sales/cable/dvr/dvr_faq.html#contract

I know it's not better than my tivo but it's alot cheaper, I wouldn't have to use the incredibly slow IR blaster thing, and it will record two channels at once.

I'm wondering how bad it is it looks like it does season pass but there is nothing like the thumbs up and down tivo feature.

I would kill for a standalone TiVo with dual tuner support. It's like #1 on my list

I don't care so much about the dual tuners as that now I have to use a cable box and the IR blaster thing sucks bad.

I should have just asked to move to an apartment on the south side of the building when my lease ran out in november and just gotten a direct tv.

I have used the TW PVR for a month. It was nice in some aspects:
1) $10 / month (no up front cost)
2) picture in picture
3) record 2 things at once

down sides:
1) no indication of free space remaining
2) immature conflict resolution
3) only comes in 40G size
4) I really missed my ReplayTV commercial skip feature

For the price it was acceptable. It is WAY better than watching live tv!

I have one of these things from Time Warner Austin.

The good bits,
The units here in Austin come with an 80G drive which is silent
Pause Live TV.
Record two shows and watch a recorded show at the same time.
You setup recording from the standard guide, no relearning
Interface is simple
Built in PIP

The Bad (and really bad) bits
Frequent reboots and lockups (once every week or two)
The interface is incredibly immature, with major holes in its functionality as well as inconsistant reliablity.

I make sure I call in any of the bugs I find, but the answer from support is usually that they have already reported it to Scientific Atlanta.

Overall, the box is OK, but the potential is so much better.
The manufacturer site is http://www.scientificatlanta.com
One extra not so great thing, none of the firewire, USB, video connectors actually work! Apparently they might be enabled by a future firmware upgrade.

Wow, that's not a great endorsement. I would also love to see a Tivo w/dual tuners and possibly even HDTV support, but the latter hasn't been in their plans AFAICT.

I can just about live with it, considering it costs nothing to buy!
But you do get what you pay for

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I would also love to see a Tivo w/dual tuners and possibly even HDTV support, but the latter hasn't been in their plans AFAICT

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One major problem for Tivo [and others] is that implementing two Tuner support for analogue TV requires two of the expensive Sony MPEG2 encoding chipsets plus supporting stuff, like memory and the like.

For DirectTivos, they record the video stream which is already converted into a MPEG-like stream, so all they have to do in this case is implement dual satellite tuners - relatively cheap, then select which of the many "streams" to record to disk "as-is".
For Playback, they only need one "playback" chip - as you can only watch one channel at a time, even if you record two shows at once.
[not sure but can a DirectTivo record two channels, while you watch a recorded earlier program? - like the TW PVR does?]

The TimeWarner is a Digital cable only PVR, which means its like the Directtivo in that it gets already encoded MPEG2 video streams, so merely records them to hard disk.

re: HDTV support, that gets even trickier as you have so much more data to shuffle around inside the box, even once its converted to MPEG format.
This normally requires more CPU and faster disks - which is one reason Tivo moved to the new Series boxes (apart from being cheaper to make no doubt also), as they have more CPU available.
Not that the Tiveo needs much CPU as most of the processing thats CPU intensive uses the dedicated encoding an decoding chips for that - being able to play mp3 requires CPU though and thats probably why they did what they did for the series 2 hardware.

now what would be nice is the ability to "watch" two programs at once (either playback 2 shows from disk, or mix and match 1 or 2 live shows with recorded content) - you'd need to do this either: using the PIP feature, or side by side in "wide-screen mode" on your widescreen TV - you could do some really cool stuff this way...

...Now thats what I call PowerViewing...

I think I would miss the tivo suggestions I think. That's why I got the tivo2 instead of a replay tv. Maybe they will add some more features. They should have just had tivo make it for them.

[not sure but can a DirectTivo record two channels, while you watch a recorded earlier program? - like the TW PVR does?]

Yes

Austin Time Warner is crap, even though they don't make the box, they are crap and they dish out crap. I hate them with a passion. They know it and I know they hate me. The feeling is mutual, but they still think all that damn junk mail and phone calls will get me back... sheesh! I love DirecTV...

BTW did anyone else see the news tidbit about cable rates, yet again, rising more than inflation? 6.3% vs1.1% for the first half of 2002...

Yeah after having DirecTv for a while, cable seems so...well...ordinary. And it costs more! People round here pay $70+ a month if you want movies. That is crazy.

One major problem for Tivo [and others] is that implementing two Tuner support for analogue TV requires two of the expensive Sony MPEG2 encoding chipsets plus supporting stuff, like memory and the like.

How expensive could it be? I can buy a complete Tivo unit for about $200, and would not hesitate an instant to spend twice that amount to have dual-tuner capability.

tanstaafl.

A few of us here were talking about this just last night.

The other thing is those damn sony encoders have like no available documentation unless you have big $$$.

Bleah.

I can buy a complete Tivo unit for about $200

But how much did that $200 Tivo actually cost to make ?

yes, but the current way, you have to buy two Tivos, and two subs.
that covers the cost of the Tivo(s).

Integrating two [analogue] Tuners into a single Tivo, plus software to control them both, plus other extras [like more memory etc], would make it uneconomic to do unless there was a large demand for them.

Better for Tivo to sell lots of single Tuner boxes...

Not true. Tivo doesn't (or didn't) lose any money on the making of the units. They also didn't get any money for the sale of those units. It was all the subscription. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Tivo does have something to do with the series 2.

Still, the fact remains that manufacturing a Tivo unit with another chip in it can't cost more than two Tivos, and we're all willing to pay that much. How can you say that's not economical?

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...Tivo doesn't (or didn't) lose any money on the making of the units...

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That seams hard to belive.

Tivo FAQ

"TiVo makes its money from the subscriptions to the TiVo service. It makes no money from the sale of TiVo hardware units. Therefore, TiVo has no interest in selling units without the TiVo service."

I do not know how this applies to the Series 2. I believe the situation has changed slightly.

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It makes no money from the sale of TiVo hardware units.

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Well, that may be the case, but those mail-in-rebates that Tivo gave out to folks came from Tivos pockets and no-one elses.
Tivolutionary confirmed that some time ago.
The only way for Tivo to make that back is with subscriptions.

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Therefore, TiVo has no interest in selling units without the TiVo service."

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Thats right, and what better way for Tivo to make even more money, than by selling two subs for folks (like you) who want to record two programs at once?
If you bought only 1 Tivo that could record two programs at once, then you should have to "pay" at least twice as much in sub-fees as a Tivo that records only one show at a time?

Would you pay 2x your current subscription fee for this feature, assuming the hardware was available?

I doubt it.

Tivos business model was to sell *subscriptions* to subscribers/Tivo owners (and viewing information from your Tivos to advertisers).
I don't see that that model has changed much with the series two models coming out.

I think you're going to have to have 2 Tivos and 2 subs for the forseeable future - if you want to record two analogue channels at once.

Its what I do [except I don't pay the sub or use the guide service, but thats another story].

yeah but if there is another product for less that records two shows at once then what.

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yeah but if there is another product for less that records two shows at once then what.

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Then you dump your Tivos and use that device instead.

Thats assuming of course that the new product has a decent UI, accurate guide data/tv listings service and a whole bunch of other "nice-to-have-features-that-really-become-important-to-you-once-you-have-used-those-features".

I consider the Tivo to be the empeg of PVRs, maybe its not perfect, but its a lot better than the alternatives for now.

One day there will be a better alternative to Tivo (or empeg), and when that day comes for some it won't be soon enough - maybe this describes you as far as dual tuner analogue tivos goes?

I agree with you that's why I didn't get one but there are alot of people that don't have a tivo that will see this for less and never try the tivo to find out they like it better.