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#138490 - 31/01/2003 05:42 Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement
puckalicious
member

Registered: 18/01/2002
Posts: 171
So I've decided Norton Ghost sucks. The big one.
No matter what I do I can't ghost my primary drive to my backup anymore. It may be an issue with the source drive being larger than the destination drive, but the amount of data is well below the target. The strange thing is Ghost used to work for this setup. Any recommendations for a program to perfectly copy disk images for backup? Preferably cheap/easily available?

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#138491 - 31/01/2003 07:16 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: puckalicious]
lopan
old hand

Registered: 28/01/2002
Posts: 970
Loc: Manassas VA
what version of ghost are you using? Are you getting any kind of error? The reason I'm asking, is this might mean something more then crappy software. We use ghost everyday, for the most part it rocks especially ghost 7 being that it actually lets you burn images to cd. The only time we have errors or problems like yours is when we get a bad hard drive or one on the verge....
_________________________
Brett 60Gb MK2a with Led's

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#138492 - 31/01/2003 08:15 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: lopan]
Ezekiel
pooh-bah

Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
I had a failing drive that wouldn't image no matter what. Xcopy, PowerQuest Drive Image etc. Certain sectors could not be read, but the OS's just tried repeatedly ad infinitum without giving errors. It just failed. The problem with the drive was that is was 'getting slower'. This didn't go away with defragging either. Just a possibility you can consider. HTH.

-Zeke
_________________________
WWFSMD?

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#138493 - 31/01/2003 09:37 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: Ezekiel]
puckalicious
member

Registered: 18/01/2002
Posts: 171
Well it's Ghost 2001, don't know the exact version number. The drive I'm trying to ghost is a brand new seagate 'cuda and works very well so I doubt it's on the verge of failing. Ghost worked the very first time I used it but then I get an error right away when trying to copy an image now. It's the same regardless of the method, disk to disk, partition to partition, disk to partition, etc. I'll check tonight on the actual error description.

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#138494 - 31/01/2003 09:49 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: puckalicious]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4909
Loc: Orange County, NY USA
Is it a Windows box? If so, this is the cheapest you can get:

C:\>XCOPY *.* D: /C /H /E /K /R
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

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#138495 - 31/01/2003 10:03 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: puckalicious]
jimhogan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
It's the same regardless of the method, disk to disk, partition to partition, disk to partition, etc.

You may have already covered these, but I'd also consider swapping IDE cable, checking PIO/DMA in BIOS, etc.

I see that dd is getting some attention from the feds for forensics-grade copying, FWIW.
_________________________
Jim


'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.

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#138496 - 31/01/2003 10:09 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: jimhogan]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Ghost can write an image onto a different sized disk as long as there's enough space for the data, IIRC. dd can only write an image to an equal-sized or larger partition/disk than the original, and if it's larger, you'll end up wasting space because the filesystem will be the same size as the original, unless you can find an extra tool to resize the filesystem to match the underlying drive space.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#138497 - 31/01/2003 20:16 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: robricc]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5398
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
C:\>XCOPY *.* D: /C /H /E /K /R
No.

Well, maybe...

If you are running it in a DOS window, it won't do the job -- it will choke when it hits Windows files that are un use. But perhaps if you reboot into DOS mode first, then it would copy all of the files.

But you would *not* end up with a bootable D: drive, which I think is the object of the game. And if you were trying to do the Ghost thing across a network, then you wouldn't see the network if you were in DOS mode.

I have had marginally acceptable results using an older copy of Drive Image -- perhaps some of the problems are operator error, but it seems inconsistent in the amount of time it takes -- sometimes it will run in just a couple of minutes, other times it gets caught up in some sort of media checking thing that takes literally hours. And I was never able to figure out how to make the version of Ghost I had do a full, bootable backup. Again, probably just my own ineptitude...

tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

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#138498 - 31/01/2003 20:37 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: tanstaafl.]
lectric
pooh-bah

Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2082
Loc: New Orleans, LA
I use ghost and partition magic all the time. When I set up a new machine configuration, I get it all running, Use Pmagic to reduce the partition size to a few hundred megs bigger than needed, ghost an image to a file, and stick it on my storage server. Since the vast majority of installs are <2G, I can fit quite a few in my raid. When I have another with the same setup, I ghost the image to the new drive, pop it in the new computer, change machine name, IP, etc, use partition magic to re-expand the partition to whatever the specs are, and I'm done. 20-30 minutes on average.

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#138499 - 31/01/2003 20:45 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: puckalicious]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13983
Loc: Canada
Linux:

cp /dev/hda /dev/hdb

or even gzip - </dev/hda >diskimage.gz

There are lots of boot-and-run-from-CD Linux distros that don't require ANY installation..

-ml

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#138500 - 31/01/2003 21:34 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: mlord]
lectric
pooh-bah

Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2082
Loc: New Orleans, LA
In reply to:

There are lots of boot-and-run-from-CD Linux distros that don't require ANY installation




Yeah, but that's because Linux cheats and actually does things like they should be done. Windoze has lots of extra "magic" stuff mixed in there.

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#138501 - 01/02/2003 08:15 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: lectric]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13983
Loc: Canada
So take advantage of it.. run windows from hard disk, and when you need to "ghost" a drive or partition, just boot linux from a runnable CD and do the backup.

Cheers

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#138502 - 01/02/2003 20:48 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: tanstaafl.]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4909
Loc: Orange County, NY USA
In Windows9x:
C:\>XCOPY *.* D: /C /H /E /K /R

SYS C: D:
will copy your drive and make it bootable.

Ghost works across a network in DOS mode. Well, that is as long as you have DOS drivers for your NIC. The only way to run ghost is in DOS.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

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#138503 - 01/02/2003 22:07 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: robricc]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5398
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
In Windows9x:

C:\>XCOPY *.* D: /C /H /E /K /R
SYS C: D:

will copy your drive and make it bootable.


Hmmm... shows how little I know...

But are we talking bootable, as in Windows 98 will run? In other words, if I were to FDISK my D: drive, then:

C:\>XCOPY *.* D: /C /H /E /K /R

could I then go to my BIOS, change the boot sequence so D: was the first boot drive (or alternatively, open the case and swap the cables and jumpers on the two drives), and my system would come up and run, just as though I were using the C: drive?

If so, this is exactly what I am looking for.

tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

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#138504 - 01/02/2003 22:14 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: tanstaafl.]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4909
Loc: Orange County, NY USA
After you did the SYS command you would be able to boot the new drive exactly as if it were the old drive. SYS copies the boot record/files of one drive to another.

If you were to do SYS C: A: you would get a bare-minimum DOS boot floppy.

To answer your question, yes. But as [I think] you said, you should do the XCOPY command and SYS command from within windows so the long file names don't get trampled.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

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#138505 - 01/02/2003 23:30 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: robricc]
image
old hand

Registered: 28/04/2002
Posts: 770
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
if you start w/ a winME bootdisk, then long filenames will be supported

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#138506 - 01/02/2003 23:49 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: image]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4909
Loc: Orange County, NY USA
same with windows 98, but xcopy will not recognize them. When you run xcopy from within windows, it acually launches xcopy32.exe. I tried using this file in a pure DOS environment once, but it didn't work.

Yeah... I think I'm not talking out of my a$$. It's been a while since I did any of this and all my machines at home run WinXP, so I cannot fact-check myself.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

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#138507 - 02/02/2003 20:35 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: puckalicious]
clsmith
member

Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 183
I've been using HDCopy.
_________________________
CLS

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#138508 - 03/02/2003 00:40 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: robricc]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5398
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
you should do the XCOPY command and SYS command from within windows so the long file names don't get trampled.

But, surely, if I did this in a DOS window running in Windows, wouldn't some of the Windows files currently in use fail to copy? In fact, wouldn't they just cause the XCOPY to abort?

tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

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#138509 - 03/02/2003 08:49 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: tanstaafl.]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4909
Loc: Orange County, NY USA
The /c switch takes care of that. The only file that I know fails to copy every time is the swap file. Trust me, I used to use this method all the time. You can review what the other switches do here:

XCOPY source [destination] [/A | /M] [/D[:date]] [/P] [/S [/E]] [/V] [/W]

[/C] [/Q] [/F] [/L] [/G] [/H] [/R] [/T] [/U]
[/K] [/N] [/O] [/X] [/Y] [/-Y] [/Z]
[/EXCLUDE:file1[+file2][+file3]...]

source Specifies the file(s) to copy.
destination Specifies the location and/or name of new files.
/A Copies only files with the archive attribute set,
doesn't change the attribute.
/M Copies only files with the archive attribute set,
turns off the archive attribute.
/D:m-d-y Copies files changed on or after the specified date.
If no date is given, copies only those files whose
source time is newer than the destination time.
/EXCLUDE:file1[+file2][+file3]...
Specifies a list of files containing strings. Each string
should be in a separate line in the files. When any of the
strings match any part of the absolute path of the file to be
copied, that file will be excluded from being copied. For
example, specifying a string like \obj\ or .obj will exclude
all files underneath the directory obj or all files with the
.obj extension respectively.
/P Prompts you before creating each destination file.
/S Copies directories and subdirectories except empty ones.
/E Copies directories and subdirectories, including empty ones.
Same as /S /E. May be used to modify /T.
/V Verifies each new file.
/W Prompts you to press a key before copying.
/C Continues copying even if errors occur.
/I If destination does not exist and copying more than one file,
assumes that destination must be a directory.
/Q Does not display file names while copying.
/F Displays full source and destination file names while copying.
/L Displays files that would be copied.
/G Allows the copying of encrypted files to destination that does
not support encryption.
/H Copies hidden and system files also.
/R Overwrites read-only files.
/T Creates directory structure, but does not copy files. Does not
include empty directories or subdirectories. /T /E includes
empty directories and subdirectories.
/U Copies only files that already exist in destination.
/K Copies attributes. Normal Xcopy will reset read-only attributes.
/N Copies using the generated short names.
/O Copies file ownership and ACL information.
/X Copies file audit settings (implies /O).
/Y Suppresses prompting to confirm you want to overwrite an
existing destination file.
/-Y Causes prompting to confirm you want to overwrite an
existing destination file.
/Z Copies networked files in restartable mode.

The switch /Y may be preset in the COPYCMD environment variable.
This may be overridden with /-Y on the command line.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

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#138510 - 03/02/2003 09:03 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: robricc]
simspos
enthusiast

Registered: 28/03/2002
Posts: 230
Loc: Dudley, UK
Hey Rob, nice to see some good 'ol MS-DOS training on the empeg bbs, so little flaming going on too...... (soon we'll be embracing the wonders of Windows )

Cheers, Sim

Your order number is 73
Order placed at Mon 3 Feb 2003 8:27 am

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#138511 - 03/02/2003 09:43 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: robricc]
puckalicious
member

Registered: 18/01/2002
Posts: 171
So will using XCOPY create a bootable copy after all? Even without the swap file copying? I'm trying this tonight.

This forum rocks!

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#138512 - 03/02/2003 11:43 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: puckalicious]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4909
Loc: Orange County, NY USA
After you run XCOPY, you must run SYS to make the drive bootable.

The format for the SYS command is:
SYS [source drive] [destination drive]

So, if your source is C: and your new drive is D:. then
SYS C: D:
will make it bootable.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

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#138513 - 04/02/2003 04:30 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: robricc]
puckalicious
member

Registered: 18/01/2002
Posts: 171
Alright I xcopy'd my drive but the sys command does not work. Using win2k, it says "'sys' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file."

Is there an equivalent command in win2k?

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#138514 - 04/02/2003 07:05 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: puckalicious]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5592
Loc: London, UK
Is there an equivalent command in win2k?

No. IIRC, making the disk bootable is not that simple in Win2k.

_________________________
-- roger

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#138515 - 04/02/2003 07:25 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: Roger]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4909
Loc: Orange County, NY USA
I agree with Roger. I have not found a way to copy a drive from within Win NT/2000/XP and make it boot.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

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#138516 - 04/02/2003 08:47 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: robricc]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
I have not found a way to copy a drive from within Win NT/2000/XP and make it boot.

Boot off the OS cd and do a repair option. Then only select the boot file repair option. As long as the boot.ini file was copied over to the new drive, it should pick up on it and make the disk bootable.
_________________________
Tom

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#138517 - 04/02/2003 10:34 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: drakino]
Ezekiel
pooh-bah

Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
Not 100% OT but, http://www.bootdisk.com has some useful links for utilites & booting. I used them a while ago when I made up my bootable, W2k+sp3 install CD http://www.nu2.nu/bootcd/.

-Zeke
_________________________
WWFSMD?

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#138518 - 06/02/2003 08:20 Re: Ok I'm giving up on Ghost, need replacement [Re: puckalicious]
tracerbullet
addict

Registered: 08/01/2002
Posts: 419
Loc: Minnesota
I just backed up my system last night, it was incredibly easy… I only needed the diskette that was included with one of the hard drives when I bought it. I’ll explain what I did – forgive me since most everyone on this board knows a lot more about computers than I do, but I just can’t see why everyone is confused about a simple duplication process.

My main drive is a Western Digital 120SE, and I wanted to back it’s contents (about 40 Gig worth of Win XP, some apps, and games) onto an older 60Gig Samsung that I have. I yanked one of the CD drives, and stuck the Samsung in it’s place, then booted from WD’s floppy. It’s a very straightforward process – “drive to drive copy”, then just choose your “from” and “to” drives. It ran for about 4 hours and was complete. You can choose what partition size you want as well – I just let it fill up the drive.

I stuck the Samsung (the backup) in place on IDE 1 to check it out (and put the CD drive back where it was) and restarted the machine. Booted fine, ran the “check for consistency”, and wanted a restart (because it found a new drive brand and it was a different size). After the restart, it worked perfectly. I checked e-mail (dumb move since now I have mail on the backup but not my primary), played a bit of Unreal, and checked out a few other programs as well. Ins hort, it made a perfect duplicate. No fuss, no extra money to buy Norton, nothing at all. Couldn’t have been easier.

Norton and similar programs obviously have their strong points, but if you’re just copying from one IDE to another, and don’t mind swapping a few cables for a short period, it really can’t get easier than the diskette that comes with whatever drive you own…

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