Guys.. After reading some posts, I am wondering something...

The MK1 had some downfalls. For instance the thump after you turn it off. What other problems did it have that weren't fixable via upgrades.

Just wondering because I know someone selling a mk1.

Actually, I never had any turn-on or turn-off thump at all on my Mark 1. If it's wired properly, it shouldn't do that. There was an odd thump when I started the car with the player running, but that was an unrelated problem and I fixed that myself. Now it's completely thump-free.

The Mark 1 is a great unit, and I'm very happy with mine. The Mark 2 has more features, but the Mark 1 is certainly not "incomplete" by comparison.

The features the Mark 2 gains over the Mark 1 are:

- Rotary input knob.
- New faceplate style.
- Microphone input for VR (not yet implemented).
- Availability of a red faceplate (Mk1 is blue/green/amber only).
- Cell phone mute input.
- Headlight dimmer input.
- Ethernet input.

Features that the Mark 1 still has, same as the Mark 2:

- Nearly unlimited storage potential.
- Amazing VFD display and visuals.
- Incredibly flexible EQ.
- Great playlist managament and searching capability.
- Tweakable shuffle modes.
- Fast uploads via USB.
- Use-anywhere flexibility.
- Pull-out security.
- Constant software upgrades and improvements.
- Fantastic customer support.
- "Wow" factor.

The Mark 1 had one other problem which is fixed on the Mark 2: The floating ground outputs. On some installations, the floating ground adapters didn't work as intended and there was still a ground loop in the system causing some noise. In my case, this was caused by having a multi-amp system where every amplifier had a different ground potential, so it was my fault. I simply tuned the amp gains properly and the noise floor is quite good now. In single-amp systems, or systems that are properly grounded, this shouldn't even be a problem, so don't let that scare you.

___________
Tony Fabris

One thing I forgot to mention: The Mark 1 currently has an advantage over the Mark 2 (although not for long). It's got an FM tuner. Mark 2 owners are still waiting for theirs.

___________
Tony Fabris

The MK1 had some downfalls..

None that I can think of, really.
The thump after you turn it off was a problem initially, but I fixed it using the thump device of Little John. Basically a set of relays that keep the Mk1 alive for some 2 seconds, while the amp is being switched of. I believe the same principle is used in the Mk2 to avoid the thumps, but Little John solved it as an external adaptor. Have a look in the projects section if you need it; not all amps need it. If you can't find it, let me know.

Yeah, the cabling loom at the back of he sled is kind of awkward, especially if you needed the floating-grounding cables, getting the sled into the dash is tedious. Also, the sled scratches the player a bit. And it's more plain looking if you call that a downfall. Overall there is nothing wrong with a mk1 at all. I found the tump a big problem, but that got resolved with Little John's 'de-thump' device.

The difference with the Mk2 is that the Mk2 has a more features: faster processor; more memory; bigger drives; Ethernet; the extra rotating knob; dash-light sensor; telephone mute; and (not there yet: voice recognition). And the empeg guys gave it a real good look. I like(d) the plain-ness of the Mk1 and was afraid they would be messing it up on the Mk2, but they haven't. The Mk2 is again of very plain design, but richer. And it is claimed that the Mk2 has less background noise. I can't tell, but haven't listened to them side by side. Both are excellent in-car players.

Finally, there are two areas where the Mk1 is better than the Mk2: the display (at least the amber-mk1 compared to the red-mk2). In a BMW the radio sits pretty high up in the console and the mk2 is hardly readable there at all in day light. I often wish it had the same display as the mk1. And that the mk1 has a built-in radio radio while the (optional) external radio for the mk2 hasn't been delivered yet.

The biggest differences are in the looks, I believe.
Anybody disagreeing? Am I forgetting anything?

Henno
mk2 6 nr 6
former owner of mk1 00120

Just a few points:

The processor is the same speed in the Mk.2 as in the Mk.1.

The Mk.2 display is actually brighter than the Mk.1 but it doesn't have an anti-reflective coating (yet). The next batch should have AR and we expect to offer replacement panels for existing owners at a discount.

Rob

Not really related to the discussion at hand here, but this question came to mind and I'm curious now. There were what... 350 MK1's sold? Were any returned due to dissatisfaction with the unit? I'm going to guess (with no facts to back this up whatsoever) that maybe 5 were returned or re-sold due to unsatisfied customers. If that's the case, that's a rate of 2%. That is either going to sound high or low to you, depending on whether you take into account they only sold 350 and how you look at it. Overall, 2% is high, but when there were only 350 out there, 2% is nothing. If 1000 units were sold and 5 was still the number, that would be .005% (5/1000ths of a percent)... an AWESOME sign of the satisfaction rate.

What I'm trying to say is that out of all the players sold, the vast majority of clients were extremely happy with their purchase. In fact, some sold their MK1's simply because they wanted a Mk2 and had the money to do something like that. Ethernet was probably a big seller on the Mk2, I think. Remember that the Mk1 was a NEW and UNPROVEN product, with a very limited production. The people who bought the unit originally had no reason to believe the unit even EXISTED, but they shelled out some BIG $$$ anyhow. That says quite a bit about the confidence the clients had in the people behind the unit. Empeg actually managed to convince people to buy from them without any previous marketplace presence. That's a helluva concept to grasp and accept in such a cut-throat industry!

(Looks like I may actually get my player today, according to the FedEx website, but I'm not holding my breath. I *suppose* I can wait until Monday, if I HAVE to. ) Hey, that's another benefit of buying a Mk1... you don't have to worry about CUSTOMS hanging onto your unit, while they figure out what it is!!!

George

Erm, from memory I think there was only one return. The client insisted the player didn't work - worked perfectly when we got it back. I resold it to a member of staff, who is quite happy with it.

We've sold over a hundred Mk.2 players to original Mk.1 clients so far, so I think that shows a rather astounding level of satisfaction with empeg. This percentage of repeat custom on such a high price item is rather rare.

Rob

Hehe... I actually remember you saying a while ago that there was only that one player and I remember you saying every piece of that. But, only having 1 unsatisfied customer didn't seem realistic for my example! It's unheard of! LOL! So, I ratcheted up the number a little bit to make my point more obvious (quick to quote that I had no basis for the numbers).

Thanks for the info. That's absolutely outstanding to hear and says so much about you and the rest of the company, as well as the product! ...So, when's the IPO? I remember this question being asked, too, and one of you guys said there were no plans to go public at present. GOOD! We don't need a bunch of guys in suits (i.e. shareholders) deciding what's best... we need you guys!

George

We don't need a bunch of guys in suits (i.e. shareholders) deciding what's best

Our (private) shareholders very rarely wear suits, so I guess that's OK!

Rob

I'm a little bummed out too after reading this. I wish I had known that empeg was going to add the coating... I ordered an extra face plate too that will be sans coating... I agree - we should be able to get the upgraded plates for free. I'd be willing to send mine back in to get updated if need be...

I have a Miata (MX-5) and I think the coating will be important for the sun that will be pouring into the car...

- Jon

We didn't know we were going to add the coating until a while into production. There may be something we can do; we'll have to see what we can work out.

Hugo

Hey Hugo,

Thanks for your consideration. I've watched you guys "do the right thing" so many times in the past. I have complete faith that you'll do something that is fair.

- Jon

Another angle on this thread. I've got a Mk1 and I see no need to upgrade to a Mk2. The Mk1
really gets the job done for me and I actually prefer that plain 'home made' look of the front
panel.

So WRT to you picking up a second hand one; go for it. It'll certainly be a damn sight cheeper
than the Mk2. On the face of it you'll find it hard to justify the extra cost of buying a Mk2 based on
the additional features...

.Peter

they should now rename mk2 to mk2.5 its a newer ver!

The next big batch may have a different rotary control: not that you will be able to tell, it'll be the same control just a different switch mechanism (if we can get them in less than about 4 months!).

There are various changes, but mainly these are just component substitutions so that we can actually build the things (ie, replacing components we can't get for love/money/camels with ones that are in better supply).

Hugo

It most certainly is! I guess I should've said a bunch of stuffed shirts that know nothing about what the product actually does or what goes into making it. Yeah, that's more accurate. You don't need any of those.

George