I am attempting to figure out what type of system I can actually put in my '70 Mustang. I would really appreciate some advice as I've no clue. My goal is to create a system for moderate listening; not for excessive volume. I'd like to DIY the install as much as possible but I'm going to need professional help with the speakers since I'm figuring I'll need custom kick panels in the front.

The options for speaker locations are very poor. The car originally had one mono speaker in the middle of the dash. No other speakers in the front. The rear had 2 6x9's on the rear deck but I've added a fold down seat option to allow for an enclosure if necessary. All the speakers will be replaced but due to space limitations, they will tend to a smaller footprint side.

I would like to install a subwoofer but am looking for cleaner sound as opposed to massive bass.

As to amp(s), I have a chance to pick up a Helix amp while in Paris but don't know which one I need or if I need one or two. The only head unit will be an Empeg with a tuner module. The main reason I'm considering Helix is feedback in the forum and small size. The options are:

http://www.audiotec-fischer.com/brax_helix/english/helix/performance_line/verstaerker/hxa20x.html
http://www.audiotec-fischer.com/brax_helix/english/helix/performance_line/verstaerker/hxa40x.html
http://www.audiotec-fischer.com/brax_helix/english/helix/precision_line/verstaerker/hxa400.html

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Also if anyone knows of good installer in the Pittsburgh area, I'd could use a recommendation.

You may want to check your links.

Thanks. The site appears to be down currently.

http://www.audiotec-fischer.com/

Here's an alternate

http://www.theautophile.com/products/HXA400.html
http://www.theautophile.com/products/HXA20x.html
http://www.theautophile.com/products/HXA40x.html

The car originally had one mono speaker in the middle of the dash. No other speakers in the front.

If you haven't already, I'd recommend also asking this question on a BBS or newsgroup that is focused purely on Mustangs.

Yes, we empeggers are pretty knowledgeable, but your question is more of a "customizing a classic car for an aftermarket stereo" question as opposed to a "empeg installation" question. By asking in a 'stang group, you'll be able to get many more specific examples of things that other 'stang owners have done.

Will do but it typically falls into 2 camps. Purist who feel that anything other than original is sacrilege or the bigger is better set who start with a sub and work forward. There are a few who straddle the middle but the cars weren't designed for audio so its a bit tough.

Good point. But you'll still have better luck finding those examples in the bigger pool of Stang owners.

Off the top, I like the 40x amp (2 of them)... I had a similar setup with some Rockford Fosgates in my last car. (That is a pair of small 4 channel amps).

Since they are bridgeable, you could use one amp to power the sub and rear speakers (2 channels bridged into the sub, and the other two channels used one for each rear speaker), the other to power the fronts (each gets a bridged signal). The built-in crossovers should be fine (they normally are, I don't know specifically about these).

Overall you'd get plenty of volume but nothing earth-shattering. The setup is easy - empeg - amps - speakers, and that's it. The two amps being the same size lets you easily make some sort of symetrical installation with them in the trunk or under the seats.

There may be something better, but this would be easy, and sound with good speakers. If you're focused on this brand, do they offer anything with a 5 or 6 channel output? It would be a similar setup but likely cost less to get it into one chassis.

Thanks, that's probably what I'lll wind up doing although they do offer two 5 channel amps. I'll need to see what the price difference is though.

http://www.audiotec-fischer.com/brax_helix/english/helix/precision_line/verstaerker/hxa500.html

Seems nice, although 50W may seem a little short for the front speakers. Well, depends on what you want. For most, that's really enough.

MY last car I had about 45W to each rear speaker, and ~120W to each front speaker and also to a pair of 10" subs. I thought it sounded great, they all had the gains set about the same, and ran out of power at about the same time, which was at an uncomfortably loud volume.

I like it louder than most though. I don't go booming down the road and I make sure to not disturb the neighbors. But on the freeway coming into work or going home, it's up a few notches louder than I think most people would want it. Personal preference I guess.

Rule of thumb, historically, was double the power to your subs as you would to the front speakers, and double the power to them as you would to the rears. This is old school though, 10 years ago when I was really into it more. I still like the fronts to have more power than the rears (if I can tell the rears are making noise, they're too loud for me - I like almost everything to come from the front). The subs to me can be about the same as the fronts though. Unless you like rap...

I'm not sure if it'll be loud enough either. I took Tony's advice on posting to the Mustang forums. They raised a similar point on whether it'll be loud enough to drown out a 351 and set of 3 chamber flowmaster mufflers.

I had never really considered the planning that goes into a system until I started reading this forum. I really appreciate the comments. Hopefully, enough will have sunk in to understand what the installer is saying next week.

"Drowning out" that beautiful 351 is a sacrilige.

I prefer to think of it as the lesser of 2 evils. The engine will no longer drown out my Empeg.

The engine will no longer drown out my Empeg.

Actually, can you please record the sound of your 351 as an MP3 so I can play it on my empeg? The 3.8L V6 in my '99 Stang just doesn't do it for me.

Ohh, I hate myself for not thinking of that. It would be a wonderful addition to the Empeg when in it's dock.

Unfortunately, my Mustang is in a ba-jillion pieces right now. I'm doing a variety of upgrades (including the dynamat above) and won't even get the chance to drive it before I go back to Paris on Tuesday. I'll get the guys over at VMF to record one of their cars for you and though. I'll need a fix after all this.

I'd probably track down some sort of door pods - they would require the least amount of cutting, bending and installing. Certainly someone makes something to get some 5 1/4 or 6 1/2 speakers up front, probably even separates for better sound.

A single 10" sub would probably suit your needs - or even a very nice set of 6x9's *could* do it with a good amp. If you are starting from scratch, a 12" is the best all around sub for a single - in case you want to go louder.

I'm running a 20x4 and a 30x2 in a jeep wrangler and the system is plenty loud. The only issue I have is that my 8" sub can't handle too much bass at too high a volume. 40 or 50 watts should *easily* be plenty - in my opinion. Having too much power isn't a problem, it helps keep the system clean at higher volumes, but it does increase the mounting size of the amp and the costs. Listen to some setups in the store to get an idea of the relative volumes.

Personally, I like high current amps....one or two amps that you can run your whole system on. I've got an Xtant 604x with the rear channels bridged to power the subs (electronic crossover built into amp) and it sounds great.

In my M3, I didn't want to sacrifice any trunk space so I put some JL audio free-airs (8IB4 Stealthboxes) in the rear deck as the subs, and left the front sound stage to my a/d/s separates. I hate having "fill" from the back because it sounds a little un-natural, however there is some music now that is designed for dolby type setups (not sure if the Empeg can emulate this).

Anyhow, stick with the basics and don't skimp on interconnects. You may need to apply a dynamat type material to some panels to lower the resonance and make sure to route all wires to minimize noise. I'm sure you know this already.

Those Brax amps are very nice, but you may not be able to tell the difference between a Brax and an Xtant or similar quality amp when moving down the road given that the Mustang doesn't have Lexus like sound deadening.

Good luck!
Wes

Thanks for the advice. Enough people have told me to listen to the setup in the store that I'm backing off the Helix stuff. It was too difficult to find a distributor in France or the US, let alone to get someone to let me listen to them. I was figuring a 10" sub would be sufficient and was leaning towards a self powered unit.

The door pods are difficult though. There's no place in the door or kick panels so I'm not sure what I'm going to wind up doing there.

Thanks, the dynamat is in and the speaker and power wires have been run on separate sides of the car. I'll keep in mind the interconnects.

I'll have to wait to see if the dynamat really made a difference as the car's eviscerated on jack stands right now. You may very well be right on the inability to tell difference between a higher end and mid range amp in the Mustang. The guys over at the mustang forum have seen very mixed results on reducing the noise in these cars.

zapco amp and some diamond audio speakers would sound very clean.

Mp3's as requested:

390 Burnout

351 Idle

Damn, now I want an old Mustang too!

An Empeg and a Mustang = no free time + no free money but you only go around once....

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