Where would the best place to buy new quiet fans for my computer? I am looking for cheaper ones, but as quiet as possible...are there other things to do to my computer to make it more quiet?

There are web sites which cater specifically to building quiet PCs. They sell things like quiet fans and power supplies. I forget the URLs at the moment. Anyone? edit: start with www.quietpc.com ...

I want to figure out how to make a PC that's more like a car amplifier: Huge passive heat sink on the outside. No fans, just a silent brick.

are there other things to do to my computer to make it more quiet?

Sell it and buy a Dell. I don't know what voodoo they use to get their machines so quiet.

Seriously, I bought a bunch of stuff from QuietPC and it worked great. I also took the fan off my Radeon card leaving just the heatsink behind. That thing was responsible for most of my computer noise.

All I know is that my old Dell has this giant exhaust-like thing over the CPU. That's probably where the majority of the quietness comes from.

I agree, those things are insanely quiet.

Sell it and buy a Dell. I don't know what voodoo they use to get their machines so quiet.

On mine at least, they designed it so that there was no CPU fan. The air from the power supply draws right past the CPU heat sink. This is with one of their pizza-box desktop models. Of course, this box has no AGP slot and uses crappy on-motherboard video. And has no space for extra hard disks, and no cooling for the single hard disk it does have.

I bet it's not as quiet as my new Linux server...

http://www.mini-itx.com/store/default.asp?c=11

Quarter of a Gb of RAM, 120Gb of disk, 500Mhz CPU and no fans at all. It's amazing what you can get for $400 nowadays.

Bizarrely it is actually the fastest PC I own and it's just going to be sitting in a friends office acting as my off-site backup space (and backup DNS/MX), silly.

I have a similar Win2K server. 533MHz fanless VIA Eden but only 256MB of ram and 80GB drive.

Using it as a desktop PC is not fast at all, but for everything else it's tits. Quiet as hell too.

256MB of ram

Which is very similar to the quarter of a Gb in mine

Using it as a desktop PC is not fast at all

I installed WinXP on it to see how it performed as a desktop machine and I was quite impressed. Definitely faster than the rest of my client machines (PII300 and PII366).

I think they missed a trick by only putting a single network socket on the motherboard. They would make great routers, with a small CF card to boot Linux/BSD from. I guess you can still do it by adding a PCI card, not as neat though.

I notice the TV out sucks on them. Is there any graphics card with a quality s-video signal, or do the people that say they get a decent output simply have low standards ? (like the people who can't notice the <75Hz flicker on a monitor)

I think this:

http://www.mini-itx.com/store/hush.asp

might be my next desktop machine...

Which is very similar to the quarter of a Gb in mine

LOL

"Ten cents each, but special for you, ten for a dollar."

I've put a lot of thought (and money) onto this in the past year.

I finally ended up with a watercooled setup. My system now only has three fans : one in the PSU, one on the front of the case (to let the air in) and one on the back of the case attached to the radiator to let the air out and cool the radiator.

I modded my case so that 120mm fans would fit on the front and back of the case. I used Vantec stealth fans for this (panasonic Panaflo fans would've been my second choice). By running both fans at 5v instead of 12v they are silent.

The loudest component in my case is still my harddisk, although I'm using a Maxtor 200gig now with has an FDB motor. I would have preferred to use Seagate (because those ones are the quietest around), but I needed at least 200gig of diskspace @ 7200rpm and Seagate simply doesn't make such a disk (yet).

I'm very pleased with my setup. The watercooling rig is *very* quiet. I'm only able to hear it if I'm really trying to and even then the ambient noise in my room most of the time overwhealms it. (expecially if the window is open).

Overclocking is a dream. I can easily run my P4 2.4Ghz @ 3.0+Ghz and the system is rock-stable. When if I do this the CPU temperature doesn't rise more than 2°C. (normally the CPU temp is 34-35°C, well within the specs) .

I could post some pics if you would like to see it.

Some advice to get your system really quiet if you don't want to go the watercooling route :

1) Get rid of as many fans in your system as you can. Replace the ones that you simply can't get rid of for overheating purposes by silent fans and run those at 5v instead of 12v.
e.g. replace your CPU fan with a Zalman CNPS(Al)Cu and replace the fan on your video card with a Zalman ZM80-A-HP.
Casefans should be avoided, but if you still want them choose 120mm fans (if you can make them fit) and -again- run them at 5v. 120mm fans turn slower but, because they're bigger, move the same amount of air.

2) Get a quiet PSU. A model like the Zalman ZM300A-APF, the Seasonic SS-300, the Verax F300PPFC-80KP or the SIlenX 400watt.

3) Very important : choose a quiet harddisk. Since solid state harddisks are stil much too expensive and not an option, the best you can get is a harddisk with an FDB motor. The Seagate Barracuda IV is still the quietest (but getting a bit old now), the Barracuda V is only slightly louder. The IBM 180GXP is a close third but many people don't want to burn their hands on an IBM drive again after the 75GXP debacle. The Maxtor comes fourth and then Samsung. WD is, noise-wise, a big no-no. I myself am really curious when WD will introduce their first FDB drive because I really like the their special edition series.

4) DON'T invest any money in those acoustic damping material kits because it is my experience that they don't do much good.

I guess I read too fast. Could have sworn that said half a gig. Oh well... no one will believe me anyway.

Mind if I ask you, Andy, what the "Loves Terry Jacks" is all about?

It's Tony's way at getting back at me for posting the entire lyrics for "Seasons in the Sun" in the "worst song ever" thread...

http://empeg.comms.net/php/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=offtopic&Number=157314

Ah, yes, I forgot that was you

Yeah, I did ask for it...

Have you checked out the hush systems.
Link

They are the concept you are talking about but they are only a via C3 cpu. I would like to see something like this with a P4.

Because then it wouldn't be translucent green

but they are only a via C3 cpu. I would like to see something like this with a P4.

Agreed. With Doom3 coming out, I need the fastest CPU and the fastest video card possible. Those are really interesting PC designs, though, that's the sort of thing I was talking about.

I know it would be within reason to be able to design a motherboard and case which couild take standard components (CPU and AGP video cards) and yet be able to get large heat sinks outside the casing for both. It would require a radically different mobo design, but it could be done.

Wait. I'm looking at the interior photo of those hush PC's, and I don't see the CPU up against those heat sinks on the side. In fact, those heat sinks look like cosmetic decoration to me because they're not connected to anything inside the case. That's NOT what I was talking about...

Yeah I wouldn't get one too slow but the design is neat.

I thought the block over the cpu was hitting the large heat sink on the right side.

Wait. I'm looking at the interior photo of those hush PC's, and I don't see the CPU up against those heat sinks on the side. In fact, those heat sinks look like cosmetic decoration to me because they're not connected to anything inside the case.

They aren't purely for decoration. If you look again you will see that the CPU is covered with a shiny bit of metal and that bit of metal is connected to the right heat sink by some funky new heat pipe. On the other side the HD carrier is connected directly to the heat sink on the left.

This wouldn't work with a P4 I don't think though, these EPIA processors really don't generate much heat (but then they are lots slower than the P4s).

here is a better picture
http://img.hexus.net/hush/hush08.jpg

sure...if you want to post some photos that would be great...thanks

I know somebody who's bought one and it's actually really nicely made. They're quite pricey but I'm sure that's mainly due to the custom casing.
As you said the speed isn't too brilliant compared to a mainstream processor but that's the price you pay for having a fanless CPU. The PSU is totally silent but it's only 55W.

- Trevor

I want to figure out how to make a PC that's more like a car amplifier: Huge passive heat sink on the outside. No fans, just a silent brick.

Deltatronic does just that. Their Silentium! uses a passive PSU and a heatpipe + convector system to cool the CPU and GPU. According to description one of the side walls of the case has cooling rips. HDD Cage. Also available as a kit. They claim it works for Pentium4s up to 3,06 GHz and probably even future CPUs .

Now you're talking.

That "heat pipe" thing to the CPU doesn't give me a lot of confidence though. Anyone have any information on how that works or how well it works?

Every so often whenever I hear about cooling (or heating for that matter) problems relating to space one mans name comes to mind from my uni days, "Peltier", or more specifically "Peltier Effect".

Any of you gus looked into this as a viable form of silent, space saving cooling?, seems tailor made for CPU's et al.

I had a quick search and you can pick up this nifty kit for $14.50 @ http://kitsrus.com

Peltier Module Kit 66
We are selling one type of module 4cm x 4cm, (1.6" x 1.6") with 127 p-n couples. When current passes through two different conductors, heat is produced in one and absorbed in the other. Peltier first described this in 1834. Modern semiconductor materials can make p-n junctions which produce large temperature differences. This 4cm x 4cm x 4mm thick module contains 127 p-n junctions connected electrically in series but thermally in parallel.
Maximum temperature difference = 59 deg C at 30 deg C ambient with no heat load.
Maximum ratings = 13.5V, 4.4A, 36W. Production code TEC1-12704.

Sounds good so far except that you still gotta shift that heat with a suitable heat sink otherwise the device will fry.

Still may be worth a bit of research and a play for those with too much free time (can't be bothered with all that heat dynamics stuff anymore.... shudders in memory of REALLY long and pointless equations......)

Cheers, Sim

My problem with peltier coolers and water coolers is that I don't want to have to deal with condensation/moisture. I want a system that silently and passively radiates the heat. I know that it could be done with a large enough heat sink and a proper mobo/case design.

Yeh, I think you can over complicate things, what's wrong with nice LARGE lump of metal.

Cheap, effective, will never break, the benefits are endless.

Oooh, almost forgot..... and its greatest asset is that it stops the B'tards nicking your stuff (as long as it's well bolted on of course).

Anyone have any information on how that works or how well it works?

I don't know anything specific about above heatpipe, but heatpipes in general consist of three components: container, working fluid inside the container and a capillary structure. Different materials are used for different applications. It's a thermodynamic cycle that involves the liquid entering a vapor state at the input end and condensing at the output end. Here is an animation. It works pretty well with a thermal conductivity many thousands of times that of copper.

Sounds good so far except that you still gotta shift that heat with a suitable heat sink otherwise the device will fry.

Correct. The only right way to do this is in combination with a water cooled setup.

BUT...Though the idea of peltier cooling is nice, I really don't like it.
This is because most of the times, peltier cooling is not worth the effort. You've got to use a really powerful peltier to really make a difference in temperature. (a difference of 2-3 degrees is not worth it IMO)
But, this has so many downsides that I really don't know why anybody would consider it.

1) biggest downside : peltier elements really DRAIN power. I mean REALLY drain a lot of juice. In practice, you'll always end up having to put a secondary PSU into your PC, solely for the purpose of powering that peltier.

It's not uncommon that one Peltier element alone will drain a lot more power than any other device in the PC!

2) not every PSU is a good choice. Most peltiers require AT LEAST a PSU that's rated at 16 ampères, some even need 24 ampères. Those PSU's don't come cheap.

3) The heat effciency for a peltier is really low : only 5-8%. Al the other energy is just lost. That's why it drains that much power.

In practice you'll need a pretty hefty peltier to reach temperatures below 10 °C.

Conclusion : it's not really worth it. If you really want to try die-hard cooling, you'l have to consider phase-change cooling. Great solutions in that area are Vapochill and Prometeia cases. (basically putting a mini fridge in your PC)

I've also added a pic of my watercooling setup when I was bleeding it. At this point it hasn't been built in to the case yet. (a safety period of 24hrs at least is needed to check for leaks) . On the picture you can see the pump with reservoir, the CPU block, the VGA block and the radiator. The bottle next to the circuit is a bottle of demineralised water.