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#160285 - 25/07/2003 15:41 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: booey]
DLF
addict

Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
Oh, now you dragging video into the equation? Then hold out for the HDD400, Philips upcoming video version of its 15GB HDD100 audio jukebox.
_________________________
-- DLF

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#160286 - 25/07/2003 15:43 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: DLF]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31374
Loc: Seattle, WA
I'd give anything to know what Apple's sales figures have been for the 15GB & 30GB iPods, as compared to the $299 10GB model w/o the dock.
Good point! I wonder if that info is publicly available somewhere?
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#160287 - 25/07/2003 15:44 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: PeterDLai]
DLF
addict

Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
Did notice the MuVo NX, which looks like a pretty [PunAlert] flashy [/PunAlert] upgrade to their mass-storage player.
_________________________
-- DLF

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#160288 - 25/07/2003 16:45 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: PeterDLai]
GO_MINI
new poster

Registered: 10/06/2003
Posts: 14
I want to play around with a Karma.

Yours is available. Go out and do something really good, or really stupid, and then just wait for the result.
_________________________
-- Terry K -- 03 DS/W MCS

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#160289 - 25/07/2003 19:28 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: tfabris]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Of people at work with new players (3 or 4 that I know of), no one has bought a 10GB. Only 15 and 30. I suspect they're all selling well.

My take on the other units mentioned here:

RCA - the thing is HUGE. It's RCA. The one bad review on Amazon likely tells the whole story. Negatory on this product. It also doesn't mention anything about video on any of the amazon specs.

Philips - pictures? No mention of video for this "multi-media" device. Too expensive for such low storage 15GB is next to useless for "multimedia" when music-only products like the iPod are selling with 30GB.

Archos - oh boy. Unless they pull a rabbit out of you know where.... Serious quality concerns with older products.

So what happened to all the other PVP devices? Including the one announced by SonicBlue? Did that stay with Rio after the buy?

The Karma must be substantially cheaper than the iPod to compete well. But not too low priced that it seems "cheap" Apple will not drop the price on their iPods when such a device comes out. They can *always* command a higher price than anyone else and will continue to do so because that price is part of their image. They must maintain a certain value associated with their products. There's still plenty of market for a music-only solution especially in these form factors.

I do want to see a palm-sized multi-media device with an attractive price and decent storage size, even if it's something dumb enough to play only video and music files as opposed to a device with full computer capabilities in a hand-held form-factor. But such a device has to allow for easy upgrades if it hopes to succeed. If it doesn't play DivX and a number of variants then it won't be nearly as attractive. It would be a great way to carry around programming recorded with PVRs such as the All-in-Wonder, etc.. Or of course ripped DVDs (your own of course).

Bruno
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#160290 - 26/07/2003 10:06 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: hybrid8]
rob
carpal tunnel

Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5328
Loc: Cambridge UK
Apple will not drop the price on their iPods when such a device comes out. They can *always* command a higher price than anyone else and will continue to do so because that price is part of their image

You must be kidding! Their margins must be extremely slim, at least on the 10GB model. I imagine they only make money because they sell a large amount of product direct via Apple stores and their web store. Of course their volume is also huge.


Rob

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#160291 - 26/07/2003 11:14 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: rob]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Rob, I don't know what their margins are, but I can tell you that with everything else, Apple does not do low margins. I suspect they're building the iPods a lot cheaper than most people assume.

In any case, if their margins are indeed low, then there's another reason to back my claim that they will not drop their prices. I defnitely prefer what the Karma offers over the iPod, however once Apple establishes a market it's a tough proposition for anyone to come along and scoop them. Just forget about the Newton though.

Just imagine for a second someone wanting to come along and oust eBay. I think that's an extreme example, but along the same lines. And for the record, I don't even think Microsoft could take down the eBay machine, regardless of how much they spent.

Bruno
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#160292 - 26/07/2003 14:11 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: rob]
DLF
addict

Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
I agree on the 10GB model. I think Apple's using the classic "loss leader" marketing technique; lure 'em with the sub-$300 model and then sell 'em on the benefits of 50% more "room to grow" and that handy dock. And Bruno's coworkers notwithstanding, when I go to my local Best Buy and CompUSA, they're always sold out of 10GB iPods....

BTW, I'm really rooting for the new (Denon & Marantz) Rios to be the iPods of the non-Mac world.
_________________________
-- DLF

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#160293 - 26/07/2003 16:23 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: DLF]
time
enthusiast

Registered: 20/11/2000
Posts: 276
Loc: Pacific Northwest
One would assume it will support music-synchronized animations like the car unit?

While these would be slick eye candy, they would most definitely come at the price of battery life, which in my HD-based-portable experience (the Riot mostly) is the premium commodity--even over disk space. My usage has the player in my pocket (not looking at fancy graphics) and hoping the tunes keep playing until I get to my next charging opportunity.

Here's hoping they crush the ipods!
- Tim

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#160294 - 27/07/2003 01:36 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: time]
johnmcd3
enthusiast

Registered: 19/04/2001
Posts: 369
Loc: Seattle, WA (formerly Houston,...
Here's hoping they crush the ipods!
An excellent toast!
_________________________
1998 BMW ///M3 30 GB Mk2a, Tuner, and 10 GB backup

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#160295 - 27/07/2003 23:54 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: rob]
oliver
addict

Registered: 02/04/2002
Posts: 691
I just had a good idea, at least I think so. I'm sure you guys have already thought of it, but I figured I would still say something.

Will Denon offer a per-order page, for empeg-owners to get on a list, so we could really be one of the first mass groups to get our hands on them? By "per-order" I mean, just a que until you guys are done polishing up the UI, and squashing any remaining bugs. Iím even willing to pay for the unit right now, and just have it show up on my doorstep within say the next 6-8 weeks

I think it may, I hope, be some decent numbers for you guys to get another early insight in how many of your current customers, and the few people that have created accounts on the bbs just because of the hype of this product, would be willing to spend another $400+ to bring their music collection everywhere, at all times, while being on pretty much every waking moment of every day. Heck, maybe even while you sleep for some people.

Which brings me to my last idea, which I have mentioned before, I would love a lifetime counter. Which could tell me the crazy total number of time my empeg device has had power for. It would even be cooler if it would go into more detail, and list how many songs total played also.
_________________________
Oliver mk1 30gb: 129 | mk2a 30gb: 040104126

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#160296 - 28/07/2003 22:19 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: oliver]
PeterDLai
journeyman

Registered: 04/07/2003
Posts: 57
Loc: San Diego, CA, USA
Pre-ordering sounds like a cool idea, but only if they are sure of the date that they're going to release. I'm going to get sick of waiting after a pre-order not knowing how long it's going to take.
_________________________
Peter D. Lai

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#160297 - 29/07/2003 00:23 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: PeterDLai]
PeterDLai
journeyman

Registered: 04/07/2003
Posts: 57
Loc: San Diego, CA, USA
By the way, is it possible to post more eye candy of the Karma?

I've drooled all over all the current ones already. Perhaps some nice angle shots of her nice body and such? Some highlights of upcoming features? I don't know, I just want to see more pictures of her.
_________________________
Peter D. Lai

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#160298 - 29/07/2003 07:41 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: PeterDLai]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
I've drooled all over all the current ones already. Perhaps some nice angle shots of her nice body and such? Some highlights of upcoming features? I don't know, I just want to see more pictures of her.
It's really funny you phrase it like that, because I noticed this weekend that the Karma is shown in a recent issue of Playboy magazine. I am not kidding about this. It's in one of their sections where they review gadgets and stuff. Sadly I think it was just a straight-on frontal view like the ones Rob has provided us with, and there were no details beyond what we already know.

And no, I normally don't read the articles, but I was trying to flip to one of the pictorials and the beauty and splendor of the Karma drew me in.
_________________________
- Tony C
my empeg stuff

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#160299 - 29/07/2003 08:26 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: tonyc]
JeffS
carpal tunnel

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
I noticed this weekend that the Karma is shown in a recent issue of Playboy magazine . . . And no, I normally don't read the articles, but I was trying to flip to one of the pictorials and the beauty and splendor of the Karma drew me in.
That should earn you at least a few geek points.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.

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#160300 - 29/07/2003 09:31 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: JeffS]
Ezekiel
pooh-bah

Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
Yes, but they're cancelled out by the machismo points of having a copy of Playboy to begin with.
-Zeke
_________________________
WWFSMD?

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#160301 - 29/07/2003 13:14 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: PeterDLai]
PeterDLai
journeyman

Registered: 04/07/2003
Posts: 57
Loc: San Diego, CA, USA
Does anyone have a scan of the advertisement? I've seen the picture from the advertisements (it's online) but I have not seen the actual entire advertisement.
_________________________
Peter D. Lai

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#160302 - 29/07/2003 14:28 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: PeterDLai]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
How about a picture of someone with one in their hand?

Bruno
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#160303 - 29/07/2003 15:24 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: hybrid8]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31374
Loc: Seattle, WA
How about a picture of someone with one in their hand?
Well, that could be a problem, depending on who's holding it.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#160304 - 29/07/2003 16:37 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: tfabris]
Taym
pooh-bah

Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2476
Loc: Roma, Italy
Tony, I am having problems in viewing anything on http://www.geekhackfilk.com/... I get "the page cannot be displayed " 3 out of 4 times, and it is anyway very slow. Any problem with your ISP? Just curious, and hoping this helps other people who are trying to see all the pics of the euromeet 2003...
_________________________
= Taym =
MK2a #040103216 * 100Gb *All/Colors* Radio * 3.0a11 * Hijack = taympeg

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#160305 - 29/07/2003 16:42 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: Taym]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31374
Loc: Seattle, WA
I've not had any trouble all day. Do some traceroutes and see if some of them are dying at a certain routing point.

The administrator of that server is Ricin from the BBS here, so perhaps he can chime in.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#160306 - 29/07/2003 16:50 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: tfabris]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
I can't even resolve www.geekhackfilk.com. I thought it might be some problem in a transatlantic link but it also doesn't work on our colocated server in the US.

Your two DNS servers are listed as ns1.pbp.net and ns1.pbp.net. They both don't respond for some reason?

ns1.pbp.net:
22 dsl081-049-190.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net (64.81.49.190) 83.703 ms 84.701 ms 83.034 ms
23 * * *

ns2.pbp.net
9 209-101-80-2.lad-c000.cust.gw.epoch.net (209.101.80.2) 68.474 ms 69.121 ms 68.481 ms
10 * * *

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#160307 - 29/07/2003 17:03 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: tman]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
dig geekhackfilk.com

; <<>> DiG 9.1.1 <<>> geekhackfilk.com
;; global options: printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 25316
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 2, ADDITIONAL: 2

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;geekhackfilk.com. IN A

;; ANSWER SECTION:
geekhackfilk.com. 81802 IN A 66.92.222.44

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
geekhackfilk.com. 168202 IN NS ns1.pbp.net.
geekhackfilk.com. 168202 IN NS ns2.pbp.net.

;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
ns1.pbp.net. 76346 IN A 66.92.222.35
ns2.pbp.net. 76346 IN A 66.81.103.69

;; Query time: 15 msec
;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1)
;; WHEN: Tue Jul 29 19:51:40 2003
;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 125


No problems resolving...

telnet geekhackfilk.com 80
Trying 66.92.222.44...
Connected to geekhackfilk.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
GET /gallery/ HTTP/1.1
Host: geekhackfilk.com

HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:02:10 GMT
Server: Apache/1.3.27 (Unix) (Gentoo/Linux)
Set-Cookie: PHPSESSID=822ab1ca2080a5f20ecd6c5500b3be65; path=/
Expires: Thu, 19 Nov 1981 08:52:00 GMT
Cache-Control: no-store, no-cache, must-revalidate, post-check=0, pre-check=0
Pragma: no-cache
Transfer-Encoding: chunked
Content-Type: text/html

210c
<html>
<head>
<title>Tony's Photo Galleries</title>
<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="http://www.geekhackfilk.com/gallery/css/embedded_style.css.default">
<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="http://www.geekhackfilk.com/gallery/css/standalone_style.css.default"> </head>
<body>

<table width=100% border=0>
<tr>
<td>
<span class="head">
Tony's Photo Galleries </span>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top">

<table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0>
<tr><form action="http://www.geekhackfilk.com/gallery/search.php" >
<input type=hidden name="" value="">
<td valign="middle" align="right">
<span class="admin"> Search: </span>
<input style="font-size=10px;" type="text" name="searchstring" value="" size="25">
</td>
</form>
</tr>
<tr><td height=2><img src=http://www.geekhackfilk.com/gallery/images/pixel_trans.gif></td></tr></table>
<!-- admin section begin -->
...
...
...


All looks good from comcast.net
_________________________
Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962 sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.

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#160308 - 29/07/2003 17:14 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: genixia]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Hmm. Seems to work now. I couldn't connect at all to ns?.pbp.net earlier.

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#160309 - 29/07/2003 18:12 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: tman]
ricin
veteran

Registered: 19/06/2000
Posts: 1495
Loc: US: CA
ns1 is pingable, but won't show up in the traceroute.

There haven't been any problems with either ns today.
_________________________
Donato
MkII/080000565
MkIIa/010101253
ricin.us

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#160310 - 29/07/2003 18:17 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: ricin]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Yeah. I noticed that you can't do a traceroute to them once they started working again for me.
It would just time out and not give me any response. Very strange. It's still working as well.

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#160311 - 29/07/2003 20:00 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: tman]
bootsy
enthusiast

Registered: 17/08/2000
Posts: 334
Loc: Seattle, WA. USA
I can't see it from work... and we don't block anything.

Hmmm... Odd, I can see it from my home machine. I don't know what that means, but I thought I'd let you know.
_________________________
Brian H. Johnson
MK2 36GB Blue, currently on life support
"RIP RCR..."

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#160312 - 29/07/2003 21:59 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: bootsy]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31374
Loc: Seattle, WA
It's a fairly new domain name. Perhaps some domain name servers are slow to propogate?

Either that, or it's the internet gnomes at work again.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#160313 - 29/07/2003 22:13 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: tfabris]
PeterDLai
journeyman

Registered: 04/07/2003
Posts: 57
Loc: San Diego, CA, USA
If you give one to me I have normal sized hands, I'll take pictures! AHH GIVE ME ONE NOW!

Hmm the models that you guys are testing (at least from the previously posted pictures) say "Made in Malaysia". Any possibility I could go to a factory in Malaysia and get my hands on one?
_________________________
Peter D. Lai

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#160314 - 31/07/2003 09:04 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: PeterDLai]
altman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3456
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
No, because I'm there at the moment and will procure a big stick to keep bounty hunters away

Hugo (yawn, jetlag, etc)

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