(Note, subject line of this thread must be spoken in the style of Master Blaster in Beyond Thunderdome.)

Paul pointed out that both the 20 and 40 are listed here...

http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/rioaudio/compare.html

So here's what I want to know from everyone... How do folks feel about the pricing, based on the specs given on that page?

I wanna know why they're using red buttons on the device photos on that page..

How do folks feel about the pricing

The pricing is pretty competitive and reasonable, and I'm sure the price will start falling in due time. The biggest disappointment for me is the paltry 90 day limited warranty. Yeah, I know that's becoming the norm these days, but for a portable device that costs so much, I was hoping for a 1yr warranty. I'm probably not going to be an early adopter this time, at least until I read some reviews from people here and get an idea of how durable/reliable these things are.

I think the pricing is probably reasonable, though I don't have the cash right now to make it happen. And I'm biased enough that I wouldn't even look at a different brand of mp3 player now that this is coming out. It's either Rio or nothing, which is probably not the attitude most consumers are going to take. But at least my wife agrees. I let her borrow my empeg for a week (I know, can you believe it? A week with NO EMPEG. She's still recovering from major back surgery, so she pretty much gets whatever she wants) and now she wants a Karma so bad she can't stop talking about it. So we'll probably get a 40 gig at some point when cashflow is a bit better.

Two questions I have though:

1. Will we ever be able to sync our Empegs with the Karma so when I do get my wife one it will be easy to keep them both up to date? (I assume/hope that someday the Karma will get nested playlists, otherwise this couldn't ever happen)

2. My wife really wants a docking station for her car if she gets an mp3 player. In fact she specifically told me to post here and say so. She wants the "cuteness" (i.e. small) and portability of the Karma with the ability to play music everywhere like the Emepg has. So what's the likelyhood of this ever happening? I figure slim to none, but this would probably be the "killer app" for my family to buy one. Right now the Empeg is installed in my car, not hers, and her car is the one we use for long trips.

I wanna know why they're using red buttons on the device photos on that page..

'cause that's what the final plastic will have. The photos are accurate.

Greetings!

That and everyone likes to bush big red buttons. It is kind of like blue LEDs. It is just human nature...

Hey! The 40GB is listed as 0.2 inches thicker!!! Strange!

1. Will we ever be able to sync our Empegs with the Karma so when I do get my wife one it will be easy to keep them both up to date? (I assume/hope that someday the Karma will get nested playlists, otherwise this couldn't ever happen)

Aye, there's the rub. None of the other products have hierarchical playlists and therefore you can't get the empeg in synch with them.

I don't know if it will ever happen. I was hoping for something like this for the Rio Central and it hasn't happened. I recently re-did my whole collection, and I still have to keep things carefully organized, by hand, between the PC, the Central, the Empeg, and <whatever else I have>.

Does that mean it's now officially ok to link to images leaked here - such as the Karma/iPod comparison pic?

Aye, there's the rub. None of the other products have hierarchical playlists and therefore you can't get the empeg in synch with them.

I think that could be solved by adding soup views to the empeg car player. Then for Karma -> empeg syncs, you'd have the files in soup views, and could add them to playlists later at your leisure. For empeg -> Karma syncs, you just wouldn't get your playlists transferred over, the songs could still go. There are probably technical obstacles to this, and also more conventional obstacles like the Cambridge team being very busy with real work... But I don't see why it couldn't be done.

Your statement assumes that the only reason for heirarchical playlists is so that you can do artist/album trees. I use heirarchical playlists for other reasons than to make artist/album trees.

Your statement assumes that the only reason for heirarchical playlists is so that you can do artist/album trees. I use heirarchical playlists for other reasons than to make artist/album trees.

No, it doesn't assume that at all -- it only assumes that for most people, being able to sync with a Karma and then doing your playlists manually would be preferable to having no way to sync between them at all.

Ah, gotcha.

For me, I don't care about synching the files. That's a "drag them all onto the player and walk away" thing. The part that I care about is the careful creation of playlists. That's the time-consuming part.

I think the pricing is right on the edge. Anything less than $400, and it would have been a "cheap ipod alternative". Unfortunatly, $400 still leaves it in the expensive unnecessary device category, and $100 more than the cheapest iPod. Having had the chance to see one and play wth it a bit, I know if I'm "investing" any money in a portable player, it'll be a Karma. At $400, I'm going to have to wait untill I find a good deal on it, which will probably take a couple months at the least.

Matthew

and $100 more than the cheapest iPod.

Or, depending on how you look at it, the same price as the mid-level iPod but with more capacity...

You get an extra 5GB for the same price, or an extra 10GB for the same price with the high end unit. We simply have no equivalent of the low end iPod (i.e. very small disk, no dock etc).

Rob

Also, typically a loss-leader for bringing in sales of other devices (or cars, if you like the bug)...

Keep in mind you are more likely to find a deal on the Karma compaired to the iPod. Apple is usually pretty strict about pricing on there devices, while Rio is just another typical company who sets a suggested retail price.

None of the other products have hierarchical playlists and therefore you can't get the empeg in synch with them.

I don't know if it will ever happen. I was hoping for something like this for the Rio Central and it hasn't happened.

But will the Karma sync with the Rio Central?

Question on batteries on the Karma. I noticed it's a built in battery... What if it starts to degrade over time? Any way for users to replace batteries, or maybe have a second battery to swap in?

Me Too !

What if it starts to degrade over time? Any way for users to replace batteries, or maybe have a second battery to swap in?

I don't know if it's the kind of battery that tends to degrade over time or not.

As far as what's involved in swapping the battery, I have the knowledge to answer the question, but I don't know if that's something I'm allowed to discuss or not. I'm trying to be as careful as I can with not saying stuff that's NDA.

I don't know if it's the kind of battery that tends to degrade over time or not.

Not so much. But I have 3 Li-on batteries for my cell phone and only the newest one lasts me 4+ days. The other two get me through about 2 or 3.

Don't you guys get a standard 1 year warranty on goods like in the UK?

You get an extra 5GB for the same price, or an extra 10GB for the same price with the high end unit. We simply have no equivalent of the low end iPod (i.e. very small disk, no dock etc).

And, as I said before, I'm really impressed the dock comes with both models. All things being equal, walking around with an iPod is still a large status symbol. Geeks want to explain how cool their car stereo is, how it's so much better than any others, and how You Can't Have One because they stopped making them. Normal People want people to see their iPod and go "look, he's got an ipod, he must have disposable income, I think I'll go talk to him". It remains to be seen if the Karma will become a status symbol or not, but gaining that non-geek appeal will be dificult.

As soon as I can get one for $350 taxed and shipped, all be ordering. Oh, I wanted to compliment the rio store for having shipping be a reasonable $6. Quite respectable. Any interesting thing that you can't put a price on is that when I sent my mother to the apple online store to buy an ipod for my sister, she later told me without promting that it was the best online shopping experience she'd had. I'm glad to hear the old estore has been replaced with a new one, and anxious to hear some reports about it.

Matthew

Don't you guys get a standard 1 year warranty on goods like in the UK?

Er, um, no.... By "standard" do you mean it's some sort of law or something? Over here I'm not sure a company has to provide any warranty at all...

Over here I'm not sure a company has to provide any warranty at all...

I think I remember from business class in high school that anything over $10 has to have a 30 day warranty by law.

Hey! The 40GB is listed as 0.2 inches thicker!!! Strange!

Yeah, I only found that out today too. Even the docks are different, which if you ask me is just asking for comedy scenes when the unsuspecting owner visits his mate's house and tries to dock his Karma.

Peter

That's okay, we'll just wait for the Mark Lord brand Karma Docks.

Hey! The 40GB is listed as 0.2 inches thicker

The drive is thicker and we didn't want to burden the 20GB model unnecessarily.

The Beta units that some of you have seen are the thicker 40GB plastics.

Rob

Any goods here have at LEAST a one year manufacturers warranty by law. Soon to be 2 years.

I bought a Sony item from the US a couple of months back and was shocked to see there was no 1 year warranty.