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#176017 - 20/08/2003 10:41 Karma- runs Linux?
siberia37
old hand

Registered: 09/01/2002
Posts: 702
Loc: Tacoma,WA
Maybe this was already answered somewhere but I couldn't find it. Does the Karma run Linux under the hood like the Empeg does? Or is Karma a more strict embedded system with no multi-purpose capabilities- like every other portable player.

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#176018 - 20/08/2003 10:43 Re: Karma- runs Linux? [Re: siberia37]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4157
Loc: Cambridge, England
Maybe this was already answered somewhere but I couldn't find it. Does the Karma run Linux under the hood like the Empeg does? Or is Karma a more strict embedded system with no multi-purpose capabilities- like every other portable player.
Definitely the latter. You're unlikely to find a WMA DRM-capable player that has multi-purpose capabilities.

Peter

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#176019 - 20/08/2003 10:44 Re: Karma- runs Linux? [Re: peter]
siberia37
old hand

Registered: 09/01/2002
Posts: 702
Loc: Tacoma,WA
That's a shame- but expected considered the tigher pricing and design specs for a portable player.

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#176020 - 20/08/2003 10:55 Re: Karma- runs Linux? [Re: peter]
DLF
addict

Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
a WMA DRM-capable player

{May be about to expose my ignorance, but}
so you can transfer to Karma and play the WM9 Series DRM stuff? Or just stuff with the v6/v7 flavor of DRM? Or the player firmware just doesn't care at all?
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-- DLF

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#176021 - 20/08/2003 11:48 Re: Karma- runs Linux? [Re: siberia37]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5844
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
I think they just got fed up making Linux work in a realtime enviroment. The guys did a great job with the empeg, but it's not as if Linux was ever designed to run something like the empeg/Karma. It is a miracle they managed as good a jobs as they did with empeg/Linux.

With the Karma they are using ecos, which was designed from the start to be a realtime OS.
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Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday

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#176022 - 20/08/2003 12:07 Re: Karma- runs Linux? [Re: andy]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
I am not certain it was the real time nature as the embedded systems environment. Don't forget, the empeg is not as power limited as a portable player would be.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#176023 - 20/08/2003 15:07 Re: Karma- runs Linux? [Re: andy]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14244
Loc: Canada
>I think they just got fed up making Linux work in a realtime enviroment.

Actually, I did ask Hugo and Rob about that when I was visiting, and they basically said they'd love to have used Linux, but due to the MS DRM constraints they couldn't open source it. So they had to find a different OS platform to use, and Hugo said he'd really have prefered Linux over that one (for various reasons).

So it's not a lack of Linux capability at all here, just DRM concerns.

Rob & Hugo are welcome to correct me if I've misunderstood any of that.

Cheers

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#176024 - 20/08/2003 15:14 Re: Karma- runs Linux? [Re: mlord]
image
old hand

Registered: 28/04/2002
Posts: 770
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
i dont understand what the problem could be... the player from my understanding is from the same tree as v3 on the empeg, which if i recall correctly, is going to be module based, right? so shouldnt that mean that while the player/kernel/os is open source on the karma, the modules that have DRM could stay closed.

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#176025 - 20/08/2003 15:19 Re: Karma- runs Linux? [Re: image]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31366
Loc: Seattle, WA
Yeah, wouldn't that be nice if MS let you do that.
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Tony Fabris

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#176026 - 20/08/2003 15:25 Re: Karma- runs Linux? [Re: tfabris]
image
old hand

Registered: 28/04/2002
Posts: 770
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
happens all the time, in principle at least. MS hasn't gone ahead and restricted wine/winex use of their dll libraries. No permission required, on the assumption that you really own the license for the windows product.

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#176027 - 20/08/2003 17:41 Re: Karma- runs Linux? [Re: image]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14244
Loc: Canada
I believe there's good concern that someone like me might hack a backdoor into a driver to extract PCM audio samples as DRM content is played back.

Not that audiograbber doesn't already do that on Windows!

Cheers

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#176028 - 21/08/2003 08:32 Re: Karma- runs Linux? [Re: mlord]
rob
carpal tunnel

Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5328
Loc: Cambridge UK
So it's not a lack of Linux capability at all here, just DRM concerns.

Well, that and the fact there's no MMU so speak of!

Rob

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#176029 - 21/08/2003 08:46 Re: Karma- runs Linux? [Re: rob]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14244
Loc: Canada
That's why ucLinux exists!

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#176030 - 21/08/2003 11:28 Re: Karma- runs Linux? [Re: mlord]
julf
veteran

Registered: 01/10/2001
Posts: 1302
Loc: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
That's why ucLinux exists!

I was actually going to ask about ucLinux in Amersfoort. Decided to leave the question until later, over a few drinks. Unfortunately Alzheimers set in...

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