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#182900 - 04/10/2003 22:35 An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Empeg
belezeebub
addict

Registered: 11/01/2001
Posts: 579
Just off the top of my head how much would I have to spend to con one of your Tech-No Gods to Remote the 4 buttons and dial on an empeg and add some sort of video out Even if it is Mono-chrome. Seeing I am Not William Gates III could I afford it ?


HUmm after reading this Post maybe It can be done

http://empeg.comms.net/php/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=empeg_tech&Number=180046&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=


Edited by belezeebub (04/10/2003 22:39)
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#182901 - 04/10/2003 23:30 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: belezeebub]
matthew_k
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
While that post might seen promising, this one seems more promising:

http://empeg.comms.net/php/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=prodject&Number=159611&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&vc=1

Matthew

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#182902 - 05/10/2003 15:03 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: matthew_k]
belezeebub
addict

Registered: 11/01/2001
Posts: 579
By remote the buttons I mean a wired shallow 1/2 Din face with the four buttons and a knob the face plate isn't needed if it has video out put

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#182903 - 05/10/2003 18:48 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: belezeebub]
V99
member

Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 192
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Remote buttons are doable.. I did it with a little joystick that has all 7 empeg actions (up/down/left/right, knob cw/ccw/push) on one stick, but you just need 7 things that act as switches and a way to convert that into a serial signal. I could possibly put something together for you if you want to email me, [email protected]

I think there was someone else who had component video out working, don't see the thread after a quick search though. Displaying over serial to a VFD like I have and foxtrot is working on is also doable.

This is what I've done (the cig lighter knob is the joystick, the other buttons are for garage doors, display power, and 6 software buttons sent to the Empeg to do whatever with; Display software is set to only use 1/4 of the 256x64 VFD right now):


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#182904 - 05/10/2003 19:52 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: V99]
belezeebub
addict

Registered: 11/01/2001
Posts: 579
Whoot half way there now where is that Video out Person
{Looks around)
I could just wait for tony he normally posts the links about 2 seconds after someone tells me about them.\
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______________________________________ Do not meddle in the affairs of Network Administrators, for they are subtle and quick to anger. ______________________________________ Worlds Lamest Wb Site (mine) http://home.comcast.net/~jlipchitz/

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#182905 - 05/10/2003 20:07 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: V99]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
V99... that is... amazing!
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Brad B.

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#182906 - 05/10/2003 20:16 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
belezeebub
addict

Registered: 11/01/2001
Posts: 579
Just need to find a Empeg with a busted VFD and I am 2/3 of the way there,

So did you just use the switch and plug it into the serial connections with a few hacks or did you wire it to the buttons on the front of the unit /

Where did you find the joy stick ??

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#182907 - 06/10/2003 00:30 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: belezeebub]
Waterman981
old hand

Registered: 14/02/2002
Posts: 804
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT
As far as video out, here Tony FAQ'ed someone else with these links:

Link 1

Link2

So the short answer for video out, no. Go with the serial output like V99 and foxtrot_xray.
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-Michael

#040103696 on a shelf
Mk2a - 90 GB - Red - Illuminated buttons

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#182908 - 06/10/2003 03:30 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: belezeebub]
V99
member

Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 192
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
There's lots more info in the VFD thread in Projects, and more pictures here...

The short version is that I have a Basic Stamp that reads inputs from the joystick and buttons on its I/O pins and sends out serial characters to the Empeg.. Some simple software runs on the player to read the commands coming in on the serial and send the appropriate button code to Hijack for it to inject to the Player.

There's a bunch of components on the board to convert the joystick's interface into 7 separate signals, and the rest of the board is a switching power supply to regulate car voltage to +5 for the display and circuitry.

The display is just connected to the serial out of the player, a different app sends drawing commands to replicate the Empeg's bitmap. The display I chose is relatively slow (38.4kbps) so some software optimization (beyond "send whatever pixels have changed") is needed to get it to run fast, but it hasn't really bothered me using it in the current state for a several weeks.

I picked this display because it has 4 Empeg screens worth of pixels (to say run 4 apps at once in separate virtual displays), but there are several different size & resolution choices, all of which are faster or at least the same "speed" (baudrate/pixel count). foxtrot_xray chose the tiny one, I also have a medium sized (a little smaller than the Empeg's IIRC) fast (115.2kbps) 140x32 one around here somewhere. There's other ones too, and maybe LCDs.. any graphic module driven by serial can potentially be used.

The joystick is from Grayhill.. It's neat and perfect for this use, but quite expensive (something like $80, and you have to buy many, or annoy them into selling you a sample).

Regarding the second FAQ link above, at least my software is all userland (and gets starved for a couple seconds whenever the player feels like spinning up the drives... need to do something about that). There's still some software to be improved, but it all basically works at an acceptable level for my daily use right now, so I think I'm well beyond preliminary .

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#182909 - 06/10/2003 04:04 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: V99]
rtundo
addict

Registered: 27/02/2001
Posts: 569
Loc: Albany, NY
Some simple software runs on the player to read the commands coming in on the serial and send the appropriate button code to Hijack for it to inject to the Player.

V99 that's great!

Could you give us more info about the software you created? I'd like to try and adapt it to recognize button pushes from my stock stereo which is converted to serial output using an obd-2 to serial converter.

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#182910 - 06/10/2003 05:05 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: rtundo]
V99
member

Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 192
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Could you give us more info about the software you created?

There's really almost nothing to it. I just open the serial port (you could borrow the serial code from gpsapp) and wait for data, then decide what to inject based on what letter I received. All the button code constants are defined in hijack.h. I wrote the basic stamp code to send capital letters for press and the same letter lowercase for release; If you don't handle presses and releases separately then you can't do long presses. U/D/L/R/K for the 5 fascia buttons, + - for knob rotation, and Z/X/C/V/B/N/M for the 7 (only ended up using 6) 'soft' buttons.

The only problem is that the app runs as just another application, so the Player can take all the CPU time and starve it whenever it wants. This usually happens when it spins up the disks, which is usually you're pushing buttons. Then keypresses get queued up in the serial buffer and when the app gets processor time again the actions all get blasted out. It should be possible to give it the same priority as the Player since the button listener app needs virtually no processor time to check for input every once in a long (to the CPU) while, but I don't know how to go about doing that in a way that doesn't stick it in the kernel.. anybody?

unsigned long buttons[2] = { 2, 0 };


serial_open();
displayFD = open("/dev/display",O_WRONLY);

while(1)
{
got = serial_read(&buf,1);

if ( got > 0 )
{
switch ( buf )
{
case 'U': // Up
buttons[1] = IR_TOP_BUTTON_PRESSED;
break;
case 'u':
buttons[1] = IR_TOP_BUTTON_RELEASED;
break;
...
}

ioctl(displayFD, EMPEG_HIJACK_INJECTBUTTONS, &buttons);
}

usleep(10000);
}

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#182911 - 06/10/2003 05:09 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: V99]
V99
member

Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 192
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Oh, and this doesn't work for bringing up the Hijack menu.. Haven't found a solution to that yet (or really looked...).

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#182912 - 06/10/2003 05:44 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: belezeebub]
rexkp
journeyman

Registered: 31/08/2000
Posts: 88
This might be a suitable joystick here.

Not the same as V99's but small and cheap.

BTW, V99, NICE job!

-Rex.

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#182913 - 06/10/2003 05:51 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: V99]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14472
Loc: Canada
If you write the button codes to /proc/empeg_notify, then they will receive full Hijack processing.. menu and all.

The player sets itself to Real-Time priorirty at startup, which is why it runs and your app doesn't run when things are really busy. You may be able to use strace to see exactly how it accomplishes that.

Cheers

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#182914 - 06/10/2003 09:56 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: mlord]
belezeebub
addict

Registered: 11/01/2001
Posts: 579
I am not a programmer or a electronics (truth be told when I took my electronics courses in school Nixon was still in office) so forgive me if I say something stupid.

Why does it have to be an app is it possible to remove the vfd/face plate and just attach to the same connection points the normal buttons and dial attach to ?
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______________________________________ Do not meddle in the affairs of Network Administrators, for they are subtle and quick to anger. ______________________________________ Worlds Lamest Wb Site (mine) http://home.comcast.net/~jlipchitz/

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#182915 - 06/10/2003 10:02 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: belezeebub]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31563
Loc: Seattle, WA
is it possible to remove the vfd/face plate and just attach to the same connection points the normal buttons and dial attach to ?
Please click here.
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Tony Fabris

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#182916 - 06/10/2003 10:04 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: belezeebub]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
You could do that if you really wanted to... The display board PIC probably wouldn't like you having long wires though.
Also if you botch it and break the display board then it's going to be expensive to fix and nearly impossible to replace.

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#182917 - 06/10/2003 10:04 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: belezeebub]
rtundo
addict

Registered: 27/02/2001
Posts: 569
Loc: Albany, NY

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#182918 - 06/10/2003 10:15 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: rtundo]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31563
Loc: Seattle, WA
The pebble remains, Grasshopper.
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Tony Fabris

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#182919 - 06/10/2003 10:33 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: rexkp]
mtempsch
pooh-bah

Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1996
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
This might be a suitable joystick here.
Not the same as V99's but small and cheap.


While small, nifty and quite useful for another project I have in mind (thank you for the link!), that one only provides the up/down/left/right buttons, while the $80 one also provides knob press and rotary encoder - all in the same package.

/Michael
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/Michael

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#182920 - 06/10/2003 11:29 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Empeg [Re: belezeebub]
belezeebub
addict

Registered: 11/01/2001
Posts: 579
SO in a nut shell what I want can't be done for less then the cost of buying a new SUV ?
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______________________________________ Do not meddle in the affairs of Network Administrators, for they are subtle and quick to anger. ______________________________________ Worlds Lamest Wb Site (mine) http://home.comcast.net/~jlipchitz/

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#182921 - 06/10/2003 12:13 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: belezeebub]
mtempsch
pooh-bah

Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1996
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
Well, IIRC I believe PCA said something about presenting three different ways of doing the video out to the client. The one he implemented was the most expensive, but also best, option. No idea as to on what level the other two options would have landed.

/Michael
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/Michael

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#182922 - 06/10/2003 12:18 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: mtempsch]
rtundo
addict

Registered: 27/02/2001
Posts: 569
Loc: Albany, NY
I also wonder how Hugo made out with his installment of a remote display into his gauge unit?

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#182923 - 06/10/2003 12:30 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Empeg [Re: belezeebub]
matthew_k
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
As was alluded to, it can't be done for less than the price of an SUV if you want it to be contained within the empeg. Buying a tiny pc with video out and having it run VNC to the empeg would be much cheaper, but would take up more room and take a bit more time to boot up.

Matthew

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#182924 - 06/10/2003 12:32 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: tfabris]
rtundo
addict

Registered: 27/02/2001
Posts: 569
Loc: Albany, NY
The pebble remains, Grasshopper

Yes, faqmaster, I am not yet worthy to travel the world alone.

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#182925 - 06/10/2003 15:55 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: rtundo]
Waterman981
old hand

Registered: 14/02/2002
Posts: 804
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT
The pebble was already gone!

This one time even I, a mortal, beat our amazing FAQ Master to the punch!
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-Michael

#040103696 on a shelf
Mk2a - 90 GB - Red - Illuminated buttons

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#182926 - 06/10/2003 17:35 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: Waterman981]
belezeebub
addict

Registered: 11/01/2001
Posts: 579
"As was alluded to, it can't be done for less than the price of an SUV if you want it to be contained within the empeg. Buying a tiny pc with video out and having it run VNC to the empeg would be much cheaper, but would take up more room and take a bit more time to boot up. "

As for this statement I would gladly Pay 500-1000 to get this done Plug parts I don't really care if it fits inside the empeg or not.



HUmmm if I had a Empeg with a broken Screen and NO sled I could use VNC and get the video out from this
http://www.ibuypower.com/product-pc/pocket-epc2.htm
or one of the other Micro_pc I have seen.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3433281919&category=1244

Kind of defeats the purpose Maybe the best laid Plans of Mice and Men can not full in my order.. its just too spendy to add video out to a empeg and if you are going to the trouble of installing a PC you might as well just use the PC in the first Place.

Which Brings us to my next questions anyone got a (shivers at the thoought) a Empeg Like software that runs on MS platform or Redhat Suse I think everyone will agree the empge Player software is much better then Musicmatch or Winamp for ease of use.


Edited by belezeebub (06/10/2003 17:41)
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#182927 - 06/10/2003 18:00 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: tfabris]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
Woohoo! He's back!
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Brad B.

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#182928 - 06/10/2003 19:43 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: matthew_k]
foxtrot_xray
addict

Registered: 03/03/2002
Posts: 687
Loc: Atlanta, Georgia
...And really, guys. I'm almost finished! I won't get into details (new house, trip cross country coming up), I've been way too freakin' busy..

In a nutshell, the (my project) display is powered BY the Empeg (or external PSU), and accepts serial (RS-232) input. No processing is done on the Empeg side (except for what to display) - the VFD accepts straight-forward commands to draw/erase/write to it.

No software's been written for it - I tried, and just don't have the knowledge.

Me.
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#182929 - 06/10/2003 22:08 Re: An Odd wish and a Question for the Gods of Emp [Re: foxtrot_xray]
V99
member

Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 192
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
No software's been written for it - I tried, and just don't have the knowledge.

I can put together something using one of the obvious drawing algorithms and playing tag back and forth with you testing it.. For anything more complicated I would definitely need one to work with.

Kind of defeats the purpose Maybe the best laid Plans of Mice and Men can not full in my order

Are you sure you can't use one of the VFDs? They're available in a wide range of sizes, from bigger than the Empeg's (the one I'm using) to really tiny (the one foxtrot's using).. you could put the tiny one almost anywhere (in your instrument cluster perhaps), it's something like the size of a pack of gum. Something like what I've done can easily be done for < $500.

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