#18325 - 21/09/2000 21:56
Got my Nomad Jukebox...
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enthusiast
Registered: 27/09/1999
Posts: 200
Loc: Berkeley, CA
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Well, I didn't think I'd see it for a while, but my Nomad Jukebox was sitting on my doorstep when I got home tonight.
I've only spent a few minutes with it, but my initial response is mixed. The unit itself is nicely made as consumer plastic goes, and the package is fairly complete. I think they figured out that they had a battery hog on their hands, since it came with not one but two sets of NiMH AA's. The other usual stuff was included, carrying case, power brick, USB cable, headphones. It also came preloaded with about 2G of music, along with audiobooks of Frankestein and Robinson Crusoe. If you had to deal with the PC software before you could play with the thing, you'd probably return it before you heard the first note. More on that later.
The UI on the unit isn't bad, though I don't quite know why they picked the paradigm that they did. You have an active queue and a library. You can go to the library and add tunes, albums, or playlists to the active queue. In the library, you can search by genre, artist, album, or playlist name, but not by title.
It's much slower to move around the menus than the empeg, and it takes a minimum of 25 seconds to boot, longer if the database has to be updated. Shutdown take 8 seconds.
There are warnings about shutting down before connecting or disconnected power or USB, which seems inconvenient. I've ignored the USB warning without any ill effects, I'll take their word for power, though.
It does have the capability to record to disk (44.1/16 WAV), and it looks like it will play file taxi, as there is documentation on moving files back and forth between the PC and the Nomad, and a note that you cannot move MP3 files from the Nomad to the PC. (But you can move other files)
But the PC software fails the most basic test:
You can't load directory structures. This means I have to manually walk the directory structure, copying all the files over to the Nomad. This probably didn't matter much in the days of 64MB players, but with 100 times that capacity, it's an issue. It does, however, automagically build the Artist, Genre, and Album structures based on ID3 tags. The PC sofware also wants to maintain it's own copy of the music library, so there are three views: Nomad, PC Music Library, and My Computer. I can only think that this mess has to do with SDMI, for which the Nomad is "Hardware Ready", whatever that means.
Connectors are as follows: Two stereo 1/8" jacks for Line Out (it has the EAX DSP, so you can do room effects and get 4-channel output, or just configure the rear channels to duplicate the front channels, give two identical line-outs), one for headphones, one for line-in. DC 12V on a coax plug, and a USB 'B' (slave) port.
The form factor is actually slightly smaller than a portable CD player.
All in all, a nice first pass at a "consumer" player. If the next rev of PC software can better cope with the reality of a 6Gig device, this just might be the product that convinces the masses that HD-based players are the answer, and CDR[W] is a waste of time.
It's not an empeg, but it's not >$1k, either.
Anyone have links to "aftermarket" or open-source managment software for Nomads? I think this one uses the same protocol as the flash-based Nomads.
-Zandr
Mk.I #150
Mk.II #39
_________________________
-Zandr
Mk.IIa #010101243 currently getting a 500GB SSD. More spares in the shed.
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#18326 - 30/09/2000 19:15
Re: Got my Nomad Jukebox...
[Re: n6mod]
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addict
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 498
Loc: Virginia, USA
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I just returned my Jukebox today to Best Buy.
There is a lot to like about it and I think it will get better with firmware upgrades. The Creative rep on the Nomad newsgroup (only at news.creative.com) is very responsive and actively solicits suggestions. I found the interface on the unit to be non-intuitive but once I groked it, it was functional. It does a nice job of providing some default organization based on ID3 tags without having to create playlists. The USB transfer was reasonable though not great at 2-3 Mbps.
I agree that the PC software is awful. It's another non-standard, polished chrome UI that doesn't follow conventional UI rules and can't be maximized. I didn't buy a 21" monitor so that I could suffer with tiny little list boxes crammed in 800x600 windows! I also crashed my Win2k box badly multiple times. And I agree that it's inexcusable that it doesn't automatically traverse deep directory structures.
Despite the flaws of the PC software, the unit itself is nice and I might have kept it.... except for it's fatal flaw: it sounds like crap!. I'll tell you my dirty little secret - I bought the Jukebox in the hopes that it would prove to be an adequate MP3 player for my car and I wouldn't have to shell out the big bucks for the Empeg. Obviously, it's far less capable than the Empeg in many ways but I was hoping that for $800 less I could live with it. As soon as I actually hooked it up to my car stereo the answer was obviously no. The little amp that drives it's outputs is just too weak. Maybe it's OK for the junk headphones they include but it sounded horrible in my car. I have a very modest system in my car but it was more than enough to highlight the weakness of the Jukebox's output. The volume was dramatically lower when feeding the Jukebox into the aux input of my head unit vs. the internal CD player. And once I boosted the volume to compensate the weaknesses of it's pitiful little amp were loud and clear. Bass was weak, highs were shrill and the dynamics were lost. It sounded like I was running it through a compressor or listening on a bad FM station. I know that the MP3 I was playing is fine. I encoded it using LAME at a fairly high VBR and I've listened to it on my computer.
This is the first time I'd used the aux input of my head unit so I brought out my portable CD player to compare. I have a Panasonic player that I know has a decent headphone output. It's the only portable player that I've found that can power my good Sennheiser headphones. Anyway, the Panasonic sounded fine when I ran it through my head unit.
It's unfortunate that Creative decided to skimp in this area. I'm guessing one or both of these conditions led to them using such a poor amp.
1. They were struggling to make the magic $499 price point and had to cut corners.
2. They knew that battery life was going to be a big complaint so they tried to minimize power consumption.
Their newsgroup is already full of requests for them to increase the volume level. People seem to be under the illusion that it can be fixed with firmware. (Like they'll just turn the knob to 11.) So far the complaints just seem to be related to headphone volume. I haven't yet read of too many people hooking this thing up to home and car audio systems. I think they are going to be very disappointed when they do so.
It's a nice unit for portability if used with undemanding headphones.
-Dylan
Queue# 15969
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#18327 - 30/09/2000 19:28
Re: Got my Nomad Jukebox...
[Re: Dylan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Does that Nomad Jukebox only have one headphone output? No line-level outs? If so, that's probably the reason- most headphone outputs don't sound good when plugged into line level inputs. Your complaints fall right into line with what I would expect a headphone output to sound like when plugged into a line-input. ___________
Tony Fabris
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#18328 - 01/10/2000 01:49
Re: Got my Nomad Jukebox...
[Re: Dylan]
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enthusiast
Registered: 27/09/1999
Posts: 200
Loc: Berkeley, CA
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I can hear the screams of "traitor" and "infidel" already, but now that there are starting to be a few HD-based MP3 players out there, I think there's a lot that can be learned from discussing the pros and cons of each. (Those of you who are exposed to Product Marketing types in the real world call this Competitive Analysis.)
Anyone with a PJB-100 want to chime in?
I just returned my Jukebox today to Best Buy.
There is a lot to like about it and I think it will get better with firmware upgrades.
I hope so. I'm willing to stick this one out for a while. It's particularly interesting given how stupidly simple it is to upgrade to a larger drive. (given a Linux box and no fear of voiding the warranty, anyway)
The Creative rep on the Nomad newsgroup (only at news.creative.com) is very responsive and actively solicits suggestions.
I didn't know that existed, thanks for pointing it out. I just read through it the newsgroup and found a lot of interesting tidbits. Of course, the #1 complaint is the same as here: No way to either back up the unit or retrieve MP3s. This is even more of a concern with the NJB since it comes half-full of music.
I found the interface on the unit to be non-intuitive but once I groked it, it was functional.
I agree that it had a less-than-gentle learning curve, but for a device that can safely get more user attention than the empeg car, I like the library/queue metaphor.
It does a nice job of providing some default organization based on ID3 tags without having to create playlists.
This is nice, though emplode accomplishes the same thing by being directory aware. Since MP3Rage (Mac) and I assume MP3TagStudio or similar can build directory structures from ID3 tags, that feature's covered already.
I agree that the PC software is awful. It's another non-standard, polished chrome UI that doesn't follow conventional UI rules and can't be maximized.
Oh, it's worse than that. Did you actually hit maximize? The window gets slightly larger and gets some scaling artifacts.
The Mac software doesn't suffer from Polished Chrome Syndrome, but then it doesn't appear to suffer from any features, either. It's a custom version of SoundJam MP that has a single drag/drop window for the upload queue.
And I agree that it's inexcusable that it doesn't automatically traverse deep directory structures.
Which is the one complaint I *didn't* see in the newsgroup. Sigh. One more group to straighten out.
Despite the flaws of the PC software, the unit itself is nice and I might have kept it.... except for it's fatal flaw: it sounds like crap!
I haven't put it through it's paces through anything but the supplied headphones, but I'll do that. I've already resigned myself to buying a Boostaroo for it, mostly because my primary application will be on long airline flights. Maybe the roar of the turbofans will cover the audio quality issue.
It's unfortunate that Creative decided to skimp in this area. I'm guessing one or both of these conditions led to them using such a poor amp.
1. They were struggling to make the magic $499 price point and had to cut corners.
2. They knew that battery life was going to be a big complaint so they tried to minimize power consumption.
I didn't realize it until I saw his name mentioned in the Creative newsgroup, but I know McHugh from a past life. I'll see if I can find out what they were thinking...
Their newsgroup is already full of requests for them to increase the volume level. People seem to be under the illusion that it can be fixed with firmware. (Like they'll just turn the knob to 11.)
Well, it can be fixed in firmware if you don't care about audio quality. I wouldn't put it past them to boost the output level in the DSP, clipping be damned.
It's a nice unit for portability if used with undemanding headphones.
Or, I hope, in a poor listening environment. ;)
-Zandr
Mk.I #150
Mk.II #39
_________________________
-Zandr
Mk.IIa #010101243 currently getting a 500GB SSD. More spares in the shed.
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#18329 - 01/10/2000 01:55
Re: Got my Nomad Jukebox...
[Re: tfabris]
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enthusiast
Registered: 27/09/1999
Posts: 200
Loc: Berkeley, CA
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Does that Nomad Jukebox only have one headphone output? No line-level outs?
Actually, it has two line-outs in addition to the headphone out. The two line outs can either be identical, or used for pseudo-surround courtesy of the "EAX" DSP. (A TMS320-series chip)
If so, that's probably the reason- most headphone outputs don't sound good when plugged into line level inputs. Your complaints fall right into line with what I would expect a headphone output to sound like when plugged into
a line-input.
I'd guess that Dylan used the right output for the job. That said, the DSP UI is byzantine enough that I could see shooting yourself in the foot. I really haven't tried listening to it through a real system. I'll try that in the morning.
The headphone volume complaint is very real. I had the volume set to 18 (of 20) for "normal" listening volume in a quiet office. This clearly won't cut it on an airplane.
-Zandr
Mk.I #150
Mk.II #39
_________________________
-Zandr
Mk.IIa #010101243 currently getting a 500GB SSD. More spares in the shed.
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#18330 - 01/10/2000 05:49
Re: Got my Nomad Jukebox...
[Re: tfabris]
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addict
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 498
Loc: Virginia, USA
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Does that Nomad Jukebox only have one headphone output? No line-level outs?
It does have line level outs for front and rear. They sound exactly like the headphone output at maximum volume.
-Dylan
Queue# 15969
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#18331 - 01/10/2000 06:03
Re: Got my Nomad Jukebox...
[Re: n6mod]
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addict
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 498
Loc: Virginia, USA
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This is nice, though emplode accomplishes the same thing by being directory aware.
Hmmm....I don't own an Empeg yet. I just assumed it would do something like the Jukebox with regards to organization. I'm currently ripping my CD's into a hierarchy that is only one level deep. Artist is a dir and then all of the tracks are underneath that dir with album title, track #, and track name in the name of the file. Should I be creating subdirectories for each album?
Well, it can be fixed in firmware if you don't care about audio quality. I wouldn't put it past them to boost the output level in the DSP, clipping be damned.
Maybe, but activating the DSP in the Jukebox today actually lowers the volume by a couple db. I tried to correct for it's deficiencies by using the EQ but it lowered the output and made the problem worse.
-Dylan
Queue# 15969
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#18332 - 01/10/2000 08:45
Re: Got my Nomad Jukebox...
[Re: Dylan]
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enthusiast
Registered: 27/09/1999
Posts: 200
Loc: Berkeley, CA
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I'm currently ripping my CD's into a hierarchy that is only one level deep. Artist is a dir and then all of the tracks are underneath that dir with album title, track #, and track name in the name of the file. Should I be creating subdirectories for each album?It's up to you. Emplode will replicate whatever directory structure you drag onto it in the playlist structure. I've organized as Artist:Album:Track, but there's plenty of room for individual preference. What _is_ critical is getting good ID3 data in your files. There are plenty of utilites out there that can go back and forth between filename/directory information and ID3 tags. MP3 Tag Studio is a local favorite. -Zandr Mk.I #150 Mk.II #39
_________________________
-Zandr
Mk.IIa #010101243 currently getting a 500GB SSD. More spares in the shed.
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#18333 - 01/10/2000 09:12
Re: Got my Nomad Jukebox...
[Re: Dylan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I'm currently ripping my CD's into a hierarchy that is only one level deep. Artist is a dir and then all of the tracks are underneath that dir with album title, track #, and track name in the name of the file. Should I be creating subdirectories for each album?I would, yes. If listening to a given album is important to you, then you should definitely create a subdirectory for each album. That way you'll get the albums as playlists under the artist. Note that this doesn't prevent you from playing the whole artist. You can hit the "play" button at any point in the tree and it'll play all the branches below that point. My current structure on the Empeg is as follows: artist/album artist/album artist/album artist/album (etc.) Various - Low key - - Tony's Favorites- - Demo - - Test Audio - - Filks - - LAN Party - This allows me to scroll to a given artist alphabetically, while still having my "mood" playlists show up first (hence the hyphens). Note that those "mood" playlists don't exist on my PC anywhere, they are just copies of tracks from the artist playlists, they were created entirely in Emplode. ___________
Tony Fabris
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#18334 - 01/10/2000 17:40
Re: Got my Nomad Jukebox...
[Re: Dylan]
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veteran
Registered: 16/06/1999
Posts: 1222
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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In reply to:
Should I be creating subdirectories for each album?
yes you should... personally, i'm using
genre
--\artist
-----\album1
-----\album2
etc...
-mark
MK2: 36gb
Tivo: 90gb
CPU: 120gb
...I think drive manufacturers love me!
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#18335 - 01/10/2000 18:28
Re: Got my Nomad Jukebox...
[Re: dionysus]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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yes you should... personally, i'm using
genre
--\artist
-----\album1
-----\album2
Boy, you rock and roll junkies don't realize just how easy you have it.
Try filling your empeg with classical music and see if you can come up with such a nice, neat, elegant way of cataloguing your music.
Do you arrange the music by Composer? Then how about sub-genres that cross composer boundaries: Concerto, Symphony, Sonata, Overture, etc. Well, maybe those sub-genres under each composer, then? Now, how do I deal with the fact that any symphony is going to have four tracks, so each symphony has to be its own playlist? (OK, I know -- Beethoven's Pastoral symphony has five movements, not four, but you get the idea...) How do I name the tracks in the ID3 tags? Can't just say "Symphony #5, 3rd Movement" -- is it Beethoven's symphony, Tchaikovsky, maybe Dvorak? If I'm playing tracks in random order, there's no way to tell. Then there's all the short works that don't fall into ready categories, like a Hungarian Dance by Brahms, or a Beethoven minuet. How do I identify orchestras, conductors, soloists, composers, and sub-genres, when all I have to work with is a couple of fields called (uselessly) "Artist" and "Album".
My head hurts. I'm going to go away now. Maybe I'll just start listening to Rock and Roll instead.
tanstaafl.
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#18336 - 02/10/2000 15:42
Re: Got my Nomad Jukebox...
[Re: Dylan]
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addict
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 498
Loc: Virginia, USA
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It does have line level outs for front and rear. They sound exactly like the headphone output at maximum volume.
FWIW, the Creative rep responded to my newsgroup post and said that the line out and headphone out should not have identical behavior. I may have had a defective unit (or I may not have). I don't feel like finding out. I'll just take out the second mortgage for the Empeg which is really what I wanted all along.
-Dylan
Queue# 15969
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#18337 - 02/10/2000 16:49
Re: Got my Nomad Jukebox...
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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veteran
Registered: 16/06/1999
Posts: 1222
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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In reply to:
Do you arrange the music by Composer? Then how about sub-genres that cross composer boundaries: Concerto, Symphony, Sonata, Overture, etc. Well, maybe those sub-genres under each composer, then? Now, how do I deal with the fact that any symphony is going to have four tracks, so each symphony has to be its own playlist? (OK, I know -- Beethoven's Pastoral symphony has five movements, not four, but you get the idea...) How do I name the tracks in the ID3 tags? Can't just say "Symphony #5, 3rd Movement" -- is it Beethoven's symphony, Tchaikovsky, maybe Dvorak? If I'm playing tracks in random order, there's no way to tell. Then there's all the short works that don't fall into ready categories, like a Hungarian Dance by Brahms, or a Beethoven minuet. How do I identify orchestras, conductors, soloists, composers, and sub-genres, when all I have to work with is a couple of fields called (uselessly) "Artist" and "Album".
I over-semplified my arrangement; actually since 50% of my music is techno, I've got a similar (although not as bad) problem; I tend to just copy the cd/playlist/song/whatever to multiple areas to compensate:)
-mark
MK2: 36gb
Tivo: 90gb
CPU: 120gb
...I think drive manufacturers love me!
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#18338 - 02/10/2000 18:35
Re: Got my Nomad Jukebox...
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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new poster
Registered: 07/07/2000
Posts: 3
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How do I name the tracks in the ID3 tags? Can't just say "Symphony #5, 3rd Movement" -- is it Beethoven's symphony, Tchaikovsky, maybe Dvorak? If I'm playing tracks in random order, there's no way to tell.
That's something I've been struggling with as well. What I've been doing is placing the composer's name in Artist, and the title of the symphony and movement in the Title frame. Most players, including the empeg, use these ID3 frames, and I consider the composer "more significant" than the orchestra or conductor to the identification of a piece, so it goes into the "Artist" field. (This policy does create long titles, so ID3v2 is a must. e.g. "Symphony No. 2 in C Minor 'Resurrection' - IV. Urlicht. Sehr feierlich, aber schlicht")
But you're right that this does raise other issues--for example, I have multiple copies of quite a few classical pieces. Is this Beethoven's Ninth performed by the London Philharmonic Orchestra, or Beethoven's Ninth performed by the Chamber Orchestra of Europe?
Partial (and long-term) solution: ID3v2 does have Symphony and Conductor frames, as well as a host of other largely unused tags, but they're not supported by most taggers or players. Also, it's still not perfect--I end up mushing soloists, choruses, etc--basically anyone involved with the performance except the conductor--into the "Orchestra" frame.
I use ID3v2 Tag Editor, which is the only tag editor I know of which does support some of those more obscure ID3v2 frames. Its major weakness is that it doesn't do batch tagging, so you have to do tag each file individually.
The empeg, as I understand it, doesn't currently support these tags, but hopefully a future release will (wishlist: fully configurable info screens based on ID3 frames). Which leads me to a related question: when the empeg grabs ID3 tags for files, does it upload all frames, even those which it currently can't display? (So if they can be displayed in a future release, I won't have to upload them again?)
Side note on classical music: I'm grateful for the ability in AudioCatalyst to modify the start/end points of tracks, to compensate for all the CDs which have a single movement split among several tracks. I always "correct" this when I rip those CDs.
#11191, but I'm waiting for the tuner.
_________________________
#11191, but I'm waiting for the tuner.
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#18339 - 02/10/2000 19:03
Re: Got my Nomad Jukebox...
[Re: cec]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Which leads me to a related question: when the empeg grabs ID3 tags for files, does it upload all frames, even those which it currently can't display? (So if they can be displayed in a future release, I won't have to upload them again?)Unfortunately, the empeg doesn't display any tag information at all. I think you're misunderstanding how it works. The empeg displays only what's in its database, which is completely independent of the tags attached to the files. Now, at the moment you drag and drop a file onto emplode, it populates the database fields with whatever it can yank from the tags. But that only happens at the initial drag-and-drop onto emplode. After that, all you ever see is the contents of the database. So if the database doesn't have any fields for composer/conductor/orchestra/soloist, then there isn't any way to store that data for future use. And I'm pretty sure that those fields aren't available in the database right now. So even if they were added in a future release of the software, they wouldn't magically appear. There is a possibility that someone could write a utility that'd go through the tags (which are still in the files, they aren't deleted), and repopulate the database. But a lot of other stuff would have to happen before this was even possible. ___________
Tony Fabris
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#18340 - 03/10/2000 11:15
Re: Got my Nomad Jukebox...
[Re: tfabris]
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new poster
Registered: 21/09/2000
Posts: 8
Loc: Wisconsin
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Does the database currently store the Comment Field? If it does that would give 254 potential characters of space for adding free text like performers and soloists or anything else useful. I had previously asked in the wish list if there would ever be searching on free text in the comment field. This would sound like another potential application for that capability. I still hope that feature might be added and have been adding long comment fields to the ID3V2 tags in anticipation of being able to use that info some day.
Tom Hitchcock
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Tom Hitchcock
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#18341 - 03/10/2000 11:24
Re: Got my Nomad Jukebox...
[Re: empegLover]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Does the database currently store the Comment Field? If it does that would give 254 potential characters of space for adding free text like performers and soloists or anything else useful.Yes, the database stores the comment field. At the moment, it won't display the comment field on the player, but I seem to recall the Empeg folks have made noises about a possible "screen designer" which would allow you to design your own info screens. Combine this with a "search by comment" feature, and you've got a solution. ___________
Tony Fabris
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#18342 - 03/10/2000 17:58
Re: Got my Nomad Jukebox...
[Re: tfabris]
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member
Registered: 16/12/1999
Posts: 188
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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The empeg database appears to let you have whatever fields you like. I've got a tracknumber field (for when we can sort playlists by arbitrary fields), as well as composer, conductor, etc fields where necessary. Of course, none of them are much use to me at the moment. :)
Richard.
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#18343 - 03/10/2000 22:25
Re: Got my Nomad Jukebox...
[Re: rjlov]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Are you saying that (a) there are already composer/conductor/etc fields in the database and we just don't see them, or that (b) you (as a programmer) can modify the database to add whatever fields you want? "a" would be useful if these fields were being populated with the contents of V2 tags right now. "b" is academic and doesn't really help the end-user if the player software doesn't support your arbitrarily-created fields. ___________
Tony Fabris
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#18344 - 03/10/2000 22:48
Re: Got my Nomad Jukebox...
[Re: tfabris]
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member
Registered: 16/12/1999
Posts: 188
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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As a user of emptool I can add arbitrary fields to the database. I don't have to be able to program at all.
You are quite correct that this doesn't actually help the end user. That's what I meant when I said that it didn't do me much good to have all these fields. I've just been populating them against the possibility of some kind of "search by field x" functionality or "display all fields" info display eventually making its way into the player.
Richard.
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#18345 - 07/10/2000 15:52
Re: Got my Nomad Jukebox...
[Re: n6mod]
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member
Registered: 07/10/2000
Posts: 112
Loc: CA, USA
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< >
I have a PJB100 and love it. I use LAME to encode, and use a 190 VBR as I also play the music on my home system. The first day I received the unit, I had a 20GB Toshiba drive ready to install into the unit. The sound quality is very good.
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#18346 - 09/10/2000 10:05
Re: Got my Nomad Jukebox...
[Re: tfabris]
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new poster
Registered: 07/07/2000
Posts: 3
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Unfortunately, the empeg doesn't display any tag information at all. I think you're misunderstanding how it works. The empeg displays only what's in its database, which is completely independent of the tags attached to the files.
Actually, I did understand that. I just didn't express myself well. (Despite my "stranger" status I've been lurking here for quite a while. :)
So if the database doesn't have any fields for composer/conductor/orchestra/soloist, then there isn't any way to store that data for future use. And I'm pretty sure that those fields aren't available in the database right now. So even if they were added in a future release of the software, they wouldn't magically appear.
OK, thanks for your response. Sounds like a post over in wishlist is in order.
#11191, but I'm waiting for the tuner.
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#11191, but I'm waiting for the tuner.
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