It's disturbing to find a complete lack of rational discourse regarding in-car empeg players "out on the internet" with the exception of this place. Does anyone find it rather odd that everywhere the empeg appears in a review, a number of naysayers appear within moments to trash the product? Not to start any conspiracy theories, but in who's best interests would it be to have the empeg trashed in every public forum on the internet? The major car audio player companies? mp3 hardware competitors?

Calvin

For altman's sake, don't ignore it!

I had a leak in the top of my radiator; I ignored it. It could have been just $50 for a bit of careful welding on the radiator. But no. Instead, it was a blown head gasket and warped head - I kept boiling dry - and cost me nearly $1000 in all to have the head machined _and_ buy a new radiator.

For the want of a nail...

Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.

I personally don't find it particularly surprising, because I don't think it's as bad as you say. The main thing to remember is that that forum is also catering to the people who think a $200 device is expensive, and exclaim "when will I find the perfect car MP3 CD-R player!" - meaning one which does everything and is also cheaper than all the rest. You can't honestly compare a Nomad to an empeg - it's not even in the same time zone. And yet that's where it's placed - naturally, the other people in the board have a different view.

I remember when I started looking at MP3 and had a lot of suspicion at first. I couldn't get WinAmp to work on my machine (stupid 8-bit sound card device driver in NT) and naturally invented justifications for why it wasn't worth the effort. Now, of course, I know better - after all, I've successfully converted another sceptic (my brother) to the fold.

Of course, all the car audio sellers out there want you to buy their own equipment; they've already got their reasons ranked up for why customers shouldn't buy portable MP3 players and should instead shell out for non-portable car CD players or what-have-you. Plus, from my experience a fair percentage of those people behind the counter wouldn't have the foggiest about the technicalities of things like SNR, THD, grounding loops or parametric EQ; they have a hard time when you start talking watts! Most of them are people have done no course in electronics or electrical engineering, they're just ordinary joes with a liking for car audio and the perks of being inside the trade.

Not to say that there aren't some very experienced ones out there. But I think the experience of this board has proved that those experienced people also recognise the empeg as a quality piece of kit worthy of serious attention. The others either want to sell you something or have been burnt by some dodgy MP3 player in the past.

I still don't know how I'm going to find an installer when I get my empeg...

Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.

head gasket related recall,

Yeah, I know about that one. Unfortunately, it is for 94--95 models only (in the Taurus line; other cars using the same engine, i.e, Windstar and Continental) have different recall parameters) and even if my car were in the allowable model year range, it has too many miles to be covered. Sigh.

Don't know for certain yet that it is head gaskets, but given the history of the 3.8 liter engine, chances are better than even that it is. I could just keep pouring coolant into it, but if it is a head gasket it is going to get worse pretty quickly, and even if it doesn't get worse it will ruin my O2 sensor and my catalytic converters if I don't take care of it.

On a topic just barely peripherally related to coolant leaks... does anybody know whether gasoline will attack the plastic in a typical one-gallon antifreeze container? I have a storage compartment in my car that is the perfect size to hold such a container, but a standard gasoline container won't fit there. I am running a test now, with an antifreeze container full of gasoline sitting out in the driveway, but maybe somebody already knows this?

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

Blimey! You make it sound as if there's a blood bath going on somewhere.

Any chance of a URL or a re-posting of a particularly nasty-bit of in-fighting?

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

Well guess what - if it's a Unipart Bluecol bottle, I wouldn't light any matches on your driveway

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

From what I remember from my days as a convenience store clerk, they always told us that gasoline would attack the plastic (it's too thin, and not designed for this purpose.)

I never experimented with it, so this is just hearsay... I know that they make very small (½ gallon or so) container. Is this too small for your needs?

I also saw an add (late night TV) for a $29.95 container that was about the size of a small cereal box that contained a gas-like substance that you were supposed to be able to carry around in the back of your car forever.

Update: The product was Spare Tank $19.95 for a gallon.

-Trevor

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Mk 2, Green 12GB 080000349

Edited by trevorp on 28/9/00 04:13 PM.

even if it doesn't get worse it will ruin my O2 sensor and my catalytic converters if I don't take care of it.

News flash. It already has.

As I understand it, the O2 sensor is a pretty critical component of most electronic fuel injection systems, and if it's not functioning right, then various electronically-controlled parts of your ignition system aren't running at optimum efficiency...

___________
Tony Fabris

Quite honestly, I reckon that a glycol-contaminated sensor is the absolute least of your worries if you have coolant leaks into your oilways. I think I would be more worried about cranks and big-end bearings wearing out due to oil contamination.

If someone is telling your that burnt glycol can destroy a lambda sensor, then they are out to rip you off. They are easily cleaned in ethyl alcohol. The lambda sensor is the sensor that determines the amount of uncombined oxygen (or ozone) in the exhaust strem, and it acts as the exhaust "sniffer" that closes the loop in the feedback system controlled by the ECU. It is not the only sensor, however; if it fails, it is likely your engine will just run rich. Second hand ones from scrappers are a lot cheaper than new ones; having said that, I've never had one fail on me in any car I've had, and my mate (owner of Liverpool's main Bosch diagnostic centre) reckons that they are the last things to go, since they are usually ceramic and palladium.

Likewise for cats - they aren't likely to be screwed by a bit of boiled coolant, no matter how much fuel or oil is in there with it. The coolant drops their operating temperature so much that they can't cook - so all they do is fail to operate, not fail completely.

If you've burst a head gasket you should not try to continue to drive with it, as you will pressurise your cooling system (burst radiator and internal heater matrix), push water into the oil (knackered crank, big ends, small ends, cam shaft bearings, oil pump) warp the cylinder head (damaging the cam bearings, cam, cam sleeves, cam followers), burn the cylinder block face (leading to another failure). The first order of the day is getting the gasket changed and a full engine flush with decent quality hygroscopic oil - assuming the head isn't already warped anyway ...

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

News flash. It already has.

No. At least, not yet. The car very recently went through emissions inspection (in order to get it titled and licensed in Alaska) and the technician said it was very nearly the cleanest-running car he had ever tested. Levels of CO, CO2, and hydrocarbons were running at 1%--5% of the allowable amounts -- in other words, the car could have been running 20 to 100 times "dirtier" and still passed.

[i..]...if you have coolant leaks into your oilways...

There is no oil contamination. At least, not yet.

..so all they do is fail to operate, not fail completely.

They're operating (see first paragraph, above). I may have overstated the severity of the problem. If it is a head gasket (not certain but likely) it is probably leaking into an exhaust port, not into a cylinder (which would over-pressurize the cooling system, cause coolant leaks and overheating just as schofiel said) nor into an oil gallery which would cause very unhappy things to happen with every bearing in the engine but would also be immediately evident from brown, foamy sludge on the dipstick and oil filler cap.

Since the coolant loss is minimal on a long, sustained trip (perhaps half a quart in 3000 miles in which the engine was never allowed to cool) but is considerable on a series of short distance trips (perhaps a quart in 30 10-mile trips) I suspect the problem occurs only when the engine is not at operating temperature -- maybe five or six minutes a day total.

I'll have it looked at next week (he has to finish my wife's car first) to find out just what the bad news is. I mean, it could always be a loose clamp on a heater hose, right?

Yeah. Right.... And the check is in the mail, too. :-(

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

AAHHH! TING (Sound of penny dropping)

Doug, yours is a Ford V6 in a Taurus! I am willing to bet (say, around $100) that you have a defective water pump.

Check it out, you may get a surprise. This is a common failure on all short-block Ford V6s, and is also Ford's main component design problem. I have seen this on my neighbour's (imported) Taurus, a few Cortinas, several Escorts (one of which also took out the non-return valve to the brake servo - interesting combination of failure modes, that - "what's that steam? Better stop and SSSHHHHIII......"), a couple of Siestas, a Sierra Cosworth, an Anglia, blimey the list goes on and on. Suffice to say, Ford water pump designs are CRAP

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

Likewise for cats - they aren't likely to be screwed by a bit of boiled coolant, no matter how much fuel or oil is in there with it. The coolant drops their operating temperature so much that they can't cook - so all they do is fail to operate, not fail completely.

Cooking cats by boiling them in coolant is rarely the best option. The meat is too tender and the coolant leaves a bad aftertaste. Grilling a cat on a slow fire works much better IMHO. Serve with mashed potatoes and red wine.

Borislav

Well, like they say - there's more than one way to skin a cat

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

does anybody know whether gasoline will attack the plastic in a typical one-gallon antifreeze container?

Well, it's been two and a half weeks now, and the antifreeze container (a hard, white plastic bottle sold by NAPA auto parts) shows absolutely no signs of deterioration. The lid actually seals more securely than a conventional polyethylene (or whatever kind of plastic) genuine gasoline container, because the complex construction of those containers (in order to accommodate the extensible pouring tube and the vent opening) necessitates a lot more potentially leakable joints and seals.

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

I was lucky enough to find a great installer to install my empeg. Sound Solutions in Chantilly VA (for those of you who live in the area), had extremely knowledgeable personel, and they were not afraid to admit (and they did admit) that MP3 was most likely the future of car audio.

I know that when I was just looking at ICE MP3 players just for fun (not really considering buying one), I saw someone post that the empeg was $1200, and I completely wrote it off. Then I visited the empeg site, and with only the feedback of a handful of Mark 1 owners, I was converted right then and there. Hell I was convinced into getting a new stereo in the first place, let alone a $1300 empeg plus another $700 for the sub, amp and installation!

Give them time, they will see the light. They just aren't open minded.

DiGNAN