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#189994 - 19/11/2003 11:30 audio Setup for RioCar
EmeriReD
new poster

Registered: 19/11/2003
Posts: 2
I was wondering what you guys think would be a good setup for the RioCar. I listen mostly to Rock, so I need the Speaker, Amp, and Subwoofer setup to accomidate for this. I'm looking to spend about 750-1000 on the setup. I would like to see what others have put in their cars. If this matters, I have a 98 acura integra. THanks.

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#189995 - 19/11/2003 12:11 Re: audio Setup for RioCar [Re: EmeriReD]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31286
Loc: Seattle, WA
If this matters, I have a 98 acura integra.
Yes, it does matter. Actually, that's what matters the most, more than the Rio Car itself. The Rio Car is just a source for the sound, no different than a CD player in terms of what it puts out.

So the question you're asking is a standard question: "What kind of amps and speakers should I put in my car?"... and I'm sure you'll soon find out that the answer is going to vary widely depending on who you talk to.

I recommend:

If you're going to do the install yourself, call up Crutchfield and see what they recommend for amplifier, speakers, and subwoofer for that particular car. While you're at it, get the dash install kit, harness, and master sheet to make the install work correctly.

If you're going to have the install done by a professional, then go to their shop and talk to them directly about what they think would be best.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#189996 - 21/11/2003 23:18 Re: audio Setup for RioCar [Re: EmeriReD]
belezeebub
addict

Registered: 11/01/2001
Posts: 579
Ok even though I no longer have my Empeg I think I can help

Infinity Kappa compounts you can pick them up new on ebay for a reasonable Price and there the most realisitc sounded speakers for under 200 bucks a set

Amps go PPI best skex, SN ratio and best frequency responce for under 1k each you can pick up a 4x 125rms amp for under 500 bucks

Subs Kicker Solos the old round ones the new ones are too boomy or alpine R2 in a sealed box

you can put the whole system together for under 1500 or spend more and get more..

I am running 2 pairs of Diamond s 600s in a s-10 blazer the PPI 4x125am for the doors and a ppi pc2400 for the subs Nice clean and LOUD, on the rare times I listen to ram I can hit 132 with no distortion that I can hear and AC/DC rocks out on my long road trips I am running 2 12 Kicker solos for subs way over kill but I had them from back when they were new and won't give them up.



Edited by belezeebub (21/11/2003 23:21)
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#189997 - 23/11/2003 04:45 Re: audio Setup for RioCar [Re: belezeebub]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5402
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
I think I can help

That isn't how I set up my system... but mine is certainly no better!

Excellent, solid, mainstream choices all around. We do share a few commonalities -- my subwoofer amp is PPI, and I have a lot of Diamond Audio speakers (eight of them the last time I counted...)

tanstaafl.
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

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#189998 - 23/11/2003 08:51 Re: audio Setup for RioCar [Re: EmeriReD]
m6400
member

Registered: 18/09/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Erie, PA
Infinity Kappas are popular for a reason : )

Just to let you know, I drive a 95 Mazda MX-6 which has similar airspace to your car. Of course YMMV.

First, I am going to give you a bit of advice that some on this board might disagree with, however I would advise you to use your own judgment. Ditch your back speakers. All they do is ruin you soundstage and waste your money. They do nothing to improve imaging (music is recorded in stereo (2 speakers) not quadrophonic (4speakers) and even if it is the empeg can't output it (i think). Connect the 2 front outputs to the amp for your fronts and use the rear outs for you sub.

For fronts I have (drum roll please......) Infinity Kappas! I have a Profile amp pushing 100 watts RMS to each of them (make sure to look at the RMS rattings as it is the only one that comes even close to mattering). This is THE RMS rating for the speakers. You can go less but not much higher than the rating. Since it is RMS (Root Mean Squared) it is an aproximate rating so you don't have to be exact. Best shoot for an amp in the 50-110% of your speaker's RMS rating.

For the sub I have an Infinity Perfect 12" in a sealed box that came free with it from crutchfield. Thats right, only one sub. Low frequencies are not directional so you dont need stereo for them. It is better to go with one really good sub than 2 cheap-o's. Now, this sub is rated at 300 watts RMS and something like 1200 max. I have a (seperate) Profile amp pushing 400 watts RMS at it. "But Marcus....thats 100 watts over it's rating!". It's in a smallish sealed box, its an Infinity, its been running fine for the past 9 months. It can handle it if it is tuned properly. (More on this later.)

I have the crossovers on the amps set to 85 Htz (the fronts getting the high frequencies, the sub the lows obviously). This seems to work very well for these speakers. One thing you will love about these speakers (especialy for rock) is the nice even lower frequency responce throuout the mid and lower bass ranges. People who are used to listening to people's one note wonder boom subs marvel at the smooth responce of my car. (Its not perfect, but better than most have heard).

On profile amps:
They are cheap, they work as good as any. That about sums it up. Used to have problems in the past, but they are over that. SQ is great. You would have to spend a LOT more to get anything signifacantly better, and if your not used to listening to ultra-high quality sound setups you probably still wouldn't notice much of a difference.

Total system cost for me (sans empeg) was $750 shipped. Right at the bottom of your budget and it just blows me away. So how does that sound for you?

Thats all I have time for now. I'll try to post more about setting gains and such (crucial to getting your system to sound right) later. Feel free to ask any questions.
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- Marcus -

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#189999 - 23/11/2003 13:27 Re: audio Setup for RioCar [Re: m6400]
belezeebub
addict

Registered: 11/01/2001
Posts: 579
Profile is a crutchfield Amp the posted stats are nice and the amps are CHEAP but unposted things like Slew rate and dynamic head room are much lower the PPI, I have always beed a big fan of the get the best cleanest amps and skip a little on the speakers cuase I feel the amp makes more differance becuase a clean will not be adding more junk into your music.


P.S. if Boom is not your thing go with 2 or 3 Long throw 8's or 10's they respond faster and are tighter then a 12 or 15



Edited by belezeebub (23/11/2003 13:34)
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#190000 - 23/11/2003 23:54 Re: audio Setup for RioCar [Re: m6400]
EmeriReD
new poster

Registered: 19/11/2003
Posts: 2
Thanks for all the good info. I have somewhere to start now. I'll have to get out there and start listening to the Kappa's. Anyone ever heard of CDT's? What do you guys think of those speakers?

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#190001 - 24/11/2003 13:00 Re: audio Setup for RioCar [Re: EmeriReD]
mtempsch
pooh-bah

Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1996
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
CDTs - haven't heard them myself, but the guys over at www.sounddomain.com seems to like them.

/Michael
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/Michael

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#190002 - 24/11/2003 17:40 Re: audio Setup for RioCar [Re: tfabris]
tarkie
journeyman

Registered: 28/12/2001
Posts: 99
In reply to:

The Rio Car is just a source for the sound, no different than a CD player in terms of what it puts out.




Oh my gawd, Linn and Naim owners around the world gasp in unison at Tony's blasphamy!

Source first young Tony, Source first.
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#190003 - 24/11/2003 17:47 Re: audio Setup for RioCar [Re: tarkie]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31286
Loc: Seattle, WA
Source first young Tony, Source first.
Nope. Speakers first, amp second, source last.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#190004 - 24/11/2003 17:56 Re: audio Setup for RioCar [Re: tfabris]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5402
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
Nope. Speakers first, amp second, source last.


Uhhhh... yeah. What he said.

With the following caveat:

It is assumed the the source is of adequate quality to begin with. Not great, mind you, just not glaringly deficient. Just about any $99 CD player would be adequate.

The best source in the world will not sound good playing through cheap OEM speakers. The factory probably paid less than $5 apiece for them, and there is a reason that audiophiles pay 30 or even 50 times that much for their replacements.

That said, an adequate source will sound really good through good speakers. Chances are you would not notice (by ear) the difference between a $99 CD player and an $899 CD player in your car.

tanstaafl.
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

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#190005 - 24/11/2003 22:39 Re: audio Setup for RioCar [Re: tanstaafl.]
m6400
member

Registered: 18/09/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Erie, PA
same for $150 amp vs. $500 amp (assuming same watt output) which is why i used Profiles as stated above.

I'm really tired tonight, I'll do the stuff about the gains and whatnot tomorow.
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- Marcus -

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#190006 - 25/11/2003 11:38 Re: audio Setup for RioCar [Re: tfabris]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
My audio production professors always said, "First find your budget. Then spend 1/2 of it on the best speakers you can find. Then take half of the remainder and spend it on the amp. Whatever is left over will have to cover your source(s), wires and other goodies..." This was for home and pro audio, not the car, but I assume the same applies..
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Brad B.

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#190007 - 25/11/2003 12:10 Re: audio Setup for RioCar [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31286
Loc: Seattle, WA
Yup, perfect formula.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#190008 - 25/11/2003 14:07 Re: audio Setup for RioCar [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
m6400
member

Registered: 18/09/2002
Posts: 188
Loc: Erie, PA
He'd obviously never heard of the empeg (pre-firesale).

OK, I said I was going to talk about gain setting, so here it is.

First go here. Pretty much all the nececary info is on that page, but for you convenience I will outline here what you will be doing.

Download his gain setting cd and load it on your empeg. After everything is hooked up, turn your gains on your amps all the way down and the volume on the empeg up to 0 dbs. Play the test tones and slowly turn the gain up on one of the amps untill you hear it distort, then back off a bit. Do the amps one at a time with the proper frequency test tones for the speakers you are doing. It will be loud so have the doors open and wear ear protection. (Your neighbour might wonder about the weird noises coming from your car, but ignore them.)

Once you do that, that is about it. You can play with the EQ to make things sound a bit better if you like (always attenuate, never turn them up past 0 dbs, it will only distort).

While a lot of us like Kappas, pick what speakers sound best to your ears. Go in shops and listen to as many different speakers as you can before you buy anything. For amps I still say you just want the cheapest one that still puts out a good clean signal, and Profile does it for me.

Good luck, post and let us know what you finaly go with!
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- Marcus -

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#190009 - 25/11/2003 18:39 Re: audio Setup for RioCar [Re: m6400]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
I bought my first Mk2 for $1200.00US not including shipping from the UK and customs. So nah-nah! But the empeg is more than just a source, it's a music mass storage/player/computer. I paid for features. But if you total up the price of my home speakers and car speakers, I guess that'd still fit the formula.
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Brad B.

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#190010 - 26/11/2003 05:27 Re: audio Setup for RioCar [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3522
Loc: Columbus, OH
Then there are those of us whose source is worth more than the vehicle...
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~ John

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#190011 - 26/11/2003 11:28 Re: audio Setup for RioCar [Re: JBjorgen]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31286
Loc: Seattle, WA
Oh yeah: Speakers first, amp second, source third, vehicle last.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#190012 - 26/11/2003 11:46 Re: audio Setup for RioCar [Re: tfabris]
mtempsch
pooh-bah

Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1996
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
If the vehicle ends up at that position in the list, you might want to put in another post as number 4 - sound damping, and push the actual car down another notch...

/Michael
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/Michael

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#190013 - 26/11/2003 11:55 Re: audio Setup for RioCar [Re: mtempsch]
rtundo
addict

Registered: 27/02/2001
Posts: 569
Loc: Albany, NY
Nay, just get a more powerful amp

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#190014 - 27/11/2003 11:23 Re: audio Setup for RioCar [Re: rtundo]
belezeebub
addict

Registered: 11/01/2001
Posts: 579
I disagree

if your source is putting out 50h-18khz at 10 percent distortion (I have seen cheap cd players with these stats)

and your amp is adding 5% more distortion then the best speakes in the world will still sound like junk

Speakers don't really add distortion the just do there best at playing the sound feed to them, I would go amp, source, speakers in that order

If you have a good clean amp you can use less volume on the deck and get a clearn sound

if you have a good source you are putting out less distortion for the amp to work with

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#190015 - 30/11/2003 21:03 Re: audio Setup for RioCar [Re: belezeebub]
belezeebub
addict

Registered: 11/01/2001
Posts: 579
I just listened to a Profile amp its exceptable missing some of the headroom of the PPI but most people couldn't hear the differance.
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#190016 - 30/11/2003 22:43 Re: audio Setup for RioCar [Re: belezeebub]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
I don't have much time right now, but your order of priority is definitely incorrect. The source is the pinnacle of importance. The speakers (in your three-way list) would come next, and last the amp.

Don't get me wrong. One amp may be much better than another amp (but you have to set a number of things aside to compare apples to apples), but it's all moot if you've skimped or skipped prioritizing the first two. Given amps of the same power rating, not including any filter circuits (cut-offs, etc..) then one amp is pretty much as "good" as another when played back at the same volume. It would be much easier to pick out the other two component types in a blind test. Now of course amp selection may involve other bells and whistles, but that should all come after source and speakers, IMO.

There's a moderator of a forum I used to frequent who's willing to put $10000 on the line to prove the point above about the amp.

Just make sure whatever amp is used can provide enough power to drive the speakers being used. Otherwise you may as well revisit the speaker selection and you're back near the beginning (near because it's already determined that all this evaluation would lead to adding components to the one true source, the empeg. )

Bruno
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#190017 - 02/12/2003 09:00 Re: audio Setup for RioCar [Re: belezeebub]
belezeebub
addict

Registered: 11/01/2001
Posts: 579
Here is something to chew on and its under 1000 dollars nicely matched and should sound pretty good.
My original message was much longer, but after I was done writing it I noticed it looked more like a rant then a post. So I decided everyone is entitled to there own opinions and in the end what really matters is it sounds good to you and to hell with what other people think.



Idea system for fewer than 1000 Dollars

Profile CA-400
Performance
RMS Power Output (Watts x Channels) 100 x 2
Frequency Response 20-30k Hz
THD at Rated RMS Power 0.07%
Signal to Noise Ratio 102 dB
Input Voltage 14.4v
Peak Power Output (Watts x Channels) 200 x 2
Power at 2 Ohms (Watts x Channels) 160 x 2
Bridged Power (Watts x Channels) 300 x 1
Minimum Impedance Bridged 4
Minimum Impedance Unbridged 2

Infinity Kappa 60.5CS
Design 2-way
Tweeter Design 1" Dome
Tweeter Composition C.M.M.D.
Woofer Composition C.M.M.D.
Woofer Surround Hi-roll rubber
Parts Warranty 3 Years
Labor Warranty 3 Years
Specifications
Sensitivity 90 dB
Frequency Response 45 - 21k Hz
RMS Power Range (Watts) 2-90
Peak Power Handling (Watts) 270
Impedance (Ohms) 4
Top-mount Depth (Inches) 2 3/16
Bottom-mount Depth (Inches) N/A
Cutout Diameter or Length (inches) 5 1/16

Infinity Reference 1230w
12" Component Subwoofer

Size 12 -inch
Impedance 4 ohms
Cone Material Polypropylene
Surround Material Rubber
Sealed Box Volume (cu ft) 1.25
Ported Box Volume (cu ft) 2
Port diameter (inches) 4
Port length (inches) 12.26
Free-Air No
Dual Voice Coil No
Sensitivity 90dB
Frequency Response 23 - 0.4k Hz
RMS Power Range (Watts) 50-300
Peak Power Handling (Watts) 1200
Top Mount Depth (inches) 6 1/4
Bottom Mount Depth (inches) 6 7/8
Cutout Diameter or Length (inches) 11 3/16
Vas (liters) 78.5
Fs (Hz) 27.27
Qts 0.44
Xmax (millimeters) 12.25
Parts Warranty 1 Year
Labor Warranty 1 Year

Profile Clarus CL600M
300W x 1 Mono Car Amplifier

Performance
RMS Power Output (Watts x Channels) 300 x 1
Frequency Response N/A
THD at Rated RMS Power 0.07%
Signal to Noise Ratio 105 dB
Input Voltage 14.4v
Peak Power Output (Watts x Channels) 600 x 1
Power at 2 Ohms (Watts x Channels) 450 x 1
Minimum Impedance Unbridged 2
Features
Amplifier Class AB
Low-Pass Crossover Frequency 50-120 Hz
Low-Pass Slope (dB/octave) 12 dB
High-Pass Crossover Frequency N/A
High-Pass Slope (dB/octave) N/A
Bass Boost 0-18 dB
Bass Boost Frequency 45 Hz
Fan Cooled No
Fuse Rating 25 x 2
Speaker Level Inputs Yes
Preamp Outputs 1 pair
LED Power Indicator Yes
Height (inches) 2-5/8
Width (inches) 14-3/16
Length (inches) 10-3/16
Parts Warranty 2 YEARS*
Labor Warranty 2 YEARS*


My system sure it cost a Bit more then 1500 but its well worth it.


2 Sets
Diamond Audio Hex
S600a


General
Cone: Kevlar/Nomex Sandwich
Tweeter Cone: Aluminum
Type: Component
Crossover Included: Yes
Drivers: Tweeter, Midbass
Drivers per Channel: 2
Specifications
Power(Watts): 20-170
Imped (ohms): 4
Sensitivity(dB SPL): 91 (w/2.83-V input @ 1 meter)
Freq,. Response: 42Hz-24Khz(ħ3dB)
Dimensions
Midrange
Mount Depth: 2-1/8"
Diameter: 6-1/2"

Tweeter
Dia: 1"
Mounting Type: Flush, Surface, Angle


S
Diamond Audio

TDX 12D2
New addition I was running Kicker Solo's and Alpine R type (Change Subs ALOT still looking for the perfect one)

General
Kevlar Nomex sandwich cone
Die Cast aluminum basket
Neodynium magnet
Huge dual voice coils
Dual spiders with woven tinsel leads
Specifications
Power (W RMS): 1000
Impedance (ohms): Dual 2
Sensitivity (dB SPL): 91 (2.83-V input @ 1 meter)
Freq. Resp: 20Hz-250Hz(ħ3dB
Dimensions
Diameter: 12"
Depth: 8"



2
Precision Power
PCX-1500

Channel: 1
4 ohm: 500
2 ohm: 1000
Bridged: na
Damping: >500
S/N Ratio: >110dB
Dimension: 2.375" x 10"
Length: 25"
THD: 02%
Power Input: 4 Guage
Freq. Resp.: 4.5-100k
I/P Sens.: .15-12V
X/O Slope: 12dB
X/O Freq.: 30Hz-4KHz
X/O Type: 2 way
Input Type: 12 vDC
Cooling Fan: Yes
QBass: QBass™


Precision Power
PCX-4125

Channel: 4
4 ohm: 125
2 ohm: 250
Bridged: 500
Damping: >500
S/N Ratio: >115dB
Dimension: 2.375" x 10"
Length: 25"
THD: 02%
Power Input: 4 Guage
Freq. Resp.: 4.5-100k
I/P Sens.: .15-12V
X/O Slope: 12dB
X/O Freq.: 30Hz-4KHz
X/O Type: 2 way
Input Type: 12 vDC
Cooling Fan: yes
QBass: QBass™ Plus






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______________________________________ Do not meddle in the affairs of Network Administrators, for they are subtle and quick to anger. ______________________________________ Worlds Lamest Wb Site (mine) http://home.comcast.net/~jlipchitz/

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