I started having this problem a month or so back, so I upgraded the drive last week to see if that would solve it. I used it in-car for the first time yesterday and the problem's still there. Basically what happens is, after about 9 and a bit minutes the sound starts stuttering, and then a few seconds later comes to a halt. If I try skipping to the next track it brings up the details on screen, but refuses to play. All menus are still navigable. Same thing happens no matter which song I'm listening to at the time, and *only* when in-car. The only way of resolving it is to pull it out the sled and replace it, then 10 mins later, exactly the same thing happens. I've searched through the FAQ and the boards but couldn't find a similar problem - is it to do with caching? (10 mins at usual bitrate = about 16Mb RAM)

Greetings!

More likely there is a hard drive glitch - cold solder joint, bad cable, etc. Do you see this problem when on AC power? It sometimes only shows up when used in the car because a) temperature extremes and b) possible low voltage or bad power feed not letting the drives spin up properly.

I would recommend a close inspection of both the hard drive cable and the IDE header on the motherboard.

It's never happened on AC power. One thing that makes me think it might be dodgy in-car wiring - occasionally I only get sound from the left-speaker when I'm setting out for a drive, and this seems to right itself after a few minutes.

Sounds like hard drive connection issues -- players are usually warmer in-car than on AC power, and the temperature swing exacerbates such issues

More likely there is a hard drive glitch - cold solder joint, bad cable, etc

I don't think so... it doesn't happen on AC, and the consistent time interval (nine and a fraction minutes every time, whether the unit is warmed up or not) would argue against any sort of random, intermittant failiure like a bad solder joint on the IDE header.

Remember the "jiffies" problem of a few years back? That seemed to be a hardware problem but was really software. That problem was fixed in 2.0b13 but this problem seems to be of a similar nature.

tanstaafl.

Good catch!

What version of the player software are you running?

Hi,

sorry, been away on holiday... I'm running 2.0 final, with no hijack installed. I've just this minute tried reseating the cables as advised, I'll let you know how I get on.

OK, the reseating of the cable seems to have fixed the problem - I went out for a half-hour drive earlier and the glitching/freezing didn't happen! Thanks everybody....

OK, the reseating of the cable seems to have fixed the problem

If the problem ever comes back, have a look at this, especially the photos of the solder joint problem on the IDE header.

well, the problem's come back :-( almost the same as before, except empeg stutters and dies randomly - can be 4 minutes, can be 15. Also it sometimes recovers itself and carries on playing, and sometimes requires pulling out of the sled. Always just before failing the W appears next to the hard drive icon. Again, the player is absolutely fine at home, no problems at all, it's just in the car that the problem occurs. How could it be HDD cable issues if it's fine at home? Anyway, I shall order a new one from Eutronix and see if I have any luck there.

It's most likely not the cable...read that entire FAQ entry...it's most likely a problem with the solder joints like Tony mentioned. I've seen a couple players with this problem now and they reacted much like you describe.

Solder joints.

How could it be HDD cable issues if it's fine at home?

One possible reason is that the car is a different thermal environment. Changes in temperature tend to cause things like iffy solder joints to fail. When you pull the player from the dash, is it hot to the touch?

Also, how's the power wiring? Is it wired correctly and is the player getting enough juice? Another possibility is inadequate power to the drives.

Yes, the player is pretty hot to the touch. I really hope it's not solder joints, as my hands aren't still enough to solder (I believe I mentioned frying an Xbox in an earlier thread ;-).

How can I check the power supply in-car - is there any setting in the empeg to view this, in the same way that you have voltage sensors on some motherboards?

Supply hasn't got much to do with how hot the box gets: two disks and not a lot of ventilation does, however.

I'd suggest looking at the ventilation around the sled. If you over-cook the empeg, then like any other electronic device that's thermally stressed, eventually it will fail. Make sure that there's a good through flow of air for the player, or space around it for convection.

There's only one disk now - I replaced 2 smaller ones with 1*80Gb. I'd say the temperature of the casing is warm-ish, you can hold it without discomfort immediately after removing it from the car. I'll open it up now and have a close look at the solder joints. The boot log didn't show anything out of the ordinary - the CS4132A initialises OK, etc.

While you have it open, move that single drive to the left-side bay (viewed from the front of the player) so that it plugs into the END of the drive ribbon cable rather than the middle.

Doing this will greatly reduce stress (and further damage) to the HD connector that so often fails.

-ml

Too much heat can make the hard disks simply fail outright. What does the Hijack's "Vital Signs" display show when it's playing in-car?

You might even be able to get that Vital Signs screen up while the player is failing. A lot of the hijack stuff keeps working even if the hard disks are totally fubar.

If you had the problem with the IDE connector solder joints, I think you'd likely have more severe problems - failure to boot, and so forth. The fact that it plays and then bails sounds more like the cable, or a flakey disk. However, you have the new disk: it is likely that in replacing the disk you have damaged the connector on the cable, assuming you didn't remove the cable from the main board.

When the player starts to flake, pull it and feel the temperature. If it's really "ouch" hot, it's too hot. If you can hold your palm on it for a count of 10 without discomfort, it's not too hot.

I think you have a dodgy cable, and I would first try a careful re-crimp before anything else. I would normally make a pitch to sell you one, but - along with all my empeg spares, repair kit, and all the other bits I need - they are in a large box buried in a storage room about 10 km away. Sorry - speak to my (soon to be ex) wife about the inconvenience

not much more info to add, 'cept for a "me too".

I'm having your symptom of where the drive plays for 10 minutes and then locks up...BUT I also get "Drive not found, contact support" error messages every once in a while. I haven't had the time to open it up and check everything but it's happening more and more often so I gotta do something quick. I sure as hell ain't going back to CDs!

Luckily I bought an empeg for my brother who never installed it, so if mine dies his will suddenly go missing...

later,
ajay

The IDE header is nearly always the culprit in such situations. Find a skilled technician to resolder it for you, or send it here or to Eutronix for repair.

-ml

I tried moving the drive to the left-side so that it plugs into the end of the cable rather than the middle, and during a half-hour trip in the car yesterday nothing untoward happened. I'm going for a longer (3 hr) trip this weekend so I'll see if this has resolved things!

I have been having this same problem in the past few days when the temperature warms up above 80f.The player freezes on the W--- icon while accessing the drive and on reboot I get the No Hard Disk error. If I leave the player off for a few minutes everything works fine for a few songs until the player warms again.

I have had both hard drives replaced, the IDE header resoldiered and the older style drive cable replaced/repaired at Cambridge a few years back when it was still under warranty . I am 'pondering' if a drive may be failing under higher temperature conditions. Since I am short on space anyway on the two 30gb drives anyway maybe I will start searching for some new drives and use the backup empeg until then...


Sean in NC

when the temperature warms up above 80f.

Is this ambient temp, or is this the player's internal temp? Have you ever checked the player's internal temp with the Hijack "Vital Signs" screen?

OK, I did about 5 hours' driving over the weekend so I was able to narraw down the behaviour to a very specific set of conditions.

1) When I'm driving around town at speeds up to 40 mph the empeg works fine.

2) When I join a motorway/A-road and go above 50 mph the empeg cuts out within 2 mins and displays the W disk icon. When I pull out the empeg and reinsert it, it works for about 2 mins and then cuts out.

3) When I decelerate to below 50 mph on the motorway/A-road, the empeg starts playing again.

Is this becuase the vibrations in the car are more rapid at high speeds? Driving over bumps, potholes etc at speeds below 50mph doesn't cause a problem. So, I guess it's either the cable or the IDE header (it's not the temperature, that's within the tolerance limits). Which is it most likely to be?

Have you checked that the drive tray rubber cones are attached properly? Two of mine came adrift resulting in the drive tray bouncing around to the point that the drives couldn't be read.

Agreed. Check the drive tray and the shock mounts. Also check and inspect the IDE header very carefully, preferably under magnification.

The rubber feet on the right hand side of the tray were resting lightly on top of the metal brace - that surely can't be right, as the right hand side would bounce off the underside of the lid during any vibration. This would accurately explain the skipping behaviour. As a short-term fix I have taped the drive tray to the right hand side. I took the car out for a 1-hour drive on the motorway this morning and the problem has entirely disappeared!

Good catch!

It's easy enough to reseat those cones, just take your time and avoid ripping them.