I don't think that would be a smart move. The Rio brand is extremely strong - and with a $10m advertising campaign recently announced, it's going to get stronger. Consider that Rio is the only brand EVER to attract a co-branding deal with Nike.

I don't think the brand is associated with poor products - the Rio 500 is still my choice of portable player (and not just because they gave me one *grin*) - and forthcoming products are going to take the world by storm. In common with empeg, S3 don't sacrifice features for cost - the Rio Receiver, for example, has Burr Brown DAC's which could easily have been substituted for cheaper components on such a low cost product.

This is turning into a commercial - I'll shut up

Rob

I'm just glad I will be able to laugh when I hear a sales man say, "this is the first true mp3 player for a car, it doesnt require a cd it actually reads from a hard drive", while he's pointing at a box with RIO on it.

He'll be closer to the truth than the other vendors, though. On the plane today, in their duty free catalogue, I read that the I2Go EGO was the world's first MP3 player designed especially for use in a car. Way to go, I2Go!

Rob

If you won't buy a product because of the brand name then that's your call, but the fact of life is that hundreds of thousands of potential clients won't buy from empeg because they see it as too great a risk.

Yes and that's the sad state of most consumers, afraid to try something from the small companies that are truly good and have the best support.

I know this takeover has probably been awhile in the works, and given what I know of the people at Empeg, I wouldn't see them giving up the ghost too quickly. Time will tell.

Congrats guys.

#090000695 Mk2 BLUE 12Gig

I've now had a quick chat on the telephone to Hugo about the acquisition...

This supports the very point that many of us are concerned about. Let's see you "have a quick chat on the telephone" with the CEO of Dell, Gateway, Oracle, or... S3.

I have felt from the beginning that I was part of a very close-knit community with empeg and this bbs. Can it remain that way now that guys@empeg aren't just our guys any more, but are now answerable to higher-ups with agendas of their own?

I have to believe that the input and commentary from the users of this bbs has been of considerable value to empeg. Will S3 appreciate that? Will we still have any say in the future development of our beloved toys?

Having gone through more than a few corporate takeovers, I always wait for the new owners to say "We like the way you're running things. We're not going to change anything." and then I tighten my belt because I know the bad times they are a'coming.

tanstaafl.



"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

It'd be a shame for that to go to waste in future products, wouldn't it? :)

But the really scary part is... it could.

As explanation by example... the most recent corporate takeover of the radio station where I work was by the corporation that owns the greatest number of radio stations anywhere in the world -- nearly 1,000 by last count. The corporation also owns one of the better-known radio automation companies. (This is the hardware/software that is kind of like empeg/emplode on steroids -- it manages and plays all the music, the commercials, the announcer voice tracks, and accommodates the live announcer stuff as well.) At the time of the takeover, we had considerable money (hundreds of thousands of dollars) and time (several man-years) in a competing automation system which, by any objective standard was superior, both in capabilities and ease of use.

Guess what we're using now. Maybe in the long run the Corporate dictators will be proven correct, and the benefits of standardization will outweigh the disadvantages of reduced capabilities.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that things change when other people with different agendas start calling the shots.

And by the way -- I fervently hope that all you guys@empeg are getting absolutely, filthy rich over this! You have worked so hard and done such an extraordinary job over the last couple of years, nobody deserves it more than you. Hugo, get rid of that Miata and go get that Ferrari you've always wanted. Give the Miata to Rob -- I get the feeling he doesn't like Ferraris. "(PS. I'm at home, I'm not officially representing the company right now, and I'm in a bad mood because Michael took Mikka by 7/1000ths in the last 3 minutes of qualifying)." Isn't it amazing how your words can come back to haunt you?

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

well here is my whole take on the merger/takeover.. I am a young gun by all means (20) and well it sounds to me like the good ole boy feeling of the empeg family is being threatend by the evil conglomerations of the corp world.. all i got to say is this smells like the same fish the good ole *nix hackers were screaming and crying about some years ago. And look what linux (the thing they were bitching and crying about) has done to the world. same thing here guys just on a smaller scale. I belive times are changing and all we can do is sit down shut up and enjoy the ride. I mean hugo rob and the gang are an awesome group of people and im sure they wont want to see there sweat blood and tears go to the shiter so fast. Will it happen eventually..only time will tell for now i say share in rejoice with the guys man they worked there ass off and should enjoy every second of what there spoils are. (on a personal note i envy u guys as i myself am attempting to rule the world, give me another year or so) As for S3 closing the source and changeing everything all i can say is from a bus. point of view it would be STUPID to close up anymore access to source code.. think about it like this.. They tookover empeg for its intellectual capital not its market share. what do you think constitues empegs intellectual capital.. the 8 or so guys in the uk are def a big part of it at least 70% or so. What of the other 30% u ask.. well my reply is cruise around the forums..the rest of the intellectual capital is US the USERS/Coders/Hackers of the empeg community (note i dont think i have done [censored] to help out empeg as the only coding i can do is morse). I m just trying to point out that if S3 did make a "evil corp" mistake by closing source they would be ass out a talent pool that is only GROWING, so what some 18 yearold punk might make some super cool program that s3 wants to add to the whole package, since the source is free that he used to make the program his program has to be to (correct me if im wrong im not a lawyer) there for all S3 has to do is give credit for the add on and possibly cut the kid a lil deal and hire him for more deving.. WIN WIN situation as for service @empeg IT CAN NEVER GET AS BAD AS AOL. :) haha my .02
congrats empeg
*and if a competetor was to use some code they to have to credit and open there source to correct?*

Your favorite mispelling young customer
dre

Im as confused as a baby in a topless bar...

Ever heard the saying 'the exception that proves the rule'? I agree, the Rio Radio or whatever they are calling it looks cool, but if I didn't know it's background from this BBS I would have assumed it was probably a cheesy little mp3 player with 16Megs of flash that happened to have a tuner included. It is not that I wouldn't buy a product from S3 because of their name as much as I never would have looked to them for a high end car stereo because I associate them with cheap video cards and mp3 players that only hold 45 minutes worth of music. I certainly hope that you guys will change that stereotype.

I do see your point though about people not buying from empeg bacause they don't know the brand and that is a shame.

-Mike

I fully agree with your sentiment tanstaafl. I'ts like part of the family is leaving to work in the big city.
I hope the 'suits' at S3 take note of the achievements which empeg have made.
-successfull design of a ground breaking product
-managing and planning its development, gracefully handling any shortcomings and problems.
-sticking steadfastly to their ideals and the main purpose of the product.
-using that product to springboard and generate future business (almost too sucessfully? )
-marketing the product internationally over the internet and maintaining a helpful and efficient after sales service practice.

and most importantly

-listening to thier consumer base, regardless of criticisms.

Empeg has repeatedly indicated its gratitude to all the 'early adopters' (sounds like a 'Furby' focus group!)
without the BBS and its members empeg would not have developed as it has.
Let's hope S3 share the sentiment and follow the leader!

Murray 06000047
____________________

Didn't the RIO people sell out and incorporate SDMI after
being sued by the RIAA? If so, does this affect the
likelihood of the Empeg being made SDMI compliant?

Paul

Damn good question! Hugo? Rob? Comments?

___________
Tony Fabris

My understanding is this:

SDMI isn't relevant to the car player, because music is copied to it from a PC, not from another digital audio device. This process is specifically excluded from SDMI regulations by the Home Recording Act. Since the car player cannot be used as a source for digital audio recording (at least, not with any software that we supply) this isn't a problem either.

In any case, SDMI is a legal issue which affected empeg in exactly the same way as S3.

Rob

That brings up another question. I recall that at one point you were considering making it possible to take tracks off the player. Is this still a possibility?

DiGNAN

Good article about S3 (Sonicblue)...

http://cnnfn.cnn.com/2000/11/01/technology/sonicblue/

- Jon

"If there had been a really compelling reason to use WinCE, we probably would have done it. It would have had to be *really* compelling, though - we didn't use linux specifically to make it easy to hack on, it was just the best OS for the job.

Bear in mind that the Rio/Dell box we did for them runs Linux, and we have a lot of knowledge on the embedded linux front. It'd be a shame for that to go to waste in future products, wouldn't it? :)"

*sigh*

Please don't be offended, but that sounds an awful lot like waffling to me, which probably means something along the lines of "We'd like to keep using Linux on our products because that's where *our* expertise is, but since it's now S3, if they decide to dictate to us how we build the products, we go along with it."

And don't forget that a great big "compelling reason" to go totally closed, purely MS in so many companies, even technical ones, is "because management said so because some MS guy took them all out to a really expensive lunch and told them how happy it would make them if they dictated that the entire company runs MS products."

I at least hope that S3 realizes that a "compelling reason" at least some of us bought Empegs is because of its openness and hackability.

No, it sounds just like he meant it. He's saying that:
a) Linux was the best OS for the job
b) Linux was the OS they were experienced with
c) it wouldn't be wise for S3 to start making them use an OS that would both limit them in terms of application and in the talents of their newly acquired team (empeg)
d) S3 didn't make them use WinCE on the Rio Reciever (you saw that, right?)

When I realized d), I became a bit more impressed with S3. I was suprised when I saw a company not going for the standard, thus crippling their own products.

But don't get me wrong, I think WinCE is an okay OS for some uses. I've been using it (at a user level) for almost 4 years now on 2 different machines (one of the first WinCE PDA's, a Compaq Companion, and my HP Jornada), and I like many aspects of it. It's a great way to keep the functionality of Windows in a very compact form. While it has its bugs (I think it crashes more than 98 does!), it does its job pretty well.

I think S3 realizes that WinCE is not what this company does, and it certainly wouldn't help with products like the Reciever or the empeg car. Way to go S3.

DiGNAN

Yep, there wasn't anything hidden in Hugo's statement. S3 (SONICblue now I guess) have acquired a development team, and that team specialise in certain areas - and achieve great results. There's no point in acquiring a functional team simply to destroy it.

In any case, although this is news (and maybe a shock) to many of you, we've known about it for months and we know exactly what products we're developing quite far into the future. In fact we've already started developing some of them. I'm sure our embedded Linux expertise is going to prove highly useful.

Rob

As of 21:00 last night the ownership of empeg transfered to S3.

We had a lot of fun developing niche products for interesting people like you, and now we're going to have a lot of fun developing widely distributed products (also for interesting people like you). Keep the feedback coming, your opinions and suggestions will continue to count!

Rob

All I can say is that if there are any competitors for products that you guys develop in the future, you can be sure that I am more likely to buy the one you guys made. I don't think I'm alone on that either.

Just a few questions:
1) Just to clarify, S3 is still planning on supporting and possibly produce empeg car players?

2) Any idea on when you could tell us on stuff you're developing? or is it quite some time till those things are done?

kudos to you guys

DiGNAN

The car player was one of the major reasons for the takeover - S3 will continue to produce and develop it.

Sorry, I can't tell you about new products that we're working on - watch this space!

Rob

Sonic Blue is a *really* weak name. I don't understand these companies that establish a brand name and then change it, confusing everyone. At work, we use Netscape server products, which are now called IPlanet server products. Who the heck recognizes the name IPlanet versus the established Netscape name? It's mind-boggling.

And Sonic blue just sounds goofy, like the one guy said about the Subaru color.

"Hey, this is my new Sonic Blue Empeg."

"But it's not blue, it's amber."

"Uh... yeah, it's my amber Sonic Blue Empeg."

GUH!

-Tony
MkII #554

"I don't think that the Empeg brand will be disappearing any time soon"

Already has -
http://www.sonicblue.com/default.asp?menu=Company
has it spelled as MPEG all the way through, which is a bit lame.

As an owner of a Mk I and Mk II, I'm extremely happy to see funding and support coming in from S3 / SonicBlue - all the best to you guys, and
_Welcome_ to the HELL that is volume :o)
Do you get access to fab space / ASIC teams now? Ooh, the possibilities!
(I guess this means the end of cycling round to collect products with double-digit serial numbers. Oh well, it's a small price to pay :)

Steve.

That's web contractors for you. It should be fixed within the next couple of hours.

Rob

Greetings!

You know you are in trouble when they can't even spell your company's name correctly on their new web site... And no, it is not a typo - they do it a number of times within the page / site.

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

The important name in this case is Rio - thats the well known brand. Few people have heard of S3, and those that have think of graphics cards.

Rob

Yeah, we just discussed this further down the thread. Its being fixed now.

Rob

So, the RIOcar then?

Sounds kooky. But then again, it's still a kick-ass product WGAF what it's called right? (although if they put it on the faceplate)

Actually, let's not start that discussion again then....

Cheers,

Paul.

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

I've been keeping quiet on this subject thus far, mainly for two reasons

1) No one cares what I think.
2) I've got no brain.

Seriously though, I don't see why this takeover/investment/acquisition should be a bad combination.

Do people really distrust Hugo, Rob, Steve et. al. to make such a bad decision? Do we really think that they've not noticed the way things change when small companies are eaten by big companies?

[imaginary conversation]
US: Don't do it - big companies change small companies
Empeg: Oh, bugger, we'd not thought of that - let's not bother.
[/imaginary conversation]

I think that you can see where that's going .... (*grin*).

Personal service can't last forever. Without trying to be antagonistic, the cracks were starting to show in empeg's support (although not on this BBS particularly) - I really believe that this is simply due to the high number of issues:people ratio and a desire to innovate and design rather than to support and sell.

Don't get me wrong - this is NOT a bad thing - I know hundreds of fantastic people who are just the same - it's the old mathmatics principle:

'Working out HOW to solve the problem is interesting - actually solving it is simply number crunching'

Anyway, that's just my 2p on the subject, but I really just want to end on one point:

"Congratulations Empeg (Yes, All of you) - You deserve success!"

Cheers,

Paul.

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

My guess is that it's a spell checker mistake. They've probably never had to type "empeg" into anything before, so it's converting it to the usual term "MPEG". I don't think it was intentional.

Still, as the son of an editor for National Geographic, I know what it's like when you don't proof-read your work (you would not believe how much red ink was on my school reports as a child ).

ps-I think they need better site organization, it took a while just to find out where the Rio products are listed. it's not very clear on the www.riohome.com page. I was also suprised to see that my video card (Viper V770), which is still pretty damn good, is only going for $60. Who needs a $500 voodoo card when mine's doing perfectly well?

DiGNAN

In reply to:

---

As of 21:00 last night the ownership of empeg transfered to S3.

---

Congrats guys! My best wishes are with you guys, and I hope that we can continue to contribute "product research" :)

-mark
(not to mention bug lists:) )

MK2: 36gb
Tivo: 90gb
CPU: 120gb
...I think drive manufacturers love me!