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#227333 - 16/07/2004 10:11 Memory boards
pca
old hand

Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
Hi.

OK. Here's the deal. I have a design for a memory upgrade board for Mk2/2A boards which (although I haven't yet built a prototype) I'm pretty sure will work quite nicely. After much thought, I was unable to come up with a good way of getting it above 64MB, but that should be sufficient for most people. I had hoped for 128MB, but it turns out to be pretty much undoable.

It would be possible to add other things as well, but after talking it over with Hugo we decided there wasn't all that much point. I had considered both 100mbit ethernet and USB host, but dumped them for various reasons:

1) the data rate from the USB host controllers suitable for use in this application are dreadful, according to Hugo, and the controllers consume enormous amount of idle bus cycles, thereby slowing things down.

2) for a number of reasons that have been thoroughly explored in past discussions, 100Mbit ethernet in this application wouldn't really achieve much that 10Mbit doesn't, and complicates things quite a lot.

3) There are supply problems with some of the parts for both USB and ethernet

4) It may well not fit anyway.

So, the current plan is for a PCB which will fit to the underside of the main board, attaching to the test points. It will have 8 64Mbit DRAM chips giving a total of 64MB of ram, and will require one patch wire. On a MK2A you could omit the wire and still get 48MB. On a MK2 you will have to remove the chips currently fitted to get the full amount.

It is a completely surface mount device, and would as such not really be suitable for selling as a kit. I will therefore have to get the things made in batches as completed sub-assemblies, which will then need to be fitted by one or other of the prople floating around who are good at such things.

I am provisionally aiming at a price of about £90-100, and the advantage of doing it this way should be shorter lead times and less supply problems than the tuner kits have. So far, I have contacted a company who can do the assembly, have routed the PCB, and I'm waiting for a quote on quantities of the RAM and on manufacture of the boards.

Anyone interested?

Pca
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...

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#227334 - 16/07/2004 10:26 Re: Memory boards [Re: pca]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14472
Loc: Canada
I'll take one!

Note about 100mb/s ethernet: with more memory, the underlying assumptions have changed, and it would now be able to have a more noticeable impact on I/O due to Linux's caching (which now has more memory to play with).

Cheers!

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#227335 - 16/07/2004 10:33 Re: Memory boards [Re: pca]
skibum
enthusiast

Registered: 27/03/2002
Posts: 248
Loc: Swindon, UK
Drooooool.

I'll take 2 please Patrick. And someone to install them
_________________________
Andy MK2a 60GB Amber 040103916 32mb/Light Kit MK2a 50GB Amber 030102560 32mb

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#227336 - 16/07/2004 10:42 Re: Memory boards [Re: pca]
Shonky
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 2009
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Yep, I'll take one.

Do you still have to remove the original chips for a Mk2a? I assume yes but you only mention that it's necessary for the Mk2 in your post. If not, the original chips are redundant, right?

And there is enough room underneath the PCB right? I don't remember huge amounts of space between the board and metal case but we are talking only one surface mount chip thickness plus PCB (~3mm?)
_________________________
Christian
#40104192 120Gb (no longer in my E36 M3, won't fit the E46 M3)

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#227337 - 16/07/2004 10:46 Re: Memory boards [Re: skibum]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
I am, of course, interested. Four, please. But, a question: what does this do to people with enhanced memory via the stacking method? Does all of the memory need to be removed?
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#227338 - 16/07/2004 10:52 Re: Memory boards [Re: pca]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5680
Loc: London, UK
I'll take two.
_________________________
-- roger

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#227339 - 16/07/2004 10:53 Re: Memory boards [Re: Shonky]
pca
old hand

Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
The board adds 4 identical banks of 16MB, and duplicates the bank0 set currently present on a MK2A. Obviously, this isn't going to work all that well. The idea is that each bank can be disabled by means of a switch on the memory board, so in the case of a MK2A you would turn off the first bank. This would still give you 64M, as the original memory would be used.

As for room, there's a whole 2.5-3mm available! 0.8mm for the PCB, 1.2mm for the chips, 0.1mm for the insulator sheet on each side of the PCB, and loads of room left over

pca
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...

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#227340 - 16/07/2004 10:55 Re: Memory boards [Re: pgrzelak]
pca
old hand

Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
Well, if you've already butchered your poor board, you could disable the appropriate banks on the expansion board to compensate. I would recommend removing the added stacked chips, but it shouldn't be absolutely necessary. You would still only have 64MB though.

pca
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...

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#227341 - 16/07/2004 11:01 Re: Memory boards [Re: pca]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Ah, my board has been hacked a few times already - digital out, illumination hack. The memory was just the most recent. Still, if it is a matter of only gaining an extra 16MB over the existing 48, it may not be practical. Still, I would like to get the boards anyway, just in case I run into trouble later on.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#227342 - 16/07/2004 11:12 Re: Memory boards [Re: pca]
crazymelki
enthusiast

Registered: 16/02/2001
Posts: 373
Loc: Switzerland
I'll also take two.
_________________________
crazymelki.com

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#227343 - 16/07/2004 11:19 Re: Memory boards [Re: pca]
Major_Sarcasm
member

Registered: 28/08/2003
Posts: 149
Loc: Isle of Wight, UK
I'll take one, please Sir.
_________________________
Steve

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#227344 - 16/07/2004 11:23 Re: Memory boards [Re: pca]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
I'm probably in for two or three at least.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

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#227345 - 16/07/2004 11:33 Re: Memory boards [Re: pca]
Folsom
member

Registered: 12/08/2001
Posts: 175
Loc: Atlanta
I'll take two of the boards.

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#227346 - 16/07/2004 11:51 Re: Memory boards [Re: pca]
BryanR
member

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 153
Loc: Berkshire, UK
I'll take one as well, thanks!
_________________________
Bryan.

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#227347 - 16/07/2004 11:58 Re: Memory boards [Re: pca]
Attack
addict

Registered: 01/03/2002
Posts: 598
Loc: Florida
I would order two

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#227348 - 16/07/2004 12:11 Re: Memory boards [Re: pca]
Mach
old hand

Registered: 15/07/2002
Posts: 828
Loc: Texas, USA
I'm in for 1, maybe 2.

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#227349 - 16/07/2004 12:20 Re: Memory boards [Re: pca]
BAKup
addict

Registered: 11/11/2001
Posts: 552
Loc: Houston, TX
Count me in for 2.
_________________________
--Ben
78GB MkIIa, Dead tuner.

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#227350 - 16/07/2004 12:31 Re: Memory boards [Re: BAKup]
pca
old hand

Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
OK, so it looks like my initial test batch of 25 is gone already! I may have to do a bigger initial set.

I have heard back from the memory supplier, and the chips are in stock and rather cheaper than I feared. So that's all right then.

Just the PCB to go now.

pca
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...

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#227351 - 16/07/2004 12:33 Re: Memory boards [Re: pca]
mvigneau
member

Registered: 12/08/2002
Posts: 179
Loc: Manchester, NH
I'll take one. I will have the person that repaired my other chips (many times) do the surface mount soldering for me.

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#227352 - 16/07/2004 12:41 Re: Memory boards [Re: pca]
peakmop
journeyman

Registered: 02/07/2004
Posts: 95
Loc: 384400 km from the Moon
It really sounds much better than stacking and having 6->3 patch wires dangling around.

Count me in for one of those.

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#227353 - 16/07/2004 12:52 Re: Memory boards [Re: pca]
SuperQ
addict

Registered: 13/06/2000
Posts: 429
Loc: Berlin, DE
I'm very much interested, I have an original MK2 player.
_________________________
80gig red mk2 -- 080000125
(No, I don't actually hate Alan Cox)

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#227354 - 16/07/2004 13:34 Re: Memory boards [Re: pca]
Chuck
member

Registered: 06/06/2001
Posts: 183
I'll take at least two!

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#227355 - 16/07/2004 13:35 Re: Memory boards [Re: pca]
coolblue
journeyman

Registered: 28/02/2003
Posts: 50
Loc: Switzerland
count me in for two

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#227356 - 16/07/2004 13:37 Re: Memory boards [Re: Chuck]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
Hmm, a hundred quid for another 32MB of memory. Takes me back ten years! For that sort of price I would struggle to justify it to myself... (Says the man who's just dropped £100 on new headphones )
_________________________
Cheers,

Andy M

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#227357 - 16/07/2004 14:14 Re: Memory boards [Re: pca]
gogee2000
new poster

Registered: 21/09/2000
Posts: 40
count me in for one as well, thank you :-)

i've got a MK2 in case you need to know that as well.

greg


Edited by gogee2000 (16/07/2004 14:15)

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#227358 - 16/07/2004 14:23 Re: Memory boards [Re: pca]
DBALKUNJR
member

Registered: 17/12/2001
Posts: 194
Count me in for one as well.
_________________________
Dave

MK2 12Gb
MK2a 60Gb

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#227359 - 16/07/2004 14:29 Re: Memory boards [Re: pca]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
Quote:
Well, if you've already butchered your poor board,

Hey! I'd hardly call it 'butchered'.
_________________________
Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962 sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.

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#227360 - 16/07/2004 14:51 Re: Memory boards [Re: pca]
schofiel
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
Need you ask? I'll take two, and I'm prepared to install/test them also.
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

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#227361 - 16/07/2004 14:54 Re: Memory boards [Re: genixia]
schofiel
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
You have to know Patrick....
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

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#227362 - 16/07/2004 14:58 Re: Memory boards [Re: schofiel]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
I guess he's protective of his babies. I wonder how he'll feel when I completely disassemble a Mk1 mainboard.
_________________________
Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962 sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.

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