#232738 - 06/09/2004 23:49
C# / .Net
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/09/2000
Posts: 2303
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Gotta give it props .. I've been writing an app in C# this past weekend and it's pretty damn nice. It has all the niceties of Java + full access to the entire MS API set. Visual C# Express is also very impressive. Coming from Eclipse, the bar is set REALLY high as far as IDE's go and VC#E really seems to deliver on most of my expectations (the refactorings look to be very similar to Eclipse, which I can't live without now). Not to mention VC#E is fast as crap ... Eclipse is pretty snappy, but it's got NOTHING on Microsoft's IDE. I'm still a Java guy at heart, but it really was an enjoyable experience. For the record, the app basically uses WinDVD's DVD decoder/renderer/navigation but wraps it in an app that makes it behave exactly how I want it to (always open full screen on the projector <second display>, only pay attention to mouse movements when they're on the second display, better remote control support, etc) --- I got tired of waiting for WinDVD to respond to my emails and VLC just isn't there yet. Given what I wanted to do, Java just wasn't going to be an option without wrapping the entire set of DirectShow API's with JNI (which, of course, is basically what somebody did for C#, which is what I'm using, but at least it wasn't ME doing it  ).
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#232739 - 07/09/2004 00:27
Re: C# / .Net
[Re: mschrag]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14488
Loc: Canada
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C# is okay if you want to lock yourself into one vendor and their platform. Otherwise keep up the good Java work, please!
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#232740 - 07/09/2004 06:11
Re: C# / .Net
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
C# is okay if you want to lock yourself into one vendor and their platform.
http://www.go-mono.com/
Apart from System.Windows.Forms (which requires Wine), everything else I've tried just worked.
_________________________
-- roger
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#232741 - 07/09/2004 06:23
Re: C# / .Net
[Re: mschrag]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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I have been completely impressed with C#, and in the past I've pretty much hated everything MS has put out as far as development tools go. It's really well thought out and easy to work with; a pleasant suprise for me since I was dreading the transition.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#232742 - 07/09/2004 09:25
Re: C# / .Net
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5915
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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I have to put my tupence in as well. The VS.NET enviroment and C# particularly is the most complete set of dev tools I have ever used.
I know that MS built on a lot of ideas from other people to do it, but it is a very impressive achievement none the less.
_________________________
Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#232743 - 07/09/2004 11:19
Re: C# / .Net
[Re: mschrag]
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old hand
Registered: 09/01/2002
Posts: 702
Loc: Tacoma,WA
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Quote:
Gotta give it props .. I've been writing an app in C# this past weekend and it's pretty damn nice. It has all the niceties of Java + full access to the entire MS API set. Visual C# Express is also very impressive. Coming from Eclipse, the bar is set REALLY high as far as IDE's go and VC#E really seems to deliver on most of my expectations (the refactorings look to be very similar to Eclipse, which I can't live without now). Not to mention VC#E is fast as crap ... Eclipse is pretty snappy, but it's got NOTHING on Microsoft's IDE.
I'm still a Java guy at heart, but it really was an enjoyable experience.
Ever try Delphi.. it has all the advantages you mention and it's portable to Linux...
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#232744 - 07/09/2004 11:31
Re: C# / .Net
[Re: siberia37]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/09/2000
Posts: 2303
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Quote:
Ever try Delphi.. it has all the advantages you mention and it's portable to Linux...
One of my former coworkers was big into Delphi, so I've only seen it as he worked on it ... The native part of our system at work was written in it when he was there actually. It looked very good (in fact, didn't the guy who designed Delphi design C# also?). The only problem I had with it is that it's harder to find Delphi programmers than the alternatives, so later revs of that part of the system ended up being redone in C++. But overall I was impressed with Delphi.
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#232745 - 07/09/2004 11:35
Re: C# / .Net
[Re: Roger]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/09/2000
Posts: 2303
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Quote:
Apart from System.Windows.Forms (which requires Wine), everything else I've tried just worked.
This was something I was curious about ... Is there any graphics library defined as part of the C# core library? That is, would it be possible at all for someone to write something like Swing (the pure-Java UI library) in C#, or are the only graphics/windowing API's encapsulated in the Forms API? If it's totally in Forms, that is kind of unfortuante wrt C# and definitely an area where I think Java is better. Even though Swing has its flaws, that it exists is very nice -- I can deploy a GUI Java app to any of the Java-supported platforms and not really have to worry too much about it. But I don't know on the C# side, so maybe this is possible there as well?
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#232746 - 07/09/2004 11:38
Re: C# / .Net
[Re: mlord]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/09/2000
Posts: 2303
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Quote:
Otherwise keep up the good Java work, please!
Yeah, I'm not going anywhere on the Java side ... I just think it's nice to have a strong candidate when I DO need to write a native Windows app. Although, I'd rather have a nice DVD library available through Java, Sun is basically terrible at providing low level device API's (obviously a lot harder to do cross platform, since someone has to write the native layer, and they're probably completely different on every platform at that level).
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#232747 - 07/09/2004 12:38
Re: C# / .Net
[Re: mschrag]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
Is there any graphics library defined as part of the C# core library?
You mean a GUI library, rather than a graphics library, surely? I can use System.Graphics to create bitmaps, etc. from a console app.
In that case, no. The only GUI library defined by MS is Windows.Forms, which isn't supported on Mono without Wine. Mono does provide Gtk#, which might work on Windows -- I've not tried it.
Rumour has it that Windows.Forms is just a stopgap until Avalon takes off, anyway. However, given that Avalon is also rumoured to be being cut from Longhorn, who knows?
_________________________
-- roger
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#232748 - 07/09/2004 13:01
Re: C# / .Net
[Re: siberia37]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
Ever try Delphi.. it has all the advantages you mention and it's portable to Linux...
Delphi is by far the best development experience I've ever had, which is why I'd be considered a Delphi expert (I've worked with every version but Delphi 8). However, it is becomming more and more difficult to find jobs for Delphi programmers, not to mention Delphi 8 looks and feels just like Visual Studio .net. Making the switch from Delphi to C# has not been difficult at all, as a lot of the .net components are very remenicent of the VCL.
So after many years of blissfully working with Delphi, I'm throwing in the towel and moving to C#. It's a better language than Pascal, both are doing .net these days, and it's easier to find .net jobs than Delphi. I still miss the Borland editor, but for the most part I haven't been too dissapointed.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#232749 - 07/09/2004 13:06
Re: C# / .Net
[Re: mschrag]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
in fact, didn't the guy who designed Delphi design C# also?
Yes. People tend to equate C# with Java, but it's actually more reminicent of Delphi to me, even though the sytax is more Java (and therefore C)-like than Pascal-like. One of the big strengths of Delphi was how well thought out the VCL (visual component library) was. It was very extendable and solid oop. A lot of the concepts that Delphi was utliizing from day one (back before Win 95 even) are now found in C# and the .net framework.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#232750 - 07/09/2004 17:42
Re: C# / .Net
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5915
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
Rumour has it that Windows.Forms is just a stopgap until Avalon takes off, anyway. However, given that Avalon is also rumoured to be being cut from Longhorn, who knows?
Last I heard they were talking about the possibility of slipstreaming Avalon into a WinXP/WinDotNetServer service pack, ahead of Longhorn.
_________________________
Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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