#238715 - 23/10/2004 22:02
A bit too far...
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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I tend to lean towards the left side of moderate, so it won't surprise many to hear that I agree with most of what the left-leaning Guardian says about American politics. But even I thought last week's "write a letter to an undecided voter in Ohio" article was a little gauche, and today, the end of this op/ed bit has my jaw hitting the floor. I am in agreement with most of the rest of the piece, but what the hell is with the last sentence? Is there some subtle British humour angle that I'm not able to see with my Stars-and-Stripes colored glasses? Or is he really insinuating someone should assasinate Dubya if he wins the next election?
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#238716 - 23/10/2004 22:11
Re: A bit too far...
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Yeah, that's pretty messed up. And stupid on top of that. As bad as Bush is... I shudder to think how much WORSE Dick Cheney would be.
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#238717 - 23/10/2004 22:18
Re: A bit too far...
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Yeah, and if they do start shooting, let's hope they stop at Ted Stevens or Colin Powell, because after that, it's John Snow, Rummy, and Ashcroft.
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#238718 - 23/10/2004 22:27
Re: A bit too far...
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Yeah, that's a bit over the top.
About the only realistic thought I have as far as not just writing him off, is this: it's not inconsistent for someone who believes in the death penalty if he believes Bush is guilty of (some death penalty worthy crime).
I don't, for 2 reasons:
1) I've come around from my earlier beliefs, mostly. Life is a gift which despite any misuse we have no business taking away. I used to view the death penalty as the ultimate deterrent: dead people don't commit crimes. But it's possible to deter without this.
2) I think he's made some poor decisions, but I hesitate to even think of any as possessing that level of criminal intent.
But that's about it, and it's really tenuous.
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#238719 - 23/10/2004 22:36
Re: A bit too far...
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
Or is he really insinuating someone should assasinate Dubya if he wins the next election?
I don't know. Sounds that way, doesn't it? Of course, I, too, would really, really, really like the bad dream of GWB to magically disappear, so the occasional daydream about a fatal pretzel episode does not distress me in the least. But would I say that assassination is a good idea? No. Not a step forward in the march to a more perfect democracy, is it? Besides, there's Cheney 
I think assassination is really reserved for the scriptwriters of Terminator 9, wherein the GOP of 2063 send an Ollie North liquid metal robot back to the Palm Beach County of late October 2000 to mow down "likely-voter" retirees.
I pretty much agree with every other sentence in that Guardian article. While I am going to guess that he is being hyperbolic, I do wish he could have devised some other closer, but, given the Manchurian Candidate nature of the current circumstance, I am not quite sure what that would be.
_________________________
Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#238720 - 24/10/2004 08:09
Re: A bit too far...
[Re: tonyc]
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enthusiast
Registered: 06/03/2003
Posts: 269
Loc: Wellingborough, UK
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Quote:
what the hell is with the last sentence[?]
[...] is he really insinuating someone should assasinate Dubya if he wins the next election?
I think it was intended as a continuation of the satire from previous pieces - an ironic suggestion that problems with US politics should be dealt with the same way as the US deals with politics in other countries. Having said that, each article in the chain does seem to be attempting to outdo the preceding one in the poor taste department and I'd say that the editor has acted irresponsibly by permitting that edit.
[edit typo]
Edited by mdavey (24/10/2004 17:23)
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#238721 - 24/10/2004 16:18
Re: A bit too far...
[Re: mdavey]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
I'd say that the editor has acted irresponsibly by permitting that edit.
Especially given the recent Guardian Ohio voter sensation. I am pretty sure this John Wilkes Booth comment will make the rounds on US bombast radio. Of course, the folks who will get the most torqued about this aren't exactly undecided voters.
Bumper sticker spotted on Nissan pickup parked in front of nearby church: John Kerry (pictured wearing a beret) For President....of France!
_________________________
Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#238722 - 24/10/2004 16:50
Re: A bit too far...
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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The Guardian is written primarily for a UK readership. While our dark sense of humour is getting a little diluted (or politically corrected) I'm sure most Brits would still recognise the assasination reference to be a joke. Certainly those I showed it to thought it was quite amusing.
Rob
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#238723 - 24/10/2004 17:29
Re: A bit too far...
[Re: rob]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Thanks for the British cultural angle... I'm curious, though... Are you saying most Brits wouldn't bat an eyelash if there were an unpopular prime minister (let's call him Tony Blair) and The Guardian ran a similar piece implying Blair should be assassinated? If so, boy, you guys really are dark.
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#238725 - 24/10/2004 18:41
Re: A bit too far...
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Quote:
Are you saying most Brits wouldn't bat an eyelash if there were an unpopular prime minister (let's call him Tony Blair) and The Guardian ran a similar piece implying Blair should be assassinated?
There's a difference between running an article suggesting the PM be assassinated, and dropping in a one line joke about it. It isn't upsetting because it isn't meant to be taken literally.
Come on, I know you guys can get this, I've seen South Park!
Rob
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#238726 - 24/10/2004 18:55
Re: A bit too far...
[Re: tonyc]
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enthusiast
Registered: 06/03/2003
Posts: 269
Loc: Wellingborough, UK
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Quote:
Thanks for the British cultural angle... I'm curious, though... Are you saying most Brits wouldn't bat an eyelash
You need to remember that the UK papers live for sensationalism, so certainly we would bat an eyelash but that would be the intended effect of such a piece.
I am not aware of any UK paper that has actually inferred that Blair should be assasinated but in the last year they have claimed that David Kelly, the government weapons scientist, was killed by order of Tony Blair and that Blair is partially responsible for Ken Bigleys death and should be tried. Not just by the traditional tabloids but by the more respected papers too.
Edit: Remember, the "assasinate" is in reference to how the rest of the world perceives the US acting, so a better question would be how would the British people react if Al-Jazera ran a piece about Tony Blair being tried in a International court with an Iraqi Judge, for ordering British troups to take part in an illegal war. Now, several UK papers have already claimed that Blair has broken international law in this respect.
Edited by mdavey (24/10/2004 19:03)
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#238727 - 24/10/2004 19:08
Re: A bit too far...
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
Are you saying most Brits wouldn't bat an eyelash if there were an unpopular prime minister (let's call him Tony Blair) and The Guardian ran a similar piece implying Blair should be assassinated?
I doubt that the majority would think it was amusing, but I don't think there'd be much outrage (except among the rest of the press). Certainly if, as in this case, it was a "throw-away" comment at the end of a piece of op-ed.
One difference, however, is that we don't have a history of our PM's being assassinated, so this kind of comment would be unlikely to be made in the first place. In fact, no PM has been assassinated since Spencer Perceval, which was in 1812, and today's newspaper readers, even Guardian readers, are unlikely to recognise John Bellingham as readily as they would Oswald.
_________________________
-- roger
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#238728 - 24/10/2004 19:18
Re: A bit too far...
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Well, it seems the U.S. Secret Service isn't finding much humor in this situation, either.
I dunno, Rob, I can certainly appreciate dark humor, but there's nothing in that story that makes it sound like a joke. The rest of the piece rails against Bush, and then it ends with a call to would-be assassins.
Maybe the idea of Presidential assassination is taken more seriously over here because we've had 4 Presidential assassinations in our history, whereas the UK has only had one Prime Minister killed. Look, I agreed with almost every other word of that piece, right down to the 3rd-grade insults that the guy was tossing at Bush... But to evoke the names of former assassins is way out of line, even given the tawdry reputation of the UK press.
Edit: Yeah, what Roger said.
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#238729 - 24/10/2004 20:48
Re: A bit too far...
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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That Gurdian link now reads: The final sentence of a column in The Guide on Saturday caused offence to some readers. The Guardian associates itself with the following statement from the writer.
"Charlie Brooker apologises for any offence caused by his comments relating to President Bush in his TV column, Screen Burn. The views expressed in this column are not those of the Guardian. Although flippant and tasteless, his closing comments were intended as an ironic joke, not as a call to action - an intention he believed regular readers of his humorous column would understand. He deplores violence of any kind.". Quote:
Well, it seems the U.S. Secret Service isn't finding much humor in this situation, either.
I can't imagine that there's anything for them to prosecute, but I hope Mr. Brooker doesn't have his heart set on any Florida vacations or a trip to Yosemite.
_________________________
Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#238730 - 30/10/2004 12:24
Re: A bit too far...
[Re: tonyc]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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There was a reference to this is this week's NTK and I realised who they were talking about - Charlie Brooker, his comedy is of the severe satirical type. Some of his projects are TVGoHome, Unnovations and a current TV programme "Ban This Filth" which is pretty funny. The website (linked) gives you an idea of what the show is comprised of: "In your crusade, how much filth do you think you have to endure sitting through every week?"
I sit through up to 8 hours of filth every day, much of it Scandinavian. Gareth
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