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As a citizen of another country, I'm a little pissed off at the US political system

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I'm a little pissed off at the US political system

Quit bashing us!

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when I see senseless ramblings and what looks like real *hatred*

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I had to avoid this board years ago because of all the anti-american rhetoric that was being spouted

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Flame away...I won't be here to hear it.

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But the Right/Left-bashing is really sad and pathetic.

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As a citizen of another country, I'm a little pissed off at the US political system, specifically that the rest of the world has no say in who becomes the US president. I mean, the US is so open to controlling the political atmosphere in other countries, at the very least, and moving specific people in and out of power at the other end... It's only fair other countries get a say on who the world's supreme commander is, right?

I've been watching ABC for the past few hours. The electoral voting is a bizarre practice. But even more bizarre is Bush leading the popular vote. Wow. Campaigning to ban Gay marriage has sure paid off. Or perhaps it was promoting Cousin and Sibling marriage? It's a close call all around, and to me that just paints a bleaker picture of the US and (obviously) close to half its residents.

In the end I suppose it's all about picking one puppet over another. It's just that Kerry's ventriloquist is so much better.

Bruno

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I’m also glad the term marriage is being tightly defined and not…

Marrage – A union between a person or persons or anything(s) person(s) can screw.

Let’s call the above definition a Civil Union and all move on.

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(source)

The proposed amendments in Mississippi, Montana and Oregon refer only to marriage, specifying that it should be limited to unions of one man and one woman. The measures in Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Michigan, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma and Utah would ban civil unions as well.

The Ohio measure [is] considered the broadest of the 11 because it barred any legal status that "intends to approximate marriage,"

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I think that perhaps you are confusing forthright, entertaining debate with animosity. Nobody here is expecting to change anybody's opinions on these matters of religion and politics. But we're sure going to have a hell of a lot of fun trying, and that's really the point of the whole thing.

Agreed. I hardly ever feel that people on this BBS are "bashed", though ideas are certainly thrashed about quite a bit. Sometimes I get tired of reading the "Bush is evil" stuff from time to time, so I don't. Yes, there are times I skip over long posts on political topics because I'm just tired, but that's a choice I have. Most of the time I at least take pleasure in reading perspectives I don't hear often, and certainly not from sources that are credible. There is a lot here that simply doesn't make sense to me and I still struggle to figure out why people believe some of the things they do (and I know many say the same about me), but this is a unique place in which we can put flesh-and-blood people behind some of the ideas we've only ever heard through one filtered medium or another. It is very difficult for me to demonize the "other side" knowing that there are intelligent people who I respect holding tightly to those ideas.

Where this is all so invaluable to me is that I think we all want the same things, but we disagree at a fundamental level how to get there. I believe that faith in Jesus Christ is the key to true hope and peace, that the government should leave much of its social programs to the people, and that due to the fallen world we live in, sometimes violence is required to prevent more violence. But I also know people here who believe that religion is not necessary for hope and peace (and possibly even an agent against such pursuits), that the government should increase its role in meeting the needs of its people, and that violence is never necessary if you truly try to live at peace with your fellow man. It’s neat to be able to listen to other people talk about how they think we ought to get something accomplished, because it seems none of us has it exactly right.

In short, I don’t agree with or embrace much of the things said here, but I am glad to know the people behind the words- perhaps by understanding each other better we can make better sense of how to get those things we all want. Ok, now let’s join hands and sing . . .

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I think that the state should be concerned only with civil union or equivalent aspects of marriage, that is, support, inheritance, taxes etc; religious aspects of marriage (if there are those in a particular case) should be exclusively between those married and their church/religious community/whatever - their God(s), after all; the state has no business regulating those

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Separate but equal is inherently unequal.

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Flame away...I won't be here to hear it.

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Yes, Civil Union <> Marriage.

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that the government should leave much of its social programs to the people

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The problem is that the above examples are all voluntary and rely on the personal decision of the giver. When the government taxes its people to fund social programs, you’re saying "you don’t care about people enough to help them out, so I'm going to make you." To me, the root of the problem is that people don't care enough to help their fellow man, and that's what really needs to be addressed more than anything else. We need to strive to heighten personal responsibility for our fellow man and move away from simply taking the money needed to do it.

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I have been enormously impressed with the rationality, civility, intelligence, and lack of personal attack expressed in these posts that you characterize as "bashing".

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I had to avoid this board years ago because of all the anti-american rhetoric that was being spouted, and now I'm going to avoid it again

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While the heat of the debates are often palpable, the general lack of personal animus is really remarkable, and a tribute to the general level of civility on the board.